National Reciprocity

[santa]

It seems that very soon we will be able to legally carry our guns across State lines. The bill HR822 easily passed the House and in the Senate there are enough votes to pass it, mabye even if Obama vetoes it. But being an election year he might sign it. If it does become law I have 2 questions. The first question is, is there any State where a NAA mini is illegal? The second question is what gun would you carry across State lines if it became legal?

[Dinadan]

Santa - I do not know what state you are in, but many states already have reciprocity.

   I am in Alabama, and all of the surrounding states and most of the nearby states  

   share reciprocity. A person does still need to check a particular state's law to  

   make certain about the details of CCW in that state. Here is a link to a site that  

   has information about reciprocity among states. In my state any gun you can legally own  

   and can conceal is legal.

   

   http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html">http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

[santa]

Thanks but I already have and am quite aware of what States accept my permit. There are 25 States including my home State of Washington that accept my permit. But I make frequent trips South and Oregon as well as Kailfornia do not honor my permit. Oregon MIGHT issue a non-resident IF you ask the right Sheriff. Kalifornia wont issue to non-residents at all and will not recognize any out of State permit. But I wonder IF National Reciprocity comes about, will any particlar hand gun be legal or illegal?  I heard an unconfirmed rumor that NAA mini's were not legal in ALL states.

[gunr]

Santa, I'm ashamed to say you can't legally bring it down here to Oregon. They don't accept ANY other states CCW permit. Bad Law!

[santa]

Hey Gunr. I wish Oregon did.  There is a Sheriff on the East side of the State that will issue non-resident permits but it is a 6-7 hour drive each way from my house. Plus being robbed(cost of gas) at the gas stations. It sure was nice visiting with you on the phone and anytime you feel like doing it again lets do it.

[chopprs]

No matter what Congress passes even if Obama signs it Illinois, California and New York will not allow it.

   The problem is that gun laws are enforced on a state level and the Fed has an issue pushing codes on a state by state basis. If even one state refuses, and we KNOW that Illinois will, the rest have argument to follow. The whole thing is a joke as if you have a good attorney in Any state and get arrested for any associated code you can push it to SCOTUS and they have no choice but to dismiss it as it is Constitutional Law. Most will not spend the time or money but the Constitution does say that we "ALL" have a right to have a gun and swing it around in the middle of a mall if you so feel the need.......

   Seriously if we harken back to the time when it was written, having a gun was nowhere neer as outside the norm as it has been pushed to be seen in today's world. People walked down the street with rifles and dead varmints slung over their sohulders as we hold an iPhone in our hands  today!

   It really is so very sad that the general public has beeen trained to be scared of firearms as they are no more dangerous than your average saw, axe or hammer.......which is pretty much how they were viewed when the constitution was written......truly a disgusting triumph by the Liberal Left!

[gunr]

It might be getting worse! Now, a lot of people want to change the "stand your ground" law, after this dip shit Zimmerman shot the black kid. Did anybody hear yet what he was doing there. Did he live there?

   Most of black America has got Poor ol Georgie porgie already tried and convicted, and are putting a rope around his neck.  

   I'll bet I know what he's thinking right now. He's shure as hell is hoping he doesn't get a black judge at his trial!

[millsriver]

From the North Carolina DOJ:

   "Permits Honored in Other States - Permit holders should know that while they can legally carry a concealed handgun while visiting these states, they're subject to that state's laws state and are responsible for learning about those laws.    

     

   States with North Carolina Agreements -

   Alabama, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Alaska, Louisiana, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Michigan, South Carolina, Arkansas, Mississippi, South Dakota, Colorado, Missouri, Tennessee, Delaware, Montana, Texas, Florida, Nebraska, Utah, Georgia, Nevada, Virginia, Idaho, New Hampshire (resident permits only), Washington, Indiana, New Mexico, West Virginia, Iowa, North Dakota, Wisconsin, Kansas, Ohio, Wyoming".  I will welcome a National Right to Carry, but we will still need be aware of each states local rules. Kalifornia, ILLinois and The People's Republic of D.C. will never change.

[redhawk4]

I hadn't thought of it this way until now. We are always complaining about the Federal Government forcing stuff on us, in the excitement about National Reprocity it's easy to forget that it is a case of the Federal Government forcing something onto states, which those who are already anti concealed carry don't want.

