Random thoughts, about LEO's

keith44 · August-10-12 15:08

After a couple recent conversations, and reading some of the older posts here, I had a few thoughts I wanted to share.



   First the conversations were co-workers mad at police for giving them tickets instead of second or third warnings for traffic violations. Another guy chimed in that his third DUI arrest almost cost him his job, and he too was mad at all police officers.



   On the way the other nite I came upon a sobriety check point, in the usual place. Turned on the interior light rolled to a stop, got out my license and other usual paper work. Over on the shoulder of the road a guy was trying to pass field sobriety tests. Two other officers were quizzing a female at the trunk of one of the cruisers. When it was finally my turn for the checks, I offered my usual cheery hello, and asked how the LEO was doing as I handed my license to him. He acted stunned for a minute, then we chatted for a moment, and I went on my way.



   I have been on motorcycle rides where " The Blue Knights" were present. (police only motorcycle club) and couldn't help but notice that while friendly if approached, they tended to keep to themselves.



   These things have lead me to believe that LEO's spend most of their careers seeing the worst side of society, and are rarely accorded the respect their job demands. I know several here have claimed to be a LEO and was hoping to start some conversation, about guns, dumb people, and how LEO's should be treated. (for the benefit of those who think "cops" are just out to get them)



   Thanks for all replies

Uncle_Lee · August-11-12 05:08

Cops are just people doing a job.

   Expect no more or no less.

   When your job is to enforce rules and the rules are very vague, other people are going to get upset.



   Once I learned that they were just people, I got along better with them. Before, I thought they were better than "just people".



   The dash cam is cleaning a lot of trash out of the job.

louiethelump · August-11-12 08:08

Having spent 28 years in the business, I can somewhat agree with you Lee. The guys that work with the bad ones, pretty much know who they are, although there are some exceptions, were everyone is surprised. The trouble is that the ones that need to be out are often popular with the administration as they are also the brown nosers and the ones buttering up the bosses to get what they want. They also tend to be big traffic ticket writers, as that is VERY popular with the administration due to the revenue to the government they work for. (money goes to the general fund in FL, NOT to the police department; so traffic fines help pave the roads) With the dash cams running on all the traffic activity, they get caught.



   I can think of several officers that I had in their training program that were problems. I rode in the car with them for 10 hours a day watching and evaluating everything they did. You see and hear the issues. You inform admin, but the recruit is a friend of someone somewhere, or has already established him or herself with someone in power and the warnings are ignored. Then later, something serious happens and they all act surprised and they are forced to take action.



   You are absolutely right about the reality of them being "just people". Yet, they are expected to be much more and their families are made to suffer for their occupation too. I could tell you stories that you would probably doubt about what my wife and kids went through due to my occupation.

bud · August-11-12 08:08

I have a nephew that WAS on the LAPD in California.

   He was fired!

   Did he deserve to lose his job---YES

   Did his Mother [ my sister ] think so?--No

   Do I love him--YES!

   Was he and did he deserve to stay on the department as a law enforcement officer?--NO

   I know nothing about the admin in the LAPD, but in his case they were right.

gunr · August-11-12 09:08

I drive on Highway 58 to Eugene about once a week. About every other trip I spot a OSP car besides the road waiting for some fool to come shooting by at 20 MPH over the limit. I usually give the officer a simple "wave". At first, my wife asked me if I knew him, and I replied, no, just letting him know he's appreciated!

top dog · August-11-12 10:08

Forty years as an LEO,and I can say yes that I have seen the worst AND the best of society.



   My rule of thumb was to treat everyone with dignity and respect until they show me otherwise.



   Like everything else,there are good cops and bad cops. The ones that should never have seen the inside of the police academy are the ones that seem to work their way to the top,or at least it seems that way.



    Top Dog

coopercdrkey · August-11-12 10:08

Once, being young and stupid, I had too much to drink. The good news is that a cop, whom I had known for years, was there to intercept me on the way to my car. The bad news is that I got sick, some of which soiled his highly polished black shoes.



