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Author Topic: .410...Love/Hate  (Read 1879 times)

satchel

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.410...Love/Hate
« on: December 24, 2012, 09:26:14 PM »
I truly like the idea of the .410 cartridge.  I like the light recoil, I like the small size, I like the potentially inexpensive reloading.  I have fond memories from my childhood of hunting squirrels with my stepdad's old stevens .22/.410 over-under.  Well I bought a used .410 single shot and wanted to chase some squirrels with it so a few weeks back I did some hunting and could not hit a single squirrel.  I don't consider my self a top shot or anything but hey...its a shotgun so the idea is I shouldn't need to be a top shot right?  Anywho  I went to my local range and started looking at some patterns and at 30yds with #6 shot my pattern had gaps wide enough to miss an elephant(slight over exaggeration).   Had I not had cardboard behind my target I would have only seen 3 pellets in my target and I know I am not being scientific but I just don't know if its up to snuff for small game like I used to have thought.  My gun barrel is 24in long so I figure I should be seeing tighter patterns but i may be wrong. 

Do any of yall use the .410 as your primary critter getter?

Should I be limiting my shots within 20yds max? 

Haven't tried slugs yet but does anybody here use them for deer (if so any tips)?

It's a neat round but if I can't find a more broad purpose for it I may trade it in on something else as I like for all my guns to serve me well across the board as critter getters and potentially defensive tools.  Not trying to knock the .410 but merely wanting a consensus from yall for insight on the old round.   
« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 10:27:41 PM by satchel »
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boone123

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2012, 09:59:37 PM »
I think it need a choke, or you need to get a new 410. Now you know why it was for sale...
Talk to a good gunsmith, and go from there.

I don't do shotguns, but thats where I would start.

satchel

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2012, 10:25:58 PM »
Maybe but I don't even recall seeing a .410 with a choke tube didn't think companies made those, I may need to look into that!  Thanks for the reply.
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glenn

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2012, 03:20:06 AM »
Look for marking on the barrel ... should have one of the following markings;
Cyl
Imp Cyl
Mod  or  M
Full  or F

The choke is made into the barrel tube ... it's just a constriction toward the end ... not an attachment like you see on some modern guns that the choke tubes can be changed out.

Your choke may be "Shot out" (worn away / expanded .. by shooting)  ... or it may be one of the "looser" chokes ... cyl or improved cyl.

Here's some info I found on the web;

There is a standard for 410 choke constriction the same as for any other bore. Using .410" as the nominal bore diameter constriction would follow thus:
Skeet- .005"
IC- .008"
LM- .010"
Mod- .012"
IM- .014"
Full- .018"

Grab a digital caliper & measure inside the end of your barrel.  Full choke should measure .392"

I have a Solar Powered 12 barreled machine gun that gets 700 miles per gallon that's also a metal detector & I can ride it to work ... if I had a job. I'm now selling beads & candles on Ebay for a living.  I also have a flashlight that I can weld with & send Morse Code messages to the Mars Rover.

glenn

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2012, 03:35:16 AM »
Here's a pretty good choke chart ... although they don't include my favorite .. the 16 ga.

http://www.hallowellco.com/choke_chart.htm
I have a Solar Powered 12 barreled machine gun that gets 700 miles per gallon that's also a metal detector & I can ride it to work ... if I had a job. I'm now selling beads & candles on Ebay for a living.  I also have a flashlight that I can weld with & send Morse Code messages to the Mars Rover.

satchel

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2012, 10:22:13 AM »
Glenn,  Thanks for the specs...I don't own a micrometer but can borrow one from work next week so those numbers will come in handy.  My gun actually says its an Improved cylinder on the side of the barrel but as you said it could of been expanded out which is something I didn't really consider.  The shotgun I use is made by "Investarms" made in Italy...the name sounds cheezy but it's a really neat shotgun.
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rhett

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2012, 10:49:56 AM »
satchel, is the attached picture similar to your shotgun?
Investarms seems to still be in business, http://www.investarm.it/eng-monocanna.html
Manuals for download can be gotten from that link.


satchel

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2012, 07:32:36 PM »
Rhett, that be the one or one like it anyways...the furniture on mine isn't as nice.   Thanks for the link.
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glenn

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2012, 07:40:47 PM »
Imp Cyl is pretty much a scattergun ... you'll not get much yardage out of IC in a .410

Would be good for slugs for deer.

I have a Solar Powered 12 barreled machine gun that gets 700 miles per gallon that's also a metal detector & I can ride it to work ... if I had a job. I'm now selling beads & candles on Ebay for a living.  I also have a flashlight that I can weld with & send Morse Code messages to the Mars Rover.

keyman

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2012, 03:04:27 AM »
I have an H&R single shot .410 that I use alot because it's so light and easy to pack, but it's a full choke.  I don't find myself shooting over 25 yds with it very often honestly.  Always hunt squirrels with a .22.  My buddy has a pump action improved cylinder Mossberg .410 he uses for a primary.  He kills bunnies up close, drops birds just fine, even killed a doe with it this year.  Next time we have them out I'll have to compare it's pattern to mine, but if I remember it seemed pretty wide even at 10 yds with 8 shot.  You'll probably have to enjoy that gun hunting critters at closer distances. 

cfsharry

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2012, 10:45:27 AM »
Thirty yards is a long way to expect a dense enough shot pattern to reliably take out a squirrel sized target with a .410 in my opinion. Pellet energy is not the problem, number of pellets in the load is. The only sporting shotgun I own is a side by side Springfield .410 choked full and full. The gun was a gift from my uncle to my mother when she and dad moved to WI after WW2. I do not believe it was new at the time. It has reliably taken rabbits, squirrels, pheasants, grouse and woodcock. Great gun; light, nimble and quick but best used to about twenty yards. Would I use a .410 for deer? Only if my only other choice was a rock.

