Problems With 32 Guardian

[crufflersteve]

I recently bought a 32 Guardian. I've been to the range once and it was horrifying. I had S&B & Winchester ammo and there were failures on most rounds. The most common were stove pipes but there were about 20% failing to go into chamber. I assumed that there would be a breakin period but this is excessive. The spring feels quite heavy for a .32.  

   

   The trigger was also a major concern. It was really, really hard. When I got home I measured it with a gauge. It was all over the place but the lightest was 14 pounds and the highest almost 19! The manual says 10 pounds.  

   

   I sent an email to the fellow who handles Guardians but never heard back. To me, this seems like it should go back to the factory.  

   

   Steve

   (I'm new here so I originally dumped this into another thread.)

[unclenunzie]

The trigger pull is heavy by design, and it stacks a lot just before breaking.  If you get stove pipe on the last round in the magazine, that is normal expected behavior.  The recoil spring(s) are heavy because this is a blowback action gun, not a locked breech design.

   

   You could try cleaning it up real good and oiling the trigger/hammer parts, as well as the slide and barrel contact areas.  

   

   It's also very tiny and hard to hold on to, so you may need to grip harder.  Personally I also have a brand new guardian 32 just last week, test fired in April of 2009.  I have had issues with mine but have smoothed up some roughness and will be trying Fiocchi ball ammo soon, and also watching my grip.

   

   I think if you get some snap caps and dry fire it a bunch, the trigger will smooth up some.  The manual actually warns against dry fire without a snap cap or spent casing to cushion the firing pin.  Otherwise it could break.

   

   My ammo was mostly the cheap PRVI stuff, which is filthy with black soot and is not recommendable.  I'm switching to Fiocchi because I've seen lots of forum threads where it's recommended.  Just comparing the apparent quality of the brass case between Fiocchi and PRVI is revealing.  But I have not taken the Fiocchi to the range yet, just came in today.

   

   good luck

[sirbarkalot]

Fiocchi is top notch and my first choice when I can get it.  Works flawlessly in my Guardian.

   

   Barky

[antares_b]

In addition to what Unclenunzie said, you can try polishing the feed ramp, if you trust yourself to do a little gunsmithing.

   

   If you want to have NAA service the gun, call the 800 number and ask for Jessica. Speak with her directly. If the gun was made less than two years ago, you shouldn't have to pay for shipping.

[wyn]

Geez, another problem with a guardian, and this is NAA's website where most people have good things to say about NAA products. I am glad that people are writing about their frustrations with their Guardians. whenever I read an article praising something I always wnat to know what don't you like about it and its shortcomings. I was thinking of venturing over to NAA semi autos, but I don't think I will. I don't like what I have been hearing. I am not sure I could ever feel comfortable trusting one when I needed it.

[unclenunzie]

I dunno, being as how NAA has a rather small footprint in the gun market, and this forum is likewise compratively limited in membership, I wouldn't base a broad decision on just this myself.  I've read posts on well-established general gun forums which largely praise the guardians as reliable.  Ultmately we all make and live with our own decisions, but if there's one thing I've learned over the last couple years buying guns, they sometimes need smoothing out.  Especially small ones.  My first pocket gun was an LCP - and out of the box it had lots of issues.  I tested and woirked on it until I was satisfied it just would not extract reliably.  Ruger was good about it as I'm sure NAA would be if needed, replacing my slide assembly.  My LCP is now flawless with factory ammo 700+ rounds since.  I see no reason why NAA would not perform with the same level of support.

[amstaff]

I am also an owner of a Naa 32 acp guardian which I brought to the range and fired several days ago along with several other weapons.  Since I purchased this auto, I purchased the custom slide, the gutter snipe sites. and the kingwood grips.  Needless to say, I put a few dollars in this gun. At the range I was also disappointed.  Numerous stove pipes, failures to eject and excessive trigger pull.  The purpose of purchasing this weapon was was strictly for pocket carry.  Now I question the feasibility of carrying this weapon.  As a former LEO with 30+ years I would have to say if this was a department issued weapon with reliability issues such as these, they would be returned immediately.  These are not target weapons...they are for self defense and as a result,should be held to a higher standard.

[coopercdrkey]

For every post here about some product deficiency, there are three or four rave reviews about how professionally NAA stands behind their LIFETIME GUARANTEE.

   

   That's not to say that Quality Control can just take an extended coffee break, and deal with problems after the fact.  I would bet that every pistol that is returned for service is reported to the QC Manager.

   

   There are a lot of very experienced members on this board, many of them former LEO's, who have nothing but good things to say about the Guardian.  By all means, test the bejeezus out of it, and if there are problems, let NAA do their thing.

   

   Then, if you're still dissatisfied, I guess the Board needs to know about it.

