Anyone feel like I do?

[wyn]

I like the top break it looks awesome. I just can't spend almost $500 on a .22. Pre order special is $449, my dealer charges $50 transfer fee, $25 would be paid by NAA, $20 shipping and handling, my dealer charges sales tax on top of it and $5 background check. Totaling over $500. I bought my Smith and wesson 638 .38 caliber for $465 out the door. I really like the top break but I don;t see myself getting one unless the price comes down dramatically.

[sirbarkalot]

You need a new dealer........................

[snubsforme]

I'm with you man.

   

   I guess I don't want one very much, the price tag is way over the top.  I'm just as thrilled about the Wasp and its price is only $244.

   

   If the price was $350 I'd buy one.  It won't ever be that so I guess I'll never have one.

   

   But I am enjoying reading all the posts of our forum members that are so tickled with their ordering and waiting for their guns.  

   

   It's called Vicarious; "participation in the experience or feelings of another".

[jtartam]

I understand that they will be in Gun Shops shortly..Davidisons etc.

[coopercdrkey]

I do not want a Break Top, even though I think it is a beautiful specimen of custom manufacture.  So I guess I'm with you, at least in a way.

   

   Just remember, it's a good thing that not everyone wants a BT.  If everyone in the NAA-owning world craved a BT, and there were only 500 to go around, what do you think would happen to that "excessive" price point?!?!

   

   It's like the little island I live on.  It's not for everybody, but we don't have room for everybody!

[ricart]

Wow Wyn,

   What State do you live in?  How does the sales tax come in on an item already paid for unless you live in UT?  It is possible your dealer  is a little upset at the way NAA does the "early bird" sales.  As it was put to me, this "special" cuts out the dealer because of the lower than MSRP to the NAA forum.  So, guess many dealers want to make up with the transfer fees for their loss on the sale.  Having at one time worked in a gun store, and knowing the percentage mark up VS overhead, I really can't blame some dealers for "sticking it to the early birds".

[grayelky]

The neat thing about the dealer transfer fees is, you can change dealers. I don't understand why he is charging sales tax on something bought in a different state (presuming you are not in Utah) nor why he is charging a $5.00 background check fee - unless that is normal and customary for your state. In GA, the dealer is not charged a fee to do the background check, but I know of one somewhat large sporting goods store, known for their low prices, that does charge a $5.00 fee for back ground checks. It is just their way of making some of the money back they don't charge on the sticker price.

   

   As to the BT, I am getting one, but I had to do some soul searching before I talked me into it. It is not one of the better financial decisions I have ever made. I fully understand where you are coming from.

[wyn]

It really doesn't matter which dealer i go to in my area they all charge $50 for a new gun transfer. Some charge $25 for a used gun transfer and 1 dealer won't even do a transfer if it is a gun he can get. I live in Florida and they ALL charge $5 for a background check, I have even heard of some dealers in the area charging $10 for the check. Legally I believe they are able to charge tax on the service of transferring the gun, even if you bought it in a different state. They usually charge 6% on the total of the gun. With all these charges it pushes the price well over $500. This price moves it into a whole new category competing with other firearms. I can buy 2 new non top break guns cheaper than the price of one top break. I like the top break, I think it is pretty cool, and I hope the people who ordered one get it and like it, but really I would just like the price to come down or just see it fade away.

[45flint]

"but really I would just like the price to come down or just see it fade away."  That statement makes no sense to me.  Why would you just want it to fade away just because a gun is priced out of your buying range.  I would argue that this gun is a bargain.  You are comparing it with your simple uncomplicated NAA revolvers which it is not. I love my Earl and I spent over $300 on it.  In comparison it is not close to the gun the breaktop is.  For another $150 I am getting a breaking barrel, a moving extractor, a locking device capable of holding the barrel down and tight even when firing a magnum 22.  I think it will be one of the best gun purchases I have made.

   It would be interesting to me to see what gun you would rather have for $450.  

   Steve

[wyn]

Yup that's right I have no use for it at that price. Guns I would rather have for $450 are a centennila J frame from smith, a Charter Arms bulldog, a LCP. Lots of other guns for $450 I would rather have. Yes just because a gun is out of my price range makes sense to me why i would want it to fade away. Not gonna buy it at that price so what do I care? If you are happy with it fine, hope you enjoy it. I think NAA would be better off filling their niche of affordable, reliable, effective self defense guns.

[grayelky]

If the going rate is $50, then you are kinda stuck on that one. I don't understand a dealer charging less for a used gun, other than it being a subtle way of him letting you know he is unhappy you are buying a new gun elsewhere. Why do the transfer then? He is not obligated to do so, and only does it as a courtesy for a potential customer. I picked up a GOOD customer because the pawn shop he was using to for his transfers went from $25.00 to 20% of what he paid for the gun he bought on line. Never mind the other $3000 he spent that year at the shop on new guns. That is why I do transfers- as a service for customers, not because it is profitable. At $50.00 each, I would not mind doing 10 or 20 a day!

