Are we the tiny minority?

[cbl51]

It seems like the mini is not a popular gun here in the part of Texas I now live in. They were not exactly popular back in Maryland, where seeing one in a gunshot was a. dry rare occurrence, yet it did happen time to time. Both my .22lr mini's were bought at a local gunship in the Maryland suburbs of Washington D.C. in the mid 1980's before the Peoples Republik Of Marylandistan passed the infamous 'Saturday night special' law of 1988. From then on, no 'little cheap pocket guns' cold be sold in that dammed state.

But here in Texas, Have three gun shops just in Georgetown, others down the road a piece in Cedar Park, Phlugerville, Round Rock, and of course Austin. None have any mini's in the case,  but can 'special order' one of I want 'one of those things' as they put it.

Basically, it seems like blunt prejudice against small guns. The cases are full of Glock's, Sig's, 1911's by almost everyone, large revolvers in magnum calibers, small revolvers in magnum calibers. Maybe I'm a wuss, but I just don't find fun in shooting a J frame .357. I like to have fun when I shoot.

Okay, I have admitted to being a east coast city rat here on this forum, so maybe I'm  bit biased toward the small pocket guns. I want easy to conceal. I'm not Wyatt Earp, and have no illusions of strapping on a shootin iron and walking to the okay corral. I just want a small shooter in my pocket for the run of the mill mugging, car jacking, assault whatever.

So far in my new life in Texas, it seems like the mini gets no respect what-so-ever. Even been the butt of some semi rude jokes on what a waste of lead a .22 is. Or what a cute toy gun that gun is.

I know that we mini lovers are the minority, but until recently I really didn't realize how much much the mini is ridiculed and maligned by other so called gun nuts. From my long association with North American Arms by carrying their guns for over thirty years, I have nothing but respect for their product. And by way of growing up in an inner city below poverty line neighborhood where street violence was common, I have great respect for any gun that throws a bullet that will penetrate the human body. Very bad things happen when a bullet penetrates the human body.

So, I am at a loss to understand the attitude of the people here in Texas that I run into on the gun ranges that seem to take the smaller guns as a joke. Especially the mini's.

I would have thought that here, with a long hot summer that people dress lightly for, a small gun would have been popular with folks, instead of being an object of ridicule. Certainly in two summers here, I have seen little sign that people are carrying full size 1911's in T shirts and shorts.

[heyjoe]

in my experience here, people generally know about them. i know a few people with them and i commonly see them in the stores. People are curious about them when they see one in person and i dont really hear as much negatives about a .22 here as you do there. The one thing that i find scares some people off of buying one is putting a loaded cylinder into a standard mini.  they must be common enough for NAA to be in business all these years and makng a profit.

[zburkett]

I don't see that many minis in shops here in Virginia.  There are just two places that regularly carry them.  One the shop where I buy mine usually has one in the case because  he knows that every time I have a shooting party someone is going into his shop to ask for on.  I find it is experience that makes someone want a mini.

[Warthog]

Minis don't seem to be very popular in Gun Stores in general.  Used to travel around a lot and as I did I would stop in the gun shops just to see if they had something interesting.  I don't remember seeing many shops with Minis in them, not even the Guardians.  I think the Ranger II might start a change but I suppose that is to be seen.

[cbl51]

I can only wonder if it's a matter of profit.

Just like car dealers put all the big trucks and SUV's up front, if you want a compact Corolla or civic they'er in the back of the lot. The gun magazines are all shills of the gun industry, so the big sellers like Glock's and Sig's and such are in the cases. Bigger bucks and easier to move guns that get all the hype and glory. Not much profit in a little pocket .22 or .25. Not to mention the sales of ammo, holsters of all types, spare magazines for all those rapid reloads while fighting off the local chapter of the Hell's Angles or drug cartel.

Or maybe I'm just getting to be a curmudgeon. The old "When I was a kid..." kind of old grouch that looks to the long gone days with heavy tinted rose colored glasses. But I remember when common working people defensed themselves just fine with small pocket guns of the 1950's like little .25 semi autos, .22 revolvers like Iver Johnson cadet's like what killed Bobby Kennedy.

Y'all have to excuse me, I'm gonna go have some Geritol on the rocks. In a dirty glass!