[coinchop]

It still needs to be worked out so we are covered everywhere by the 2nd Admendment. Some how.../

[redhawk4]

I agree Coin that if it's a Constitutional issue there would be more justification for the Feds to tell the States to tow the line.

   

   However am I not right in thinking that the concept of a concealed carry permit is not directly a 2nd Amendment issue, thereby giving  wiggle room to the States and Courts?

[coinchop]

How many admendments require a permit?  Free speech dosn't. There are places where some free speech is restricted. Not all bad. There are places where shooting is restricted. Not all bad.

   If I cross the state line I can take my voice, and I can use it with commen sense. Should be able to do the same with my gun?

   Bottom line, my life is worth as much to me in any other state as it is in the state where I live.

   Its hard to knock the Federal gov. if they are trying to protect my rights rather than take some away...

   Just my shot!

[lohman446]

You all think that this sounds like a good idea.  

   

   Yeh, lets get the federal government at all involved in the permit system.  

   

   Lets not.  They screw it up.  Pretty soon California will whine that Florida laws do not properly qualify people and we will all move to California style laws under the guise of some national reciprocity.  

   

   A good general rule of thumb:  if you want to screw something up get the federal government involved.

[redhawk4]

Agreed Coin - if only it were that simple.

   

   Lohman - unfortunately while anti 2nd Amendment people stalk the halls of Washington, I have to agree that there is potential for this to become a double edged sword. We need to be cautious.

[flowder]

The government gets you to agree with one side of the sword and slices with the other side of the sword. The interesting repercussions result in an across the board "control" and monitoring and securing for obvious reasons.

[Uncle_Lee]

The very fact that any state can infringe upon my right to keep and bear arms with any permit or license is in my opinion against the Constitution of The United States of America.

   

   If you OK any destruction of any part of it then you will eventually OK the destruction of all of it. They will take it away a little at a time and you will say OK to each bite until it is all gone.

   

   Good men put their lives and all their possessions on the line to get us the freedoms that we have and we just negotiate them away. They were willing to give up everything for us and we let it all be taken away.

   

   

   Not negotiate for we never get anything in return when some of our rights are taken away.

   We just yell to each other, cuss, holler, stamp our feet, slap on meaningless bumperstickers, and come up with COOL sayings about cold dead hands & guns not killing people & etc. Total waste of time and energy. Might as well go watch a ballgame.

   

   SHAME!

[lohman446]

Uncle Lee I agree that they are violating the second amenedment.  I would also say that regulating of firearms not in plain sight is probably against the 4th amendment.  

   

   That being said the solution is not to get the feds involved in regulating it in any way shape or form.

[Uncle_Lee]

That is correct, there should be NO regulations.

   That is what the Constitution says.(period)

[heyjoe]

the way i understood the bills were that states wold have to recognize other states permits just as they recognize each others drivers licenses. states have different standards for drivers licenses but this doesnt stop someone from new york with a drivers license from driving in florida (much to the chagrin of floridians).  

   so there really are no federal standards imposed by the bills just recognition.

[Uncle_Lee]

If it is like the driving laws, then you should know all the laws on carring in the state you are going to.

   Here in Indiana we don't wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle but if you cross the river into Kentucky, you better have one with you and put it on.

   

   

   What the government can "give" you with a bill, they can TAKE with a bill.

   

   They are playing where they should not play.

   

   They smile as they infringe.

[chopprs]

Yeah, this easily smells to me like they want to make it easier to revoke ALL licences on a Federal level!

[Uncle_Lee]

I think this is the first step to a "National Carry License".

   That way they would have all the names in one file.

[jestus]

New to the board but not to life. I've served my country, love my wife and friends and own several dogs. And I'm a liberal gun owner.

   

   As to national reciprocity I haven't looked into the bill yet. At first thought, if it is to allow me to carry my pistol with me as I drive across country I am for it. If you are all worried about a national data base, you are already in it. If you served your country your fingerprints are on file. If you own a cellphone your location is no secret. So, what do you have to hide? Are any engaged in illegal activity? States are way more restrictive than the national government. Anyone looked at Massachusetts gun laws? BTW, I don't think our minis are legal to purchase there.

   http://www.fsguns.com/fsg_information.html">http://www.fsguns.com/fsg_information.html

   

   I agree that there are too many gun laws. I think that we are a united bunch of attitude, not states. I think most gun laws are state initiated not federal. So, think again when you complain about federal government restricting your rights and the 2nd Amendment.

