.22LR defense round choice

[Popeye1959]

If you were to rely solely on .22LR for defense, which ammo would be your go to? I was thinking Stingers, but also read they would fragment too much before they penetrated. I would go with a hyper velocity I would think.

[RogueTS1]

I choose the CCI Velociters.

[gadget]

I go with CCI segmented in 32 grain. They used to be called Quik-Shok. If you do a Google search, the wound channels are impressive on animals. I saw a video on a raccoon shot with one out of a Ruger 10/22. The whole skull turned to mush. I carry them in a .22 lr Black Widow and also carry a .22 mag Black Widow to keep it company. Good luck with your choice.

[Canoeal]

I wouldn't. Period. with an average of 7" of penetration, I would run. That is why I chose a BW in 22 mag.

[Popeye1959]

Appreciate your candor, didn't help much though. Yes, I chose .22Mag over .22LR for a defensive round. I ask because not all my .22 handguns can shoot .22 Mag.

[Django2442]

Popeye I'll give you what I've tested out of my 1.5" Sidewinder as far as velocity and fpe at 10' from muzzle.
If you search this forum for "Sidewinder Velocities" you'll find more results for LR & Mag.

CCI mini mags 36 grain
advertised rifle fps 1260=127fpe
1.5" Sidewinder fps 908=66fpe

Winchester Super X 40 grain
advertised rifle fps 1280=146fpe 
1.5" Sidewinder fps 855=65fpe

And while I'm at it the 3 best magnum rounds I've tested
Speer Gold Dots 40 grain fps 945=79fpe
CCI Maxi mag Troy Landry
40 grain  926fps=76fpe
Winchester Varmint HV
30grain V-max 1175fps=92fpe



Shooting the Bull did some great test with .22lr and .22mag with chronographed and gel results

Here's the LR since that's what you requested

http://shootingthebull.net/blog/naa-22lr-mini-revolver-ammo-quest-results/

[plain ol Bill]

Hornady Critical Defense -- if I can ever find the darn things.

[To Old To Run]

From my meager testing the Remington Yellow Jacket seems to work the best out of my 1-/8  barrel, so that is what I choose for a carry load.

[E-Stop]

I carry Stingers or Velocitors.  But I've been curious about Aguila's Hyper Velocity 30 Gr.  It's hotter than the Stingers.

Some guys load the first round with a CCI 22 Shotshell.  Sounds like a good idea... blind the BG first, but not a good enough idea for me to try. 

[Fharing]

I carry stingers, I would yellow jackets if they were available 

[Texduk3]

 though I   currently have speer gold dots in cylinders of my 1 5/8 and BW,
I would use for a .22 LR round the 36 g.r CCI hollow points, (easier to find too).

[theysayimnotme]

Just the opposite. The 60 gr Mexican rounds. The light bullets will shed velocity too fast & penetration will be poor. Same for the Magnum rounds. I have 45 gr Winchesters in my Black Widow.

[E-Stop]

Just the opposite. The 60 gr Mexican rounds. The light bullets will shed velocity too fast & penetration will be poor.

I've wondered about this.  I'd like to do some testing on my own.  Problem is, I can't find Aguila 60gr SSS Snipers anywhere.  Haven't seen them in a long time.   It's a sub-sonic round by design, so there may not be enough velocity to outshine the lighter bullets / hotter rounds.   Out of a rifle, I bet those things perform great. 

[cfsharry]

What is the velocity from a 2" barrel for that 60gr. bullet?

[E-Stop]

What is the velocity from a 2" barrel for that 60gr. bullet?

Using the NAA ballistic tables, it looks like if you multiply the velocity stated on the box by .66, that is the approximate velocity from a 2" barrel.  It's a rough calculation.

The SSS Sniper is spec'ed at 930 FPS, which come out to 613 FPS in a 2" barrel. 

[cfsharry]

Just checked Aguila website and the 60 gr. Produces about 120 ft/lbs fro a 20" barrel vs CCi 40 gr. 79ft/lbs from a 2" barrel. I would think Energy from a 2" barrel for the Aguilar would be no greater and probably less than the CCi rounds.

[cfsharry]

Stevo,
I could be wrong but I believe that number is for a 20" barrel if you take their disclaimer at face value.

[Django2442]

Aguila 60 grain subsonic from a NAA 1&1/8" 596 fps =47fpe 6" of penetration (shooting the bull)

My test
CCI standard from 1.5" NAA 826fps=61fpe
CCI Quiet segmented from 1.5"NAA 575fps=29fpe

[Django2442]

Not LR related but .22mag but it's weight/grain related, I tested a Federal 50 grain (738fps/60fpe) vs the Speer Gold Dots 40 grain (945fps/79fpe) and Winchester 30 grain Varmint HV (1175fps/92fpe) the Gold Dots were the only to open up, the 50 grain did a lot of shallow damage due to tumbling and the 30 grain penetrated the deepest and tumbled at the end creating a large wound channel, the Speer seems to have the proper balance, I've yet to find the Hornady 45 grain critical defense, I'd like to try it out and run some test.

[E-Stop]

Two great posts Django.  Thank you.

[Popeye1959]

Has anyone tried the Fiocchi Ammunition 22 WMR 40gr JHP? They have an advertised muzzle velocity of 1910fps.

[OV-1D]

  Hey everyone "buy American" .

[To Old To Run]

Does anybody have any issues with keyholes on the slower moving 22lrs out of an 1-1/8 bl ?

[Codger1]

Based on what I've read, Hornady Critical Defense in 22 mag.  Fast burning powder seem to get max velocity.  I only have about fifty  Hornady's but will try to chrono them out of my Mini Master this summer.  I no longer can find them

[Canoeal]

You can buy Gold dots or Hornady Ftx from the ammunitionfairy.com. A little pricey, but she has it.