[RogueTS1]

Everybody knows one cannot kill anybody with a .22 lr or a .25 acp   .......................... so why bring it up? 

Everything is bigger in Texas; or so the saying goes. What else could one expect? 

[redhawk4]

In Texas, it's a bit like the difference between a pickup truck and a Prius.

[bglz42]

Saw several NAA's in Kerrville shops this weekend. Two Sidewinders and an  Earl. My home shop in Texas City always has at least two minis on the shelf.  I have been buying my minis from him since 1990. And one of my favorite gun shops in Kemah has a nice Wasp I keep lusting over! There are plenty NAA's in Texas. You just have to know where to look. And lot's of my shooting friends carry them. And not a Prius in the bunch, LOL!!

[PaducahMichael]

I was born and grew up in Texas. It's an attitude thing. Texans like things bigger, rougher, tougher and bloodier than everyone else. If you don't believe that, just ask 'em.

As Redhawk said, " it's a bit like the difference between a pickup truck and a Prius."

Actually it's a LOT like that. Esp if the pickup is a dually with an extended cab.

[Uncle Fatso]

I know a lot of Texas lawmen who carry one in their pocket as a backup.  They don't make that known to just anyone.  The local gun hustler often has a Mini Magnum in the display case.

[cbl51]

I was born and grew up in Texas. It's an attitude thing. Texans like things bigger, rougher, tougher and bloodier than everyone else. If you don't believe that, just ask 'em.

As Redhawk said, " it's a bit like the difference between a pickup truck and a Prius."

Actually it's a LOT like that. Esp if the pickup is a dually with an extended cab.

I guess I'll never be a real Texan. I drive a truck, but it's a little truck, to go with the little guns I carry!!!!

Must be an east coast thing!

Truck in driveway;


Little gun and mini pocket knife;

[boone123]

I think more people buy them than you would think. It's a quiet thing that they don't talk about to other gun people. It's not a ,LOOK WHAT I GOT gun. I see some in about every gun store  I go to.

[top dog]

These minis pretty much identify with the "cult" factor pretty much like folks who have the original Seecamp pistols.

I think there are a lot more folks out there that have at least one.

The photo in the above post says it all. That mini with the little knife seems to be the one combination that is in many pockets/purses and such each day totally unnoticed.

As an LEO,I always had a mini in the palm of my hand when I was talking with a shady character in a dark alley. Fortunately,I did not have to deploy it but it was a comfort to have something right there w/o the threatening gesture of having your hand on the gun on your hip.

To answer the question,No I do not think that we are the minority but pretty much the silent (unseen) majority.

                                                                                                                 Top Dog

[swolf]

Black Friday I was visiting my sister who just got her cc permit and was looking for a carry piece.  We stopped by a farm supply gun dept. and I was talking to her about the .32s and smaller guns on display, and I was commenting about how many women like the feel of the smaller guns.  That's when a salesman stepped up and said "I beg to differ with you." He pulled a police badge from his shirt and a business card advertising his firearms instruction class, and said the classic line "You shoot a bad guy with anything smaller than 9mm and it will only make him mad...."  We told him we were looking at the smaller sale guns from a flyer, but he insisted on pulling out the bigger caliber Glocks and other high end guns.  I stepped away as he bantered on about recoil and reliability.  He lost a sale because he was pushing what HE wanted her to have, rather than listen to what she wanted.  They actually had several NAA guns in the cabinet, and good chance I would have got her to get one of those for her purse until she put in some range time trying other guns out.

[kc]

Like most other retail today, the market is industry-driven instead of consumer driven. The manufacturers produce not just what they think we need, but what they want us to buy. That's not necessarily a bad thing - it results in many of us buying more than just what we need to accomplish the task - becoming collectors of the products, not just users. If I need a mini in my pocket, I'll probably only need one to get the job done. But I want more than one, 'cause there's several different ones available that I like, so... .

The self-defense industry promotes, in a general sense, products and training that generate income for that industry. Often, very improbable (but not impossible) defensive and/or "survival" scenarios are offered as likely to happen and what we'll be trying to survive....and we obviously need weapons & tactics that are suited to those scenarios.
Everyone here knows that in the majority of civilian defensive situations, a small, easily concealed weapon (& reasonable tactics) will most likely prevent or stop the threat, as well as having a lower probability of causing death than the weapons most commonly promoted.
One would think the small, less expensive, easier-to-become-proficient-with weapons that are less likely to cause death would be most promoted by the industry... but it's mostly about marketing, sales & image, not simply what is needed.

