Subsonic Winchester .22 WMR

[WayneState]

Hi,

I'm a new member here, tho I've enjoyed Minis for several years.

Wondering if any of you have tried out the new-ish subsonic .22 mag ammo from Winchester (see link below), and if so, what your impressions are.

Would love to reduce the BANG! from my Pug and Blackjack, if only at the range.

For this reason, I was actually looking into the aftermarket Numrich (see link below) .22 LR conversion cylinders, so I would have all the options within that caliber.

Thanks!

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/jeremy-s/new-winchester-super-x-subsonic-22-wmr/

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/north-american

[MR_22]

Interesting. I hadn't heard anything about that. That would be cool for use with a suppressor. I'll check it out. Wonder if it has any issues cycling a semi-automatic? So what do they do, use a heavy bullet? Thanks for the pointer.

[redhawk4]

I'd be concerned as to the velocity, or lack of it, from a short NAA barrel. Have you tried the short barrel 22 Mag ammo that's available, that should reduce the blast and flash some. With the Subsonic Ammo I'd want to fire it though my Chronometer to check the Muzzle velocity, if it's a 1000 fps out of a rifle barrel it could be very slow from a handgun barrel, although it's hard to predict how it might perform, depending on how they achieve the reduced velocity in the first place.

[MR_22]

Agreed, Redhawk--a .22-Magnum subsonic round would be a strange beast. I'm intrigued.

[Uncle Fatso]

I know of several people who buy .22 WRF ammo to use in handguns chambered for .22 Magnum.  They say it's quieter than the magnum but still more effective than .22 LR. A few years back both Winchester and CCI made runs of the old cartridge. The CCI was a JHP, the Winchester was a plated solid.

[grayelky]

Like the others, I had not heard of the sub-sonic 22 mag ammo. Like Mr 22, I may have to acquire a box or 10 to see how it works in a suppressor. Like you, I would be interested in how it does in a mini. If you have not tried them, Hornady Critical Defense and Speer Gold Dot are designed for a 2" barrel. The muzzle flash is noticeably reduced. The velocity out of a 1 5/8 barrel is not what I had hoped for, but from a Black Widow, it seems to be a little better.

As to the cylinder from Numrich. What happens if it is not timed to your gun? Will the accept returns? A restocking fee, perhaps, plus shipping both ways. Might I suggest you send your revolver to NAA and they will not only provide you with a new LR cylinder, they will ensure it is timed to your gun, AND, at no additional charge, as long as they have it, will go through it and check the specs on everything. Anything that is not up to their standards will be replaced/repaired, usually at no additional cost. Oh, cost, $50.00, not $60!. A bargain. Ask Ruger or S&W how much for a second cylinder. (I really like Ruger products, but sometimes they can't touch NAA!)

[WayneState]

Hey All, thanks for your replies!

MR_22 - yes, article says it was designed specifically it for suppressor use.  I didn't read anything about cycling, but like you suggested, it's likely to be an issue for semi-autos.

specs:
Load number: X22MSUB
Bullet weight: 45 grains
Bullet style: Non-jacketed hollow point
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.102
Muzzle Velocity (MV): 1060 fps

It's 45 grain, so heavier than other super x, yup.

Redhawk4 - Agreed. While I didn't see anything on barrel length used for testing, I'm guessing there's an industry standard and it's probably not 1 5/8"! Probably a rifle with 18" barrel, right?  Glancing at Ballistics by the Inch (http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html), velocity roughly drops by half from a 19" barrel down to a 2" barrel. So yeah, it's prolly not going to be a rocket --or as ballistically effective as a standard .22 mag, despite the 13% bump in bullet weight.  However, my only concern is whether it would affect point of impact at, say, 7 yards vs. more powerful target or carry ammo.  I just want to be able to practice more quietly, tho others may be interested in a less powerful round for critter killing, in which case the ballistics become more important.

Uncle Fatso -  Thanks for the suggestion on .22 WRF! I had never heard of it.  I will see if I can find a box, and give it a try. Perhaps that could even work for a carry ammo?  I'll have to compare the offerings to stingers, which I usually put in my LR minis.