[westerly1965]

Don't have a Guardian .32.  But I do have a Guardian 380.  It's a reliable gun...I had some break in issues with it but they were minor.  I do occasionally get a stove pipe on the last round but this is normal with this type of feed system.  I dunno everyone is entitled to their own opinion on anything but I like the Guardian a lot not only is it sexy and heavy for a small gun ( I hate plastic guns) but it shoots very dependably.....just my .02

[wyn]

Remebering back to my statistics days, you can take a random sample from a population and extrapolate it out to larger numbers. Sure there are some who will sing the praises about the guardian, but statistically speaking I bet they have alot of problems. 3 people in this post alone have probs. What I am trying to say is why would you take a chance buying a gun hearing about these shortcomings. In the hope of getting one that works flawlessly? How could you ever trust it? I don't think I will be buying a guardian unless there is a money back guarantee.

[coopercdrkey]

OK-  Don't

[crufflersteve]

I'm a bit upset that that others are having problems. I'll call NAA service tomorrow when I have all the numbers.

   

   I have one pocket pistol, a P3AT. When I first got it, it had a lot of FTF's. Under my 10X loupe the feed ramp looked like a gravel road. I polished it till it had a nice slick shine and the gun has been flawless since.

   

   I wanted a second pistol and got the NAA based on all the great reviews. Guns so well reviewed can't be bad but QC can slip up. I'm a QA engineer to pay for my guns and I work with the QC guys. NAA couldn't be in business with a high failure rate so I assume mine needs a factory visit.

   

   When I got it, I disassembled it with the manual, cleaned it and put it back together. The finishing on it was first rate so I was really surprised by my range experience.

   

   I'll post more as I find out. I'm glad I didn't buy any extras yet since this won't be a carry pistol until I have full faith in it.

   

   Steve

[grayelky]

Remember every gun is just a piece of machinery, and as such needs time to beak in. Once the parts polish themselves against each other, most all of them will smooth out. It would be wonderful if they came that way, but none of them do. I won't trust a gun until I have at least 100 flawless rounds through it, and feel better with 200.

   

   You seem to be no stranger to handguns, so I suspect you are aware the leading cause of issues with small autos is failing to maintain a proper grip ("limp wristing"). Good luck with your Guardian. Hang in there, it will smooth out.

[crufflersteve]

You need a firm grip with any pistols but with the mouse guns I call it the death grip. I don't mess with a Weaver stance but do the turret so there can't be any motion without knocking me over. It works fine for the P3AT.

   

   I'm still concerned with trigger pull. I've done a few hundred dry fires with snap caps but is still in the 14 to 18 # range.

   

   Steve

[sirbarkalot]

I don't find that unacceptable.  But I am an old double action revolver guy.  Fail to fire, feed, extract or eject is another matter.  Mine does none of those, and I EXPECT a heavy trigger pull.  That is why I feel safe with it in my pocket with a round in the chamber.  I would NEVER carry a Glock that way.

   

   Barky

[heyjoe]

Besides cleaning, lubricating, using quality ammo and holding a tight enough grip to avoid limp wristing, i dont feel that the customer should have to do the fluff and buff to get the firearm to be reliable. That is why i never bought a keltec. When i got my guardian back in the last millenium there was no talk or print for that matter about a break in period. Now there is. I dont find that acceptable. Put a magazine through it before it leaves the factory and cut down on the number of guns that need to be returned. This isnt an ipod we are talking   about here, its something that we have to be able to trust our life to.

[gcwimmer]

I carry all of my double action only with a round in the chamber; Guardian 32, Seecamp 380, and Glock 27 in a pocket holster that covers the trigger, I feel perfectly safe.

[sirbarkalot]

People jumping out of airplanes, bunji jumping, diving with sharks, cave diving, free rock climbing, parasailing, sailing around the world in small boats alone, and many other dangerous activities may "feel" perfectly safe as well.  That does not mean they are.  It just means they think they are.  

   

   If you feel safe, by all means do it.  I was not trying to stop you, and I know the Glock people are almost fanatical about their Glocks.  

   

   Please don't take the items said in conversation as though one board member is trying to tell another board member what to do.  We are just discussing and passing opinions of what WE think.  Like you just did, and I respect your right to do whatever legal thing you want.

   

   I have spoken with people who use original style single actions, and insist on loading all 6 rounds and having a live round under the hammer with the hammer on the "safety" (first notch) saying "that is what it is there for".  That is OK too, as long as I am not in range, I don't care.  Dangerous behavior should not be forced on others, but you can do it all you want.  OK by me.  

   

   No offense was intended and I was not looking for a fight.  Just talking about heavy Guardian trigger  pulls.

   

   Barky

[chopprs]

I can understand the others but why not the Glik with one in the tube. They have been thoroughly tested and found safe to do this.  

   Is it because of the design or because of the peeps holding them?

[solocanoe]

To the OP -sorry you had trouble. I'd send it back after you talk to NAA directly.

   

   As I said my Guardian 32 thread over and over...I was shocked at the tightness of my new guardian when I got it...compared to my experiences with the used one I had before and loved.

   

   I never had a problem of feeding or firing - new or old gun...but the new one sure did "feel" a lot better after a few hundred rounds.

   

   I'd talk to NAA first hand if it was me.

[sirbarkalot]

Chopprs:

   

   context:  No problem with chambered Glock in holster.