[Scott Free]

Hey CBL51!

I know you by a different name from over on that knife forum. I THOUGHT that was you from the info in your initial post about moving from MD to TX. Then I got down to your posting with the pic of your lil' gun and lil' knife and I knew for sure. It was that exact pic from over on bladeforums that originally got me started on minis. Glad to see you here!

[top dog]

I guess that the bottom line is pretty much what feels comfortable to a person that dictates what they will purchase and carry.
Many men think that the 38 spl J frame would be just right for the little lady when nothing can be further from the truth. It is what a person is most comfortable with.

In all honesty,the tiny NAA 22lr is not that easy to control but go a bit larger to the magnum or the BW and things get better in the control department.

The key to it,like anything else, is to practice as often as possible at realistic distances (about 10 feet) to develop good muscle memory.

Unfortunately,all too often,some folks get their permit,purchase a piece then pretty much forget about it.

Trying to become familiar with the piece when the pop corn hits the fan is not the right time to do that.

                                                                                                                  Top Dog

[Gripen]

In Texas, it's a bit like the difference between a pickup truck and a Prius.

I'm from Texas, drive a Prius, and just bought an NAA in .22 Short to boot. I've never been very susceptible to peer pressure.

[swolf]

I'm guessing that many women are not really onto shooting sports, and just want to get a permit and carry a gun to protect themselves and not think about it again.  NAA provides a simple gun to cock, point,shoot when needed.  No special tactical training. No situational anyalysis. Just "bad guy after me and I need to stop him."  Point and shoot.  I like the idea that my sister will have to stop a moment as she cocks the gun to consider that she is about to kill somebody, and decide if it is warrented.

[Ruger]

Are we the tiny minority? yeah, so. 

Great to be part of the small educated minority, especially when talking about our Minis.

[LHB]

The NRA has done two studies, in which they had female staffers decide what handgun they found to suit them best, and it was not the j frame.

Also, on another forum, while talking about how many mags you needed for your AR, it was expressed that you needed one thirty rounder for each minute until you could expect backup support to arrive.  I grew up 32 miles from the county seat, my nephew lives there now, and by the time the sheriff could get a car on the road, and get there, he needs 30-40 magazines.  Come on, he would be buried in empty brass by the time the police would get there with that many shots.

[PaducahMichael]

Seems to me the "how many mags" question depends on two factors:

1) How many bad guys?

2) How well do you shoot?

I mean, really, most of us don't need to prepare for Iwo Jima.

[LHB]

In 66, a hundred rounds was a combat load for a M-14, and a Desert Storm vet. told be that 150 was a combat load for a M-16, that's four mags in the pouch, and one in the piece.  Basic load at Iwo would have been 72 in the belt, with one pocket in the belt holding cleaning supplies.

[zburkett]

Carrying a combat load is not practical for most civilian situations within the United States.  One of the few times I have thought I might have to draw my pistol and use it against a two legged threat, I reach back and adjusted it so I could get to it quickly if necessary.  The very high and erratic individual started screaming, "I saw you adjust something in your back pocket!  I'm not afraid of you!!" and he left.  Problem solved.  It didn't matter what pistol I was carrying in my back pocket.  I  have wondered if it was the fact I was clearly going to stand my ground and it was the confidence that "carrying" gave me that really mattered?

[Gripen]

The NRA has done two studies, in which they had female staffers decide what handgun they found to suit them best, and it was not the j frame.

Sounds about right, my fiancée shoots a Glock 26 very well, but just about despises her Taurus TCP because it's so small and hard for her to control. Good thing it's almost Christmas.

[cbl51]

Seems to me the "how many mags" question depends on two factors:

1) How many bad guys?

2) How well do you shoot?

I mean, really, most of us don't need to prepare for Iwo Jima.

Oh no, Michael, we do apparently need to prepare for Iwo, or at least Tet. When we moved from The People's Republik Of Marylandistan in 2015 to Texas, the first thing we did was sign up for the course to get our license. The instructor, a retired guy from the Travis County sheriffs department, assured us that a minimum of two spare magazines were needed to be safe, with at least a dozen in the gun. He was very serious. I've had all kinds of people tell me that a 5 round snubbie .38 is not near enough gun for survival on the mean streets. Not enough rounds and too slow to reload. I've had people openly laugh at a .22.