Grayelky - Thx for your advice! I actually do use the short-barrel speer ammo. It greatly reduces the flash, but not the BANG. But of course it's carry ammo, so that's fine. Re: Numrich. I did the numbers on this a while ago (ok, last year!) and with the shipping, ffl, etc, I remember it worked out better to just get the numrich drop-in cylinder.  From what I've read in the forum, the timing has been correct except for older Minis. I don't mind taking a chance- someone will buy it if it doesn't work for me! Also, when I looked last year, I think Numrich had a black or blued option for a coupla bucks more. I don't see that option now :/ Wanted it for my BlackJack. I really wish they mass produced more black or blued models. That way they wouldn't be so expensive. I think black is more tactically prudent than shiny silver.  looking into options for bluing (or Blackening) the stainless. 

[MR_22]

Huh. 45 grain, huh? So that's a little bigger than most .22 rounds, but not by much. I've been debating about getting a Kel-Tec PMR-30 to use with my SIlencerCo Osprey Micro, but figured, what's the point since .22-Magnum is supersonic? This might actually be a cool option to try. It would be cool to see if the PMR would cycle it. If not, you could possibly change out the recoil spring to compensate for it.

As for .22WRF--yeah, they work in .22-Magnum revolvers. I have ald Winchester 94 in .22-WRF made in about 1906. Great little shooter. You sometimes have to get ammo when manufactures do batched of it, and then it's gone from shelves for awhile. During the Obama years, I know some people could still find .22-WRF to shoot in their revolvers. Obviously, with a shorter casing and less power, though, they wouldn't cycle in a .22-Magnum semi-auto.

I'm interested now. Problem is, most PMR-30's I see for sale don't have the threaded barrel. I'm afraid it might not be a common factory configuration. I don't want to buy a PMR and then have to buy an additional barrel.

[WayneState]

MR. -22 - Well, I'd sell you my pmr-30, but I way overpaid during the Obama scare and now It's my pistol of personal shame. I'll only sell it when I know all my other deals have made up for that one colossal mistake ; )  Anyway, I lookd the threaded barrel is only  $118 on the kel tec site new, so if you get a good deal on a used pistol, adding the threaded barrel isn't too bad of an add on--and quite a rig when suppressed and using sub ammo --IF it cycles.

I don't know anything about  hand loading, but if someone was into it, I'm sure he could come up with a formula that was both quieter than typical wmr, but also had enough umph to cycle a specific semi auto.

https://www.keltecweapons.com/pmr-30-threaded-barrel-with-flash-reducer-319

[grayelky]

WayneState-

Are you aware NAA produces the minis in a beautiful deep blue as well as an outstanding color case hardened finish? On the web site under Custom, Curios and Relics (I think).

As to a black gun, check this thread. There are some pics in the first post, as well as links. Further down are one or 2 more:

http://naaminis.com/smf/index.php?topic=14368.0

[theysayimnotme]

Uncle Fatso -  Thanks for the suggestion on .22 WRF! I had never heard of it.  I will see if I can find a box, and give it a try. Perhaps that could even work for a carry ammo?  I'll have to compare the offerings to stingers, which I usually put in my LR minis.

I don't know if it's still true but the .22 WRF used to be much cheaper than .22 mags. I used to use it quite often when the only purpose was for punching holes in paper.

[Uncle_Lee]

Hey Wayne,
They have said all that I can about the ammo.
I'll just say welcome to the group.

[zburkett]

I have used CCI "Quite 22s" and they aren't that much quitter in a small revolver.  They also won't cycle my semi-autos.  They are much quitter in a .22 rifle.  You can accomplish about the same thing using .22 shorts.

[Canoeal]

I actually want my gun to go BANG. It makes people look, and maybe help... My neighbors all have there own guns and shots fired will bring them looking for sure...

[Warthog]

I don't need subsonic ammo of any sort.  If I was able to afford a suppressor and the tax stamp them maybe but not now.

[WECSOG]

CCI still makes .22 WRF with a 45 grain bullet. I usually keep some around. Haven't tried it in my NAAs, but I've used it in my Single-Six for squirrel hunting. It's the same price as .22 WMR. I just saw some at Cabela's a couple days ago. Didn't buy any (already have some at home), but I did buy some of the Federal 50 grain JHP .22 Mag.
I like Winchester Dynapoint .22 WMR, too. It's not subsonic in a rifle, but it is milder and slower than most WMR loads. It uses a copper plated 45 grain hollowpoint bullet. It's a bit cheaper than most .22 WMR too; except at Cabela's where they jack up the price on it. So I don't buy it there.