   He drove me home, told me to get some sleep, but to be prepared to be picked up at 6:30 in the morning, for a trip to the police station.



   I asked him if I was going to be arrested. He said "No. You're going to shine my shoes."



   That, friends, is Community Policing.

heyjoe · August-11-12 10:08

Louiethelump wrote: "Having spent 28 years in the business, I can somewhat agree with you Lee. The guys that work with the bad ones, pretty much know who they are, although there are some exceptions, were everyone is surprised. The trouble is that the ones that need to be out are often popular with the administration as they are also the brown nosers and the ones buttering up the bosses to get what they want."

that hits the nail on the head at least in my experience..... a common experience for fire departments as well as police departments. I was in the fire department as a firefighter so i saw that side of it, then was promoted to fire investigations which in NYC, you also go through an academy to become a police officer, so i saw that side of it also. I never did patrol which requires a whole different set of skills. Make no mistake about it skilled, professional positions these are. Police in most jurisdictions are under paid but yet do an excellant job with very little support from the administration of the department and even less from the politicians.

Dinadan · August-11-12 17:08

I guess I have been lucky - the LEOs that I have run into have been courteous

   and professional. But since I do not commit a lot of crimes I do not deal with

   LEOs very much. Back when I did martial arts my "Master" was a retired LEO - a

   very dedicated man who tried hard to teach us self defense and fitness.

   Some of the ladies considered him "insensitive" which I thought was laughable

   considering that he pretty much divided his work life between fighting crime and

   teaching fighting!

sergeant206 · August-11-12 18:08

I am currently an active Fl Deputy Sheriff assigned to investigate agricultural crimes and I am the Range Master/ Armorer for the agency. I have served for 20 years and like it was said above I have seen the worst and best of the human race. The words Top Dog stated about how he treats people is how I have governed my career. This job is not for everyone but just as anyone who chooses to follow their calling it can be a rewarding experience. We have an element within our ranks across this Country that don't deserve their badges but that is the exception not the rule. Thanks for welcoming me here and allowing me to share my love of firearms with like minded people who do not judge me for my career choice.

louiethelump · August-11-12 19:08

Agricultural crime sounds like Polk county?



   Am I close?



   First time I ever heard of it was at a Remington school at the range just outside Lakeland. (Maybe Bartow?) There were a couple of Polk guys there that did that.



   Welcome aboard



   Louie

bud · August-11-12 20:08

Sergeant206,



   My father in law [now deceased] was an Indiana State Trooper. He was one of the good guys!

   I knew a few of his friends with the ISP, and never meant a bad one!



   One of them retired from the state police, ran for sheriff and got the position for eight years.

   He was ordering 38 colt detective special for off duty officers on the department [they had to pay for them] at a great discount, and ask me if I wanted one too. The cost was $85.00 at the time, and I said YES!!

   I still have it, and it's still like new.

sergeant206 · August-12-12 06:08

You are close Louie. near Lake "O". I do belong to the Florida Agricultural Crimes Intelligence Unit (FACIU)which has a task force that includes Polk Co. Bud, that is a great story on the Colt, thats a keeper for sure. Thanks again for the welcome guys, Sergeant206

top dog · August-12-12 06:08

Sergeant206,

   This might be a little of subject but I hear that you folks are being pretty well over run by Burmese Pythons,African Rats and a "cousin" to the Komoda (?)lizard.

   Is this true? I was thinking of a canoe trip in the 'Glades as this sounded to be a target rich environment.

   Welcome to the forum,a great bunch a folks here!!!



   Bud,

   Those were the days,a Colt Detective Special for $85. The officers on my squad were encouraged by me to pack a second piece (registered and qualified with by the dept) and a quality one handed knife.



   There are many LEOs out there that do their job in a professional,proper manner. It is a shame that we only here about those that are less stellar in the profession.



    Top Dog

keith44 · August-12-12 08:08

It is also a shame when those who are mad blame the officers who caught them and never admit that even a slight change in life choices would be to their benefit.

top dog · August-12-12 09:08

Keith44,

   You are so right but I think it is human nature to blame something else.