[Canoeal]

This is some info I posted earlier on 22 Mags. I am not sure you need to be concerned about velocity or energy, as both of those are only part of the equation. The real results that are important are the penetration and the expansion of the bullets. I put this together from various sights including NAA. I carry either Hornady (usually in the 4" barrel), or Gold dots (in my BW). I found those two work best for me. I used to keep Maxi-Mags as a backup, but I found they keyholed in both of my revolvers. The 30 gr Maxi Mag hp+v is now my back up and what I shoot at the range. they do not seem to keyhole in my guns. Best thing though? Do your own research and choose for yourselves.
Click to enlarge...

[E-Stop]

Thanks Canoeal.   

My take on this is - with the reduced velocity of these short NAA barrels, throw out the expansion+penetration we all hope for.  I'll settle for the highest possible foot pounds of energy in a .22 diameter hole, hoping it breaks through bone and penetrates deep enough.  I've yet to dig 22 lead out of a backstop or mud hole that shows any kind of expansion from an NAA revolver.  Just deformed bullets... which isn't bad if they tumble in the wound path.

The problem exists even in 380 ACP... and with longer 380 ACP barrels.  Hornady Critical Defense does expand nicely, but it only averages 8" to 9" deep in the gel block/denim testing videos I've seen.  So my expectations are for a .38 (or slightly larger) diameter hole with sufficient penetration.   

Sufficient penetration with good expansion really doesn't start to kick in until the larger handgun rounds like 9mm.

Side note:  One might ask then, why go through the trouble of paying the higher price for defense rounds?  Why not just load up with FMJ target rounds?   Because I've read where in criminal and civil trials, loading up with defense rounds tells the court that the shooter cared about not having too much penetration, thus caring for the innocent ones in proximity.   

I respect other's expectations and opinions.  Those are mine.



.

[riadat]

I use 36 grain cci in my lr, hornady critical defense in my magnum, and critical defense xtp in my 380 which is my home defense gun.  Cz-83 with 3.9 inch barrel.  I'm not sure if i will get max expansion but i know the cz-83 shoots like a dream, is reliable, and holds 13+1 rounds.  Pretty sure none of my rounds in my carry weapons will over penetrate except the magnum round if im unlucky and it doesnt expand at all.

[Django2442]

Hey Stevo in my opinion you hit the nail on the head, with one exception I've had Speer Gold Dots open up, not consistently but I have had them open up several times , all other hollow point that I've tested so far act as fmj's with some to no deformation , seems to me if someone came up with a 40-45grain full wadcutter .22mag round it would be excellent in  NAA revolvers, the 30 grain Winchester Varmint HV are the fastest and produced the most energy (1175fps/92fpe) I've tested out of 1.5" barrel, just for a perspective a Ruger 10/22 18.5" barrel throws a CCI 29gr long rifle 1063fps for 73fpe, I figure if the ballistic V-max tip does open it would make a nasty wound, but when it acts as a fmj which has been consistent, it penetrates deeper than expanded and non expanded Speer Gold Dots, the Winchester entered for several inches then tumbled making a much larger wound cavitation, so I've taken to carrying alternating rounds 3 Speer Gold Dots /2 Winchesters hoping for the best of both worlds, I have some CCI 35 grain .22 mag game points I need to test when the snow clears.

[Canoeal]

Like I said, "choose for yourselves". If I am going to carry I want the best possible rounds in my gun. Just my opinion. For me I will spend the extra, because I am not wasting what I have, or depending on the cheapest. Gold Dots and Critical defense in that order, backed by Maxi Mag HP+V.

[beornls]

I was in this same boat for a while for a .22 long rifle and always fell back to carrying Stingers or Yellow Jackets in my NAA.   Shooting the Bulls videos are very informative, I seem to remember him posting somewhere saying he did test Stingers and they did very well, but I'm not sure if he every updated his charts.   

     

[E-Stop]

I agree with carrying the best possible and leaving the lesser quality ammo for the range.  Gold Dots are very hard to find in my area. I purchased 124gr 9mm a few months back, but I just can't find it in other calibers.  I guess it's time to do an online order. 

[theysayimnotme]

Thanks Canoeal.   


Side note:  One might ask then, why go through the trouble of paying the higher price for defense rounds?  Why not just load up with FMJ target rounds?   Because I've read where in criminal and civil trials, loading up with defense rounds tells the court that the shooter cared about not having too much penetration, thus caring for the innocent ones in proximity.   

I respect other's expectations and opinions.  Those are mine.

I was a juror in a murder trial & the prosecutor on several occasions mentioned or showed pictures of the hollow point bullets & the box they came in. Then he made the mistake of not having properly coached one of his witnesses. When he asked the detective why anyone would use hollow point bullets the answer was, "To prevent over penetration & reduce the danger to innocent bystanders." It was all I could do to keep from busting out laughing.
I was surprised that the .45 ACP round did not penetrate the man's scull. It was fired at close range but traveled partly around his head & lodged under the skin. He lived in a coma for several days.


.

[E-Stop]

I was a juror in a murder trial & the prosecutor on several occasions mentioned or showed pictures of the hollow point bullets & the box they came in. Then he made the mistake of not having properly coached one of his witnesses. When he asked the detective why anyone would use hollow point bullets the answer was, "To prevent over penetration & reduce the danger to innocent bystanders." It was all I could do to keep from busting out laughing.

Ha!  Did the prosecutor yell "DOH!"  ?   

[zburkett]

The ammo I use around the barn is not what I would choose for more social occasions.  When I run into town for lunch or feed or anything else I don't often change ammo.  Face it, the best defensive round is the one in the pistol at the time you need it.