Had some self doubt a while back and spent a whole day viewing videos on youtube. My own violent days are far in my past and I thought maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm dated. No. Spending hours watching video footage from surveillance camera on civilian shootings, they all had the same thing in common; nomatterhow outnumbers the lone civilian "mark" was, like three to one criminals against one lone victim, soon as the first shot was fired from the victim, the street thugs scattered and ran like roaches when the light is turned on. Didn't matter is it was a attempted robbery while some guy was gassing up his car, or some guy parking his car in his own garage at home and a few bad guys try running under the descending garage door, they didn't stay around for a fire fight.

In the home invasion attempt running in under the lowering garage door, the fist bad guy gets to the driver door and it pens and one shot comes from inside the car, bad guys slumps back against the wall hit bad, and the rest run back out of the garage like the devil is after them.

In another car jacking attempt, guy its in his SUV, and as he's closing the door bad guy comes running up and try to carjack him, one shot and bad guy slumps and goes down not moving second bad guy runs like heck at the first shot. Obviously no concern of this buddy who's hit bad, maybe dead.

Just recently down the road in Austin, young lady gets home farmer job and as she's walking to her door, scum ball comes out fro nowhere to intercept her. She runs with bad guy just behind her, gets on the door and gets a hand on a little S&W air weight snubbie .38, and shoots him right in the face. Ruins his day. One shot fired, and he holds the gun out in he hand for the news camera to get a good shot of it.

Gas stations, convenience stores, parking lots, home security systems, whatever the footage was from, it all played out the exact same way. Bad guys outnumber good guy, or in some case good gal, invade the space or dwelling, would be victim gets wise quickly and shoots one the perps, rest of perps scatter and run away at very high speed. No blazing shootouts, no fast changing magazines like Mel Gibson in any of the Lethal Weapon movies. No ankle deep warm brass covering the floor. Just a couple shots in a couple seconds at a couple feet, and it's all over.

The only one I saw where a lot of rounds were shot was, the Asian young lady who was running some kind of business out of her home. It was kind of funny, the three bad guys sneaking around theme, looking around, thence opens up from a bedroom doorway, empties the whole magazine running around like a wild woman with he slide locked back while the bad guys had run at the very first shot. She did hit one and he was found dead outside in the driveway. But all three home invaders had guns in their hands, you could see it on the excellent home security system vid. Yet, when the homeowner opened up, not a single one of the bad guys returned fire. Just ran like heck. From looking at the vid three or four times, it looks like she could have done just as well with an old police trade in .38 revolver.

I think the shooting industry is gone overboard nuts. If you want to walk around with a full size 17 round Glock and multible mags, fine. Free country, your choice. The fact is, unless you're some fugitive squad cop, or stakeout squad, or SWAT team guy, the chances are you will not need much firepower as a citizen going about his life. One compact gun, and maybe one reload will do for 99.9% of the would be attempted crimes against you. I think there is a very good reason why derringers and mouse guns have ben so popular for so long. Comfort and convenience are just two reasons.

[redhawk4]

It seems when talking about calbers and guns we need to consider what scenarios we are ever likely to encounter. Even your "Rambo" gun shop guy with his 1911 in a shoulder rig with two spare mags is under gunned if a couple of black SUV's pull up and members of a drug cartel open up with full auto AK47's - so even they are rationalizing what they carry.

Most of us carrying smaller handguns have matured to a level where we are not trying to express our masculinity by the size of gun we carry. When people dismiss small calibers out of hand they are just ignoring facts that come from actual documented incidents. Most incidents will end when a gun is pulled by the intended victim, and 95% of the time the gun doesn't have to be fired.  The notion that if someone is shot with a 22 they will just get mad is also rubbish, most people will think "I've been shot" and begin to wonder about the serious health implications that could have, rather than whatever their initial plan was. If we do come up against some "meth crazed zombie", then we will be in trouble, but the odds for victory in hand to hand combat, increase dramatically with them having 5 rounds of 22 mag or 9 rounds of 25 acp in them. Even if they didn't notice they were shot due to their intoxication, they will still lose blood and weaken as any struggle continues.