   

   As for Obama, the only thing I heard him say about guns is he's not going to take them away. Those are the words he used. If you want to base your position on fear or conjecture then you better not leave your doorway, because if you are paranoid it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you, LOL.

   

   If you want to get all hot and bothered about surveillance and airport restrictions and wiretaps, etc., remember who gave us "Homeland Security". Try not to let passionate patriotism restrict  intellect.

   

   What worries me most is corporate control of our government. Don't blame the liberals for that. The real problem in America today is not whether one is a conservative thinker or a liberal thinker (thinking is good!). The problem is that the power of your vote is minuscule compared to the voting power of corporate money.

   

   Me I'd rather travel the country and have peace of mind that my mini is in my pocket because of federal law protecting my rights.

   

   -New guy with 2 cents to his name. )

[Uncle_Lee]

I am sick of the idea of giving up your rights and if you don't then you MUST be doing some illegal.

   

   Well, Well, you don't need a warrent to search my home. Come right on in and rip it apart. I am doing nothing wrong.

   

   I just don't know what to add here.

   

   Madcow eating up a brain.

[red14]

I don't want the federal government involved.

   

   Any government that can give you everything, can also take it away.

   

   I have no desire to go to California, Oregon, Illinois, or New York.  Leave gun rights to the respective states.  I have enough government intrusion now.

[Uncle_Lee]

+1 on that Red.

   We don't need any more federal laws.

[bud]

Sure don't want to move to Massachusetts!

[ArmedPatriot]

I dont know which woman it was but her suggestion for national carry was a wonderful little detail that 'need' had to be shown to carry concealed.

   

   Im all in favor of being allowed to carry in every state. Im just not in favor of it being the federal government giving the ok.  

   Theyve made it clear they cannot be trusted with ANY of our rights.

[ArmedPatriot]

"As for Obama, the only thing I heard him say about guns is he's not going to take them away. Those are the words he used. If you want to base your position on fear or conjecture then you better not leave your doorway, because if you are paranoid it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you, LOL. "

   ========================================================

   

   Fast and Furious mean anything?

   How about a UN Small Arms Treaty?

   'Under the radar" gun control ring any bells?

[tranquilo]

Jestus, surely you jest us when it comes to bho!

   

   Surely you have posted here before under another name (names).

[RogueTS1]

Just because one is not doing anything illegal one should not care about their rights being infringed upon? This may ring true on paper but the Governments are not known for being fine and upstanding when it comes to respecting the individual.

   

   Sooner usually than later they begin to take advantage of the powers given them and that is what we call "the abuse of power." If you give it to them they will twist it and use it against you whether you are right or wrong. It is just human nature and hence you must restrict them.

   

   Kind of like Communism. It sounds great on paper but in the real world it can never work for there are those out there that are dubious, lazy and deceitful and will take advantage the first oppurtunity available to them.

   

   If not sure take a look at this lecture provided at a well to do law school:

   

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86XmQra5WMU&list=FLQZUQL0jUHHUX8YQ1pEbKUg&index=1&feature=plpp_video">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86XmQra5WMU&list=FLQZUQL0jUHHUX8YQ1pEbKUg&index=1&feature=plpp_video

[jestus]

Tranquilo,

   

   I've not been on this forum before early on the 14th.

   

   You guys are much too paranoid about conjecture than what already exists. Homeland Security is real and just one step away from an abuse of power. There is no need to fear what the government "might" do. With Homeland Security the door is open already. I know I didn't vote for that.

   

   Maybe some should investigate political asylum in another, better country if there are fears about this one.

   

   Some balance of opinions and facts need to be presented here before someone blows an artery. Turn the channel and get some different perspectives.  

   

   Would we rather anarchy? Don't think so.

   

   If we hand this government over to big money  through "Citizens United" (a misnomer...should be "Corporations United") then you will indeed see our country and our dreams go bye bye.

[newguy]

Yes, the current regime is looking out for us good guys!

   

   

   Obama said he is not going to take our guns, and why would he lie?  He has been the most honest president in generations and with the full disclosure of all that is going on that he promised in full swing, what is to fear?

   

   

   Thanks for posting Jestus.  Welcome to the board and we need a bunch more liberal submissive types on here to balance the independent right wingers!

   

   NG

[Uncle_Lee]

[heyjoe]

Jestus dont forget to visit our gunowners for obama unite!!! thread.

   

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