   We were talking pocket carry, and my concern with the Glock in the pocket without a holster is the 3/8" trigger travel (that is all that it takes) and 3.5 lb trigger pull.

   

   I was only making a comparison about the long heavy pull on the Guardian is there on purpose because it is intended as a pocket gun.  

   

   Barky

[crufflersteve]

I left all the paperwork home so I'll call Monday. I did check the trigger. After a lot of dry firing with snap caps it has stabilized at 15 pounds. It had been 14 to 18 originally. That is still absolutely unacceptable. The specs say 10 pounds which is heavy but I can deal with that. The NYC Cop trigger is 8.5 pounds!

   Steve

[bud]

I have a problem with spending that much money on a pistol, then have to spend a couple hundred dollars on it for ammo to break it in. I agree with Heyjoe on his post!

   I guess that is another reason why I like revolvers.

[chopprs]

Aaahh!Gotcha Woofy. I must agree......

[gonzoman1]

Ive had a lot of problems with my .32 Guardian as well...The mag with the pinky extension wont feed a full mag of ANYTHING. The other mag will stovepipe (mid-mag) about once every third mag, which is still unacceptable if I were to carry this gun in any capacity. Win White Box seems to work the "best", but again, we are not talking Glock reliability here. Love the gun in theory, but I'm not giving up my J Frame or PM9 any time soon...

[antares_b]

On mine, the mag with the pinky extension partially ejected itself often, which caused malfunctions. NAA tightened the mag release, which solved the problem but inhibited the drop-free function.  

   

   A while back, someone on this forum asked whether tightening the mag release is a simple matter of turning the screw on the back side of it. No one ever gave an answer, but that seems logical.

[gonzoman1]

+1 with the pinky mag, kept popping out but will still stovepipe when it didn't...I know NAA would fix the issues (hopefully) if I sent it to them, but its such a hassle that I heven't gotten around to it. Since we are being honest, all three of my NAA guns have had issues. My companion and LR mini have been sent out to NAA for repairs, and my LR mini still kicks out the cylinder pin every 25 rounds or so, making it inoperable. My companion still has light strike issues as well. Great company, I just wish MY guns worked like they were supposed to. Like I said, I'll take my J Frame (even over my PM9) if I knew for a fact I was going to have to use it when out and about. Hurts like hell, but doesn't complain, just works.

[wyn]

Heyjoe said that we aren't talking ipods here. I agree and by the way my ipod has worked perfectly since the first day. You shouldn't have to do gunsmithing on a gun to get it to run right. I don't have the skills to work on my own guns. I also don't have the time to go through a lengthy break in session shooting several hundred rounds through it. I think it is funny that a gun that is supposed to protect you, may or may not work properly, but an ipod designed for nothing extraordinary works perfect ALL the time.

[westerly1965]

It does seem that most of the complaints I hear on the Guardian are on the .32.  I have no working xp with the .32 but I do know that my .380 works great and I rarely hear complaints about the .380.  Maybe its the caliber?  I dunno just a thought.

[gcwimmer]

"A while back, someone on this forum asked whether tightening the mag release is a simple matter of turning the screw on the back side of it. No one ever gave an answer, but that seems logical."

   

   No, the screw is more of a lock/unlock cam that locks the magazine release into the frame. It is the length of the button grips the magazine.

[bigfish]

I have owned my Guardian 32 acp for less than a year. It has been back to the factory twice for fte and misfires. Went to range yesterday with 100 rounds of fiocchi FMJ in the red box. No problems at all, this stuff works real nice. Yes the trigger pull is heavy , but it should be. My Guardian is a keeper.

[jamesw]

I have had my Guardian 32acp for almost 3 years. ALWAYS in front pocket in homemade leather holster.NEVER any problems.  WW white box Silvertips, Golddot, American Eagle, Remington and LOTS of handloads.  Completely reliable,just like a Timex watch. ( Am I dating myself?) Can't use the pinky extension tho,ring finger places too much pressure on it and magazine won't stay fully seated. Had problems with the 380 acp version but the problems were ME not the gun.    Will

[crufflersteve]

The factory did fix the FTF problem. I put 50 rounds through it without any problems. I'm just not sure about this gun. The trigger pull is still 14 pounds and the mag release is way too large. It's hard to grip it without dropping the mag. I'm sorry to say this but it makes me appreciate Kel-Tec more.

   Steve

[antares_b]

I understand the predicament. I wanted to keep mine despite its unreliability, but I realized that its only purpose was concealed carry; it was too unpleasant-shooting to be considered a fun range gun, and it was too expensive to serve as nothing more than an heirloom-quality occupier of real estate in my gun safe. For me, the only viable option was to trade it in for a reliable pocket auto. (Yes, that would be a Kel-Tec.)

[lohman446]

The unfortunate? thing I have found in the pocket 32 / 380 niche is that the plastic guns (keltec, diamondback (no personal experience), and LCP) are the baseline for semi-autos.  The more expensive and "nicer" guns all seem to be lacking something on them.