Another point, I don't see discussed, is how a small handgun might have a tactical advantage over a larger pistol. In some cases you could use it's concealability and the surprise factor to your advantage, if the attacker doesn't know you have a gun, they may get a little over confident, giving you the opportunity to fire a lethal head shot from very close range, before they can use the weapon they are threatening you with. If they get the initial jump on you, using your pocket handgun while pretending to retrieve your wallet or whatever, may be a better option, unless you think you are so fast you can draw your primary sidearm and shoot your assailant before he gets you - which is unlikely outside of the movies. If your small pocket pistol is your primary handgun in the same scenario, you are obviously less than helpless.

We can't go around armed to satisfy every scenario, but if we can carry something 100% of the time, that will solve 99.9% of the threats we are likely to face, those are pretty good odds, especially given the odds of anything happening in the first place, if we are sensible about our overall security and safety.

[boone123]

I think many would be amazed if they knew how many people they see in a day had a mini packed away. I have seen a lot of them. Being one that carries one, I kind of know what to look for. They are everywhere. I don't see many around where I live, but when I trip around the country on my bike and stop where there are travelers  like at gas stations, truck stops, and tourist stops, if you know what to look for, they are there.  Those little pocket holsters, and belt pouches, are there.
Then again, maybe I just live in a world of fantasy.

[redhawk4]

I often think that with regards to concealed carry in general, some people get hysterical about someone carrying concealed, not realising how many people around them everyday are armed, but just quietly going about their business. With all the negative "news" we see about guns, it truly is amazing how many there are out there, how many are carried in public every day and yet we really never hear of incidents where guns carried legally by citizens are used in any negative way. We also never hear of them being used in a positive way outside of a few sources, as that concept doesn't fit the media narrative.

Regarding Mini's I think again because of the sort of people who carry them, they are past the point of wanting to brag the fact they carry, so don't feel the need to bring it to anyone's attention. Perhaps it's also a bit like admitting to supporting Trump, you don't want the anger, laughter and ridicule that may follow such a confession, whether it be your politics or your small gun As a result you gain the impression both are much less common than they are.

[bglz42]

My wife and I have been carrying minis for well over twenty years. Yes, we have larger guns. And any handgun would not be my first choice if being invited to a gunfight, LOL! I consider my mini to be my "Shoot, throw and run!" gun. I do not need to win. Just keep my  foe off-balance long enough to get myself and my love ones out of harms way.

I can carry these little guns anywhere. No one ever knows it is there. It is never my "Hey look what I am carrying!" gun. Would never do that anyway.

So, frankly, I don't care what gunshow ninjas have to say about NAAs. Mine has kept me warm for a long time!

And yes, I do drive a dually pickup, LOL! And an Abarth!

[PaducahMichael]

I LOVE my Mini 14 - it's a great shooter!

[linux_author]

only one shop 'round these parts has some NAA products, ranging from minis, Pugs and BWs... no Sidewinders, alas (i would have snagged another tout de suite)...

and the handguns most of the shops carry are semi autos and revolvers that are large-caliber and just... large
(although there are always a number of pink-gripped .380s for other market segments)

sometimes it seems to be a lonely place for a rimfire plinker dude... (but i did recently find a NIB Ruger TALO RIO SS Mark III - excellent plinkster!)

i'm just wondering how in blue blazes folks carry big Glocks, Sigs, or Smiths in shorts, a T-shirt and flip flops?

my NAA mouse guns w/.22 mag rounds are great for concealed carry! the perfect solution for me...

willie
on the sunny and warm Gulf of Mexico

[cbl51]

only one shop 'round these parts has some NAA products, ranging from minis, Pugs and BWs... no Sidewinders, alas (i would have snagged another tout de suite)...

and the handguns most of the shops carry are semi autos and revolvers that are large-caliber and just... large
(although there are always a number of pink-gripped .380s for other market segments)

sometimes it seems to be a lonely place for a rimfire plinker dude... (but i did recently find a NIB Ruger TALO RIO SS Mark III - excellent plinkster!)

i'm just wondering how in blue blazes folks carry big Glocks, Sigs, or Smiths in shorts, a T-shirt and flip flops?

my NAA mouse guns w/.22 mag rounds are great for concealed carry! the perfect solution for me...

willie
on the sunny and warm Gulf of Mexico

How do people conceal big Glocks, sigs and Smiths in shorts, T-shirts and flip flips?