   

   I understand your feeling on the BT and preferring to spend money on other guns. I have been buying/selling guns for over 40 years, and have pretty much what I want. I still had to so some soul searching to buy the Break Top. I would REALLY LOVE to have sequential serial numbered BTs, as I have 2 sons to leave them to when I am gone, but it's not something I can justify to me.

[wyn]

Grayelky, thanks for your post. I am not trying to disparage the breaktop, it looks nice and it is very cool. It just isn't worth it to me to pay that much when there are so many other guns at the same price. I don't wish NAA bad, I love their minis and currently own 5 of them. I just think they are moving themselves up into competing with other guns at that price range. For those who want to spend the money, congrats I hope you like them. I just want to see NAA fulfilling their niche of affordable, reliable, effective self defense guns, so after the inital run of 500 is made and sold, I really don't mind if they stop making them.

[silvershooter]

Wyn, I'm sure the NAA business model includes the continuation of a strong base built around affordable minis and CCW's like the Pug and B.W.

   

   They're just doing a trial run at branching out into a more select market. I'm sure they would sell the B.T. for under $400 if they could; but there are many who can and will buy at the higher price. 2 or 3 years ago when my job was more secure I might have bought one too.

   

   No worries, we still have the other models and there's always the option of accessorizing a pug/bw/mini by changing the grips or something: it becomes "almost" like a new gun at a fraction of the price.

[heyjoe]

i would have bought a break top if the shells actually were ejected when opened as other break tops do. I didnt see the point of getting one that only lifts them part way. Maybe long rifle would have been a better way to go as far as being able to eject the shorter shells.

[ephraim]

I already have a Smith cent."J'airweight, Beretta,etc. as do many others. The BT is an addition not a substitute.It's not supposed to take the place of some other guns. It's a niche gun, plain and simple. As far as the price is concerned, you get what you pay for. A cheap price is usually a cheap gun.

   E!

[stungun]

It would be ILLEGAL for your dealer to charge INTER-STATE tax on an item he did not sell you, when he's only allowed to collect INTRA-STATE tax on items that he sells you.

   

   It's that simple.  Tell him that you contacted the FBI and they want to speak with him.

[theysayimnotme]

The People's Demokratik Republik of Kalifornia REQUIRES the dealers to charge sales tax on such items & the top sales tax rate can be nearly 10%.

   $50 dealer's fee is something we can only dream of. It would more likely range from $75 to $125. Then there is the $25.00 DROS fee & the $25

   handgun user's test fee. The total could be well over $600.00

   Of course it really doesn't matter since we can't inport the top breal into Kalfornia.

   The only exception would be a law enforcement officer. He could then decide he doesn't want it & legally sell it to anyone who can legally buy a handgun but then there would be more transfer fees.

[wyn]

I understand you get what you pay for, but are you calling a Smith J frame, a Charter Arms Bulldog, or a Ruger LCP cheap? All these I can buy cheaper than the break top. As far as a niche gun they already have them. The top break is just a new design in an already filled niche market.

[coopercdrkey]

First, I tend to agree with your "niche gun" comment.  Certainly the biggest NAA fan on the board would agree that, for the same money, there are other, maybe better, pistols for CCW and self defense.  We buy, and carry, NAA's because we like them and like the company.

   

   I own three NAA mini revolvers at this time, and carry one or another every day.  When I round up the bucks for my Black Widow, it will become my (semi) permanent carry, and my other pistols will become, in effect, clollectible "niche" pistols.

   

   Now, about the Break Top-  Of course it's a niche gun.  (I'll use your term, although I prefer to call them by the correct term, "pistol").  It's a niche gun produced by a manufacturer of niche guns.  So is the Wasp, and so will be the other pieces released either as new full line products, or under the "Curious, Custom and Collectible" program.  That's NAA's business!  

   

   The very, very best part is this.....

   

   YOU get to decide whether YOU want one or not !!!

   

   Is that cool, or what ?!?!

   

   If you want a J Frame, a Bulldog or an LCP, all you need is the money, and (in Florida) a clean background check.  

   

   I myself have not placed a BT on order.  I need a BW more than a BT and that is a decision I get to make.  The BT harkens back to a long standing design, (as does The Earl), and I feel it is absolutely appropriate for NAA to issue it.  I probably will not end up with one.

   

   Now, take the magnum frame, include a side-load cylinder and a 2" or so barrel and see how fast I fax my order!

[mayvik]

"$25 would be paid by NAA"

   

   Is NAA including the "transfer allowance" checks on breaktops?  I thought that was only on CCC items?