   Such excuses as; "the gun went off","My car hit a tree","Just one beer" are classics of denial.



   It does make life interesting though.



    Top Dog

keith44 · August-12-12 13:08

I bet it does at that

sergeant206 · August-12-12 15:08

Top Dog, it is true those invasive species are over running the Glades and moving into populated areas. It could get interesting here in a few years. I would think the abundance of gators will feed well. Keith44 is so right, we hear all the excuses and blame. I am fortunate in that I got to work with the last of the "Old Timers" before liability totally changed this business. I have done and seen things (as I am sure alot of you have and know what I am referring to) the latest generation of LEO's will only hear and read about.

keith44 · August-12-12 16:08

My father-in-law was an officer in the 60's. He worked with the "old timers" and liked it!! We still hear about, umm, serving warrants, and dealing with the open disrespect of drunks and drug users of the day. He quit the force in the 70's when policies changed and made things so it was hard for the LEO to defend life and limb while staying out of trouble.

I suppose this is part of why I try to be as cheery as possible when delayed by those doing what I won't.

keith44 · August-12-12 16:08

LOL, I just remembered an instance where my youthful zeal earned me the attention of a police department some 400 miles from my home.



   I was working for a company that re-built and serviced ATM's. We had a bank customer that was not happy with a new machine, so we rushed to build up a replacement, finishing up right at normal quitting time. Our box van was 16 hours in the wrong direction to use to deliver the machine 500 miles away. I volunteered to use my personal truck to make the run. We loaded up the ATM phoned the bank, and our field service tech and we agreed to meet at the bank at 6:30 the next morning.



   I got into town, and found the bank at around 2:30 am. So I just backed the truck into a spot close to the bank building, shut the truck off, and prepared to take a nap while waiting.



   Well the guy doing patrol duty that night came by...

   I spent the night waiting for someone to answer a phone and verify my unbelievable story. Luckily I never was much of a trouble maker.

bud · August-12-12 17:08

My wife was a branch manager for a local bank, and the bank made the managers service the ATM machine's when they went down. Sometimes they would go down at midnight or 1 AM. When that happened, I would always go with her, with my 38 or 357 on my side.



   After she retired, they hired an outside source to service the machines.

   I always thought the upper management of the bank were assholes for making women service a bank machine late at night!

sergeant206 · August-13-12 05:08

Keith44 that is a fantastic story and I could see that happening so easily. I agree Bud, we see that alot as well.

top dog · August-14-12 06:08

Sergeant206,

   Thank you for the input about the invasive species.

   I had been doing a little research into hunting seasons for them and see that they have some limited seasons for the Pythons. Kind of strikes me odd,I would think that there would be just plain open season,no limits.

   Still have a canoe trip to the Glades in my bucket list. Who knows,if I do that,it might very well be the last thing on the list.

   Just look for the huge python that swallowed me and the canoe!!!!!

   NAAMini for the Python,nope,that is why the Good Lord invented Mossberg Model 500 in 12 ga!!!!



    Top Dog Sgt #110

lohman446 · August-14-12 06:08

In my limited experience police officers generally want to help. This may mean that they respond to a call or this may mean that they enforce traffic codes.



   Generally with traffic situations they want to make sure:



   A) They don't get shot.

   B) They don't get run over

   C) You don't start a high speed chase

   D) You follow the posted rules within reason.



   Help them with the first three and at least give them reason to believe that you will go along with D within reason and they are amiable fellows (and gals). I have gotten tickets when my speeds far exceeded what was likely safe but they have always been far more lenient than what I had earned. Most of the time I pull over the moment I see them pulling out, pull well off the road, and then keep from bouncing around in the car while they are walking up (hands on the wheel, visible, etc). I have never had an officer be anything but polite with me.

redhawk4 · August-14-12 12:08

I think the Police are just a cross section of society most are great, obviously some are not.



