Nutcase in colorado

[oleshep]

I see where some nutcase killed and wounded 71 people at a theater. He makes another example of why ccp is so important. If someone would have been in the audience that had one maybe they could have lessened the loss of life that occurred

[kb64]

The only problem is the media, and many politicians feel just the opposite.  There are a number of B+ and A- NRA rated elected officials who will cave under the coming firestorm. The logic of an armed citizen perhaps stopping this kind of mayhem just falls on deaf ears. They prefer people to curl up in a ball and pray the shooter will walk past them.  Wait for the Police is their only answer.

[Dinadan]

I wondered if anyone one else there was armed. On the other hand, in a dark, chaotic turmoil

   like that theater, a person would be doing really good to hit the bad guy instead of one  

   of the hundreds of innocents. I sure would not want to try in that kind of situation  

   unless the bad guy was standing over or beside me.

[lohman446]

This was a tragic situation and one we were talking about.  

   

   In MI theatres may or may not be banned from CCW.  There is a question if each theatre in a complex is a seperate entertainment venue (as they have independent tickets, capacities, etc) or not.  

   

   That being said if you were farther away than ten feet from him what would you have been able to do?

   

   Theatres allow one gunman to cover all entrances and exits from a single location - and that is the entrance.  You would have roughly 300 people in a confined area moving around in a panic and it would be dark to boot.  Further you would be firing against a "hard" target (wearing bullet proofing) near cover without the benefit of either.  

   

   I just don't see where a CCW would have been as useful as it would be in other circumstances.

[kb64]

I don't suppose it would be possible to use your gun in a crowded movie theater unless he was going to harm myself or one of my family.  I wonder though if CCW was allowed in places like malls, movie theaters, etc and everyone knew it, do you think these cowards would think twice before commiting an unthinkable act like this?  Just wondering.

[bud]

I have a gut feeling that Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Eric Holder, etc. will use this big time for gun control!

   They failed with the fast and furious scheme, so now they will use this tragedy to their  advantage.  

   

   If Obama gets reelected for another four years, new gun laws will be at the top of his agenda!

   AND he will bypass Congress to do it with his executive privilege.

[cfsharry]

I don't think the threat of someone shooting back would be a deterrent. That would be a rational decision and this type of individual is anything but rational. In addition, it appears this guy was wearing body armor which may indicate he had prepared for that possibility. The fact that he was taken alive without a fight indicates he might want to bask in the attention that will now come his way.

[patriotjoe]

If that's the case. I hope bubba in prison, gives him all the attention he desires for the rest of his life.

[louiethelump]

Where is our shooter that wanted to take on a fellow like that a few months ago with his NAA mini?

   

   I seem to recall that he got upset that some of us  did not agree on that.  I don't recall who that was.............  Someone here.  

   

   I would like to hear from him.  That head shot with a NAA Black Widow would have done the job!  Below the helmet, above the throat protector, and around the gas mask that might deflect the bullet.

   

   

   It is heart breaking.  Anyone that will go into a movie theater and shoot a 4 month old baby in the back is a NUT.  And like STUPID, you cannot fix or prevent CRAZY.

[Kevin]

I've been watching for "No Guns" signs here in southern Wisconsin  since we just got our CCW law last November. Neither of the two theaters I patronize have posted laws against concealed carry.  

     

   It would take fortuitous circumstances for a Good Samaritan to have responded to the nut job shooting. The audience was in the dark, with  night vision degraded by the bright movie screen, and the hampering effects of the tear gas and smoke. I'm sure panicky audience members moving around to escape would have made a clear line-of-sight difficult and unless the Samaritan was sitting close to the shooter, it would have been a tough handgun shot vs potential return fire by a .223 rifle or 12 gauge shotgun.

     

   Even if the theater allows concealed carry, how many of the people going to the crowded Thursday night premiere of a Batman movie would be in the typical concealed carry demographic group. More likely the bulk of the audience would be "tweens", teens, and young adults. According to HandgunLaw.US, Colorado, like Wisconsin requires you to be 21 years old to obtain a concealed carry permit.