[wyn]

The definition of a niche is: a specialized market. NAA niche is reasonably priced self defense guns. The top break takes them out of their niche, it is an expensive self defense gun. It moves them into competing in a different class of guns. Once again their niche is according to their brochure affordable self defense guns. The top break serves no greater function than NAA other guns except it is pricier. It is ALL a matter of what you want. The whole point of this post was I don't think it is worth it. Anyone who ordered one I hope you like it, and once agin I like them and I think they are cool, but overpriced.

[rhett]

"Coopercdrkey says: Now, take the magnum frame, include a side-load cylinder and a 2" or so barrel and see how fast I fax my order!"

   

   Agreed, a Mini "Peacemaker" would be an impulsive item to own, even if not being an exact replica. I would guess similar lines to the Earl.

   

   

[wyn]

I have "Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms", and there are a whole bunch of guns that would be great if they were replicated by NAA. In the 1880-1900 time period alot of manufacturers produced spur triggers and a whole bunch of interesting guns. One of my favs is a Whitney revolver with a ring trigger. The book says these are highly sought after because only 500 of them were made. I don't think the run of the mill NAAs will be worth anything years from now. There are simply too many of them produced. Gunbroker has over 9 pages with just NAA guns. The real collectibles are where they only make a limited number, like the Buntline. If people are buying the top break and the custom, curio, and collectibles hoping they will become collectible, it is in their best interest to only have a certain number made. Sandy once said they increased production on guns from 500 to 1,000 per week. Producing that many firearms a year the market is saturated with NAAS.

[ephraim]

No, of course the Smith and the other "guns" you mention are not cheap. That was not my point. The Smith,etc. just fill a different need. As I said, I own several Smiths and a Beretta. All very high quality pieces. I was just referring to the idea that some thought the BT was overpriced.

   

   As far as the proper term to use in referring to firearms, I believe the proper use is to refer to a" auto "as a pistol and a "wheel gun" as a revolver. I don't get too caught up in terms anyway.

   

   I agree not everything suits everyone, or should it. Thanks for the comments

   E!

[chopprs]

I don't know if anyone noticed but Ruger took away the top sales spot from S&W this year. First that has EVER happened!

[stungun]

I have a top break fascination, myself, after seeing my first Webley revolver just a few months ago...

   

   The NAA Break-Top is pretty much my only chance to own a top break revolver... and it's really not a bad deal at under $500... but my plate's full right now.

   

   Sucks, because I'm not paying $500+ later down the road.  So I guess I'm just outta luck.  

[zippovarga]

Hey Stungun......can you provide that law that prohibits taxing an inter-state sale? My dealer charged me tax last year on a pre-paid Earl and I want him to see the law in writing so I can A. NOT pay taxes on the Break Top and B. Get the taxes he charged me last year refunded.

[scrounger]

The BT is a complex and collectible revolver designed and built with a watchmaker's skill.  One will not find a Rolex for the same price as a Timex either.  Just saying..........

[rhett]

URGHHH, Zippovarga

   

   The actual law requires an Affidavit of Domicile to bypass Local Taxes for a purchase. In the real world, ALL postal transactions require Local, State and Federal taxes be paid. The Gray area is the consumer report and pay said tax, --------- not many folks have said conscious of duty to the Taxation beyond representation.

   

   Loop Hole, dig to deep and it will back fill.

   

[Moderndayedison]

A little island sounds nice.

[sirbarkalot]

It varies state by state zippo............  GENERALLY you don't pay sales tax on items shipped in from other states because they were not purchased in your home state so your home state has no right to tax it.

   

   when you buy something from any other on-line, out of state seller do you get charged sales tax?  Some states have written laws to tax you that way.  what state are you in?

   

   It would get complicated if the place you bought the gun from sent an invoice saying you paid eleven cents for the item, wouldn't it?

   

   When you buy a gun from an individual and he sends it to your dealer and there is no discussion of value at all, how does he know how much sales tax to charge you?

   

   

   

   Barky

[wyn]

My dealer won't do a transfer unless it is accompanied by an invoice stating the price of the gun. That's how he knows how much to charge. My dealer charges 6% of the total purchase price. Once I didn't have the invoice so I showed him a copy of the money order I used to pay. He accepted it.

[theysayimnotme]

Kalifornia, like most states, requires a Use Tax on all items purchased from out of state. You are required to pay this Use Tax when you file your State Income Tax return. Of course we all do that. :0 ( Well that didn't work. How do you do smilies?)

   I sent an E mail to the Franchise Tax Board & they stated that we should NOT be charged Sales

   Tax on guns sent in from out of state but we are required to pay the Use Tax.

   The dealers however have been told they are REQUIRED to charge the Sales Tax.

[niterider]

Love the Socialist Republic of Kali.....time to move friend ?

[theysayimnotme]

Shewhomustbeobeyed will not move away from the kids & the grandchildren. If I could sell the house without her signature that would not be a problem.

   I have been looking for a second home in Arizona or Nevada for a long time.