   I am grateful to the Police for the work they do, although sometimes it seems they are told, or choose, to do some strange and ill thought out things. I always smile greet them warmly and focus on the positive, if they are pulling me over then there's a good chance they will catch some drunken or drugged up loser, who may kill or maim someone else including me, on my way home.



   When you have nothing to hide and treat them with respect, rather than copping an attitude and telling them their job, as many do, it does not have to be an unpleasant experience. It always seems to me politeness and respect are returned based on how you choose for things to go.



   Personally I have far more of an issue with the courts and legal system that seem set on unraveling the good work the Police do and letting criminals back on the street asap, than I do with the Police. There was an incident here recently where a guy was caught three times for DUI in one day, one incident caused him to crush a guy at a gas station so badly he won't be able to walk for 6 months and his prognosis is he will never fully recover - but low and behold he was released back on to the streets the same day, despite having a track record of DUI from before this. This is why I would hate to be a Police Officer.

RogueTS1 · August-14-12 12:08

I believe another issue is when some jurisdictions try to use their officers as revenue makers. This does not help make officers more well liked in their communities.

sergeant206 · August-14-12 14:08

I agree with all of the above, sometimes juridictions use traffic to fund other budget items and that take away Officer discretion, which is very important to me. Sometimes an arrest or a ticket is not the best way to resolve a situation. LEO's, just like everyone else, sometime make very bad decisions and the results can be tragic. As far as the season on invasive species, I was told by the Florida Wildlife Commission that there was no season on invasives. Their policy is to shoot the large snakes on sight if in a safe location.

bud · August-14-12 14:08

I always thought I'd like to have been a game warden.

In my next life, I think I'll do that!

lauraslookout · August-15-12 07:08

Bud, I know a few Game Wardens and they'll tell you their job is dangerous. A good bit of their time is spent dealing with agitated lawbreakers who are well armed and usally the Warden is outnumbered and in a very remote location. Jim

bud · August-15-12 08:08

Yah,

Any leo job is dangerous! It has it's good side though.

redhawk4 · August-15-12 09:08

Traffic related tickets and fines make the Police unpopular because when someone is caught speeding, or with their tags expired etc. etc. they never feel they were really braking the law, like someone stealing or whatever, and so they get upset, resentful and blame the Police for their misfortune - I bet a big proportion of ill feeling against the Police stems from this.

top dog · August-15-12 10:08

Sereant206,

   I agree with you about LEOs using disgression. Sometimes a warning (verbal) goes a long way in correcting a problem than just writing out a citation.



   I remember one time,a number of years ago I stopped a young man for going through a stop sign. He was very polite and explained that he was going to the school to take the PSAT tests and was concerned.

   I just gave him a verbal warning and asked him to,when he got his tests results to let me know how he did.

   Two weeks later he called,told me his scores and thanked me for the understanding.



   Thank you for the advice of the invasive species,I still might try for that canoe trip.



    Top Dog

bud · August-15-12 12:08

My father in law gave a teenager that he knew a speeding ticking. After writing the ticket, he invited him to dinner at his house Sunday afternoon. He went that next Sunday and had dinner.

I was at a party a couple of months ago and this guy was there, reminding me and my wife of the incident.

bud · August-15-12 12:08

Years ago my father in law gave a teenager that he knew a speeding ticking. After writing the ticket, he invited him to dinner at his house Sunday afternoon. He went that next Sunday and had dinner.

I was at a party a couple of months ago and this guy was there, reminding me and my wife of the incident.

sergeant206 · August-15-12 14:08

Those are the examples of the discretion I was speaking of and great stories too. Often times with young people an arrest can close doors to future jobs that they cannot reopen. Sometimes you have no choice depending on the severity of the crime. As far as citations, the driver can "earn" one by running that gator after the stop is made. I have an open mind when I make my vehicle approach and sometimes they can talk their way into a ticket. Top Dog, If you get down this way let me know I can hook you up with some great hunters in our area. We just had Deadliest Catch stars here gator hunting. Those guys are great fun to be around.