     

   Of course, we'll have to undergo another wave of anti-assault rifle and anti-high capacity handgun magazine protests by the gun confiscation crowd. I suggest offering them a compromise. I'm willing to let them collect the military rifles and semi-autos after they give everyone over 21 without a criminal/mental record a .357 or .44 caliber revolver and the right to carry it with them anywhere, anytime, concealed or openly.

[redhawk4]

Every time I hear of something like this it makes me feel sick. I then question momentarily the whole idea of gun ownership, before common sense and logic tells me that while evil exists in this world, we need to be able to protect ourselves and each other and that ultimately in this less than perfect world the best option is for as many regular citizens to be armed. I also find myself recalling recent incidents I read about, or have seen in the news where lives have been saved because the good guy or gal had a gun.

   

   It will be interesting to see everything that comes out about this guy, it really seems he was a total whacko and someone who should not have owned guns, but mental health etc. is very hard if not impossible to police. It seems he bought the guns recently and legally.

   

   All round a sad and tragic day, which sadly says more about the depravity of human nature than it does about guns. I have no idea what drives these people, but they seem so utterly bent on destruction that even if every gun ever made could somehow be magiced from the surface of the earth I do not believe their lust for evil would be quenched - there are still many ways to commit an atrocity such as this i.e. indiscriminate mass murder with utter disrespect for any human life without resorting to a gun, fire has been used with similar results in one case I can think of in Europe.

   

   This would certainly have been a difficult scenario for a CCP holder to have firstly got their mind around what was going on and then in the mayhem, to have had a clear shot. Unfortunately a midnight premiere of such a film, would find most CCP holders in bed because they have work next day. At a different time, in a different movie and maybe in another part of the USA, there may have been 5 or 10 CCP holders in a crowded theater, this would have given a much better chance that someone could have been in the right place at the right time.

   

   I also wonder exactly how someone with 2 long guns was able to get in to the movie theater - as they are saying he bought a ticket and went in with the crowd.

[louiethelump]

News is saying he kicked in a rear exit and came in behind the screen.  What news is reporting he bought a ticket?

[22man]

He sat down, then pretended to get a cell call, went out the emergency exit leaving the door propped or the lock plugged,,,,,,returned 15min later armed,,,,,

   A simple solution would be to put an audible alarm on those emergency exit doors that need a managers key to silence, annoying but would alert staff and security to any improper(other than emergency) use.  

   Witnesses described suspect calmly dropping his shotgun in the aisle and then reaching for his back-slung rifle....shame no one within lunging distance felt motivated/brave enough to tackle him while he transitioned or reloaded.  Weird/sad situation all around. Gotta wonder if permit holders are allowed to carry in Colorado theaters....

[redhawk4]

What I read is that he went in in the normal way, it seems he propped open the fire exit for his escape. It's unusual not to have alarms on fire exits, in this case you'd think they'd be alarmed so some kid doesn't use it to let a bunch of friends in for free. It will be interesting to see what comes out as things calm down and more facts come out.

   

   The bigger movie theaters in UT have "no gun" signs displayed, it seems fairly universal in the big multi screen theaters. I don't go to the movies very often as very few of the new films hold any interest for me, but I do remember looking at the signs about 12 months ago and thinking how one of these nutcases or terrorists could interpret it as an ideal location for their evil carnage. With the number of people and the limited exit options, usually you have to come forward to exit which would have you moving towards the shooter standing at the front, it's hard to think of a much worse environment to be in with something like this taking place - I still feel utterly sickened by it today.

[top dog]

Redhawk4,

   I totally agree with you.

   The thing I fear now is the firestorm of "knee jerk reaction" laws and regulations hampering honest citizens to protect themselves.

   

                                 Top Dog

[bud]

I now worry about a copy cat idiot!