They don't. I've Coe to the conclusion that 95% of what people arg they do is pure internet bull hockey. Pure!

I see all this posts on "I carry a ----------" and they show a pic of a absolutely pristine gun, with carry a single scuff or bit of holster wear. Bullhockey. If you carry a gun at all, it soon like like its been carried. I can't see a way around it. Especially the kydex holster that they snap in and out. Theres that fine shiny line along the outside edges of the slide and muzzle. The sides of the revolver cylinders get a bit scuffed from holster wear. I personally have met the guys who say "Yeah I got a -----" but when I ask "is it on you? " I get a 'well, I left it home today, I'm going to pick up the kid at school this afternoon and I can't have it on school grounds". I guess he can't lock it up in his truck.

One guy who was dating my divorced sister in law claimed to have a .357 for his defense. He won't carry it because it would be awkward on the job. When we were over his house once he brought it out. He did indeed have a .357. It was a Taurus revolver that had no line from the cylinder bolt dragging. It had never been out of the box and even dry fired. The forcing cone was spotless and the blueing faultless. He had a gun that lived in the box it came in, and had never been taken out of the box in the year he had it. But he had a .357! There for he had the bragging rights.

For some reason, gun and motorcycles bring out more cow pies than any other subject.

I suspect more mini's are in more pockets than I had thought. I'd love to know what the annual production and sales figures are.

[heyjoe]

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/undefined/afmer-2015-final/download

53,783 in 2015 the most recent year of report by atf. Page 22

only one shop 'round these parts has some NAA products, ranging from minis, Pugs and BWs... no Sidewinders, alas (i would have snagged another tout de suite)...

and the handguns most of the shops carry are semi autos and revolvers that are large-caliber and just... large
(although there are always a number of pink-gripped .380s for other market segments)

sometimes it seems to be a lonely place for a rimfire plinker dude... (but i did recently find a NIB Ruger TALO RIO SS Mark III - excellent plinkster!)

i'm just wondering how in blue blazes folks carry big Glocks, Sigs, or Smiths in shorts, a T-shirt and flip flops?

my NAA mouse guns w/.22 mag rounds are great for concealed carry! the perfect solution for me...

willie
on the sunny and warm Gulf of Mexico

How do people conceal big Glocks, sigs and Smiths in shorts, T-shirts and flip flips?

They don't. I've Coe to the conclusion that 95% of what people arg they do is pure internet bull hockey. Pure!

I see all this posts on "I carry a ----------" and they show a pic of a absolutely pristine gun, with carry a single scuff or bit of holster wear. Bullhockey. If you carry a gun at all, it soon like like its been carried. I can't see a way around it. Especially the kydex holster that they snap in and out. Theres that fine shiny line along the outside edges of the slide and muzzle. The sides of the revolver cylinders get a bit scuffed from holster wear. I personally have met the guys who say "Yeah I got a -----" but when I ask "is it on you? " I get a 'well, I left it home today, I'm going to pick up the kid at school this afternoon and I can't have it on school grounds". I guess he can't lock it up in his truck.

One guy who was dating my divorced sister in law claimed Mohave a .357 for his defense. He won't carry it because it would be awkward on the job. When we were over his house once he brought it out. He did indeed have a .357. It was a Taurus revolver that had no line from the cylinder bolt dragging. It had never been out of the box and even dry fired. The forcing cone was spotless and the blueing faultless. He had a gun that lived in the box it came in, and had never been taken out of the box in the year he had it. But he had a .357! There for he had the bragging rights.

For some reason, gun and motorcycles bring out more cow pies than any other subject.

I suspect more mini's are in more pockets than I had thought. I'd love to know what the annual production and sales figures are.

[Ruger]

. . . . . . i'm just wondering how in blue blazes folks carry big Glocks, Sigs, or Smiths in shorts, a T-shirt and flip flops? . . . . .

My son goes everywhere with his G19 at 4 o'clock right side.  He is 6' 3", 35 yrs old, wears a billowy shirt most of the time, or a sweater or jacket.  He rarely wears gym shorts.  He lives in his jeans.  He has a mini mag frame with the folding grips that he says he carries occasionally, but I have never caught him without his G19.