therevjay

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2012, 05:07:17 PM »
cfsharry beat me to it. I think he has been reading my mind. I was going to say exactly the same thing.  :o
"I have no respect for a man who can spell a word only one way".....Mark Twain

glenn

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2012, 05:16:59 PM »
Side by side Springfield .410     I would  LOVE  to have one !!!!!!!!!
can we see a picture of it ?
I have a Solar Powered 12 barreled machine gun that gets 700 miles per gallon that's also a metal detector & I can ride it to work ... if I had a job. I'm now selling beads & candles on Ebay for a living.  I also have a flashlight that I can weld with & send Morse Code messages to the Mars Rover.

uncle_lee

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2012, 06:59:29 PM »
God, Country, & Flag

glenn

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2012, 07:26:01 PM »
Sure is a cute little thing ... but they sure are proud of it !

I have a Solar Powered 12 barreled machine gun that gets 700 miles per gallon that's also a metal detector & I can ride it to work ... if I had a job. I'm now selling beads & candles on Ebay for a living.  I also have a flashlight that I can weld with & send Morse Code messages to the Mars Rover.

ArmedPatriot

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2013, 08:52:20 PM »
I grew up with a 410 single shot. Tried to hunt with it a LOT but never got a thing. Always did with my Marlin 22 though.
I bought a pump 410 a few years back...same thing, couldnt hit a thing with it. Traded it in for a Mossberg 535 12 gauge that doesnt ever seem to miss. At a decent range a squirrel will have between 5 and 10 shot in it which has yet to fail to knock it out of the tree and have it quite dead by the time it hits the ground.
Nothing but 12 gauge for me as far as shotguns go.

millsriver

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2013, 08:11:58 AM »
When I was growing up in Northern Virginia, we had a summer place in the mountains of West Virginia nearby. The guy who looked after the place for us had nine kids and lived in a cabin with no indoor plumbing,  running water or electricity.  He kept his family in meat all year round with a single shot breaking .410 shotgun; including deer with slugs. He taught me that outstanding hunting and shooting skills (along with need) are just as important as which firearm you own. The .410 was the only firearm that he ever owned.
When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.
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cfsharry

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2013, 03:55:40 PM »
Millsriver,
Sounds like you had a great instructor. A tool is only as good as the man using it. If he put meat on the table for a family of eleven with a .410, he was a master at his craft. No better teacher.

PJ Garrison

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2013, 05:59:33 PM »
Quote
When I was growing up in Northern Virginia, we had a summer place in the mountains of West Virginia nearby. The guy who looked after the place for us had nine kids and lived in a cabin with no indoor plumbing,  running water or electricity.  He kept his family in meat all year round with a single shot breaking .410 shotgun; including deer with slugs. He taught me that outstanding hunting and shooting skills (along with need) are just as important as which firearm you own. The .410 was the only firearm that he ever owned.

Yes, and eskimos can take down polar bears with .22 shorts.  But it's not reccomended practice. ::)

The .410 is a weak and feeble shotgun round.  It fine for small birds, and small prests around the farm (when you need to minimise colateral damage), but it lacks serious power for larger birds and animals.  For birds, it's considered something of an expert's gun because it's difficult to shoot it well.  For animals, it's considered inhumane on most things larger than squirrel size.

Ah, but what about slugs, you say?

The slugs aren't very powerful , either.  They're about equal to a .38 special when fired from a full length barrel.  That's not exactly a death ray, and it wouldn't be legal for deer in most places. 

As I mentioned before, the .410 is a good pest-gun caliber for the farm when you don't want noise or excessive destruction.  Works fine for small *pest* species of birds (pigeons, starlings, etc), rats, snakes, and other wimpy critters at close range.

Quote

Quoted from an article on shotgun gauges Rick Rappe

.410 Bore

The smallest of the commonly encountered shotgun sizes, the four-ten is suitable for game such as rabbits, squirrels and some smaller close range bird hunting. Because four-ten guns tend to be lighter weight and the small sized cartridge generates less recoil or "kick", it is often recommended as a beginners gun with which to learn shooting fundamentals. However, many disagree with this approach citing that the very small shot charge makes effective hitting of the target more difficult and can discourage the beginner. This writer tends to agree, and recommends that the beginner start with a larger gauge with the four-ten reserved for specialty applications or for use of experts.

.410 ammunition comes in 2 1/2 inch and 3" lengths, with nearly all guns capable of firing both. The 3" holds more shot and is therefore a better hunting choice.

28 Gauge

Still comparatively uncommon, the 28 "kicks like a .410 and hits like a 20". For years, the only reason the gauge did not completely disappear was because of a skeet shooting application. It is the smallest gauge many feel practical for bird hunting, and in a trim and fast handling shotgun is a delight to use on such game as quail. Drawbacks are limited availability of ammo, an inadequacy at longer ranges, and insufficient shell capacity to handle larger shot, including steel.   

Hope that helps!

cfsharry

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Re: .410...Love/Hate
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2013, 07:46:44 PM »
PJ,
From the tone of your contribution I gather you to be an arm chair expert rather than having formed your opinion from actual experience with the .410. If you had a working knowledge of the .410 you would understand it to be neither week nor feeble. The only shortcoming of the .410 is in pellet count not pellet energy transmitted to the target. What that means is, if you lack competence, move to a gauge throwing more lead down range. If you can shoot, this little gun will easily and efficiently take small game out to twenty yards. This opinion is experience based. It is also shared by many long dead and eaten rabbits, squirrels, grouse, pheasants and woodcock.

 

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