[22man]

A few years back another massacre was averted in Colorado when a female volunteer returned fire and killed an armed nut at a large church:

   

   http://rightinaleftworld.blogspot.com/2007/12/gun-control-kills-people.html?m=1">http://rightinaleftworld.blogspot.com/2007/12/gun-control-kills-people.html?m=1

   

   If the theater was a "gun-free" zone by either state law or business decision I'd like to see any Ccw holder survivors denied the ability to self defense come forward....

[22man]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/07/robert-farago/incendiary-image-of-the-day-cinemark-gun-ban-notice/">http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/07/robert-farago/incendiary-image-of-the-day-cinemark-gun-ban-notice/

   

   Suddenly a laser installation on the BW and practicing head shots at night seems prudent.

[louiethelump]

it does to some people...........

   

   Obviously.

   

   Knock yourself out if it makes you happy.

   

   You can always use it on possums...

[coopercdrkey]

Assuming that my wife and I are in that particular theater when the mayhem begins, and that I am legally carrying a concealed weapon, the sequence would be as follows:

   

   1.  As soon as the threat is perceived, (and that may take a second or two under the circumstances), GET LOW!

   

   2.  Draw and make ready the weapon.  

   

   3.  Get even lower!  

   

   4.  VERY CAUTIOUSLY assess the threat-  Where is the shooter?  Is he in the immediate vicinity or moving in our direction?  Is he firing at random or selecting targets?  If he is an immediate threat to our position, can I get a shot off?

   

   At this point, if our well being is in danger, I'm sorry-  but collateral damage is the least of my concerns.  I would never put another patron in danger on purpose, of course, but I would fire if my wife or I were in danger.

   

   The fact that the shooter was armored can't come into play under these circumstances.  Can you find a chink in his armor?  Most likely not.  Should you shoot him anyway?  Absolutely!  Or, I guess, you could just hope he doesn't see you...

   

   (Let me know how that works out.....)

[22man]

Cooper, thats what a sheep dog does, he eyes suspicious wolves and acts appropriately to protect life and fend off violence,,,,,

   a sheep plays possum and waits to be shot imo

   

   two victims gave interviews,,,,

   one played dead after being shot

   he watched the shooter 'cock'(pump) the shotgun, at one point he stood with his boot next to his head,,,,never seems to have considering grabbing the long gun or tackling the guy directly over him

   

   2nd guy(Stephen Barton) who got shot said he felt sorry for the bad guy!!!!('I'm sorry for whatever he was going through that made him do it'),,,,,no i'm not kidding:

   

   http://www.wkyc.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=1746315301001&odyssey=mod">http://www.wkyc.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=1746315301001&odyssey=mod|tvideo|article

[bud]

The first thing I would do is try to protect my wife or any of my kids or grand kids that would be with me!

   

   

   I was thinking if the theater had a sign-"no Guns allowed inside" that of course wouldn't stop a nut job or crazy person, but may stop a law abiding citizen from taking a gun in the theater.

   Sooooo there would be no armed citizen inside to take the nut down!

   That is one reason gun control would never work.

   

   Law abiding citizens would obey the law, while a criminal would do whatever-------

   .

[cfsharry]

Michael Bloomberg has already called upom both presidential candidates to outline their plans to curtail the ownership of guns in America. A democratic congressman said on a news program, 'we should not hide behind the second ammendment when it comes to protecting the lives of American citizens'.

[lohman446]

There is not one statistical analysis of real world data or any other form of study that shows gun control reduces crime when all factors (such as socio-economic conditions) are taken into account.  Not even in isolated island nations where it should be most effective.

[billybob]

Media baron Rupert Murdoch took to Twitter Saturday evening to express his support for gun-control measures in the wake of the Aurora, CO shooting???  If public support (voting polls) favors  strong gun control, both Obama and ROMNEY will support WHATEVER politics dictate............flip-flop, fizz, fizz!

[heyjoe]

the upper classes have never been comfortable with the concept of the masses possessing firearms