Loading Companion/Super Companyon.

[OLD and GRUMPY]

Some time back we were talking about our "Little Black Pain in the Ass".  I can't find the topic. Old man stuff. It was about back filling the nipples with extra powder.  I did it at the time and it sat in the safe until today.  WOW!!  The Super has been more than a LR cartridge but less than a Win mag.  NOT ANY MORE! ------- Load per the book. 4g true black for the Mag. Flip it bullet end down and tap to settle the powder. Work 4f into each nipple until it will take no more. Clean powder from around the nipples and then cap. She has a new bite, bigger bark! She is DIRTY!  To think I almost sold her!  Next will be grinding 4F to dust. Thanks to TGJ for teaching me how. If you are lurking hope all is well.

--------------

Hay Zorba You still alive?  You bailed on CA How that go?

[WECSOG]

I would like to find some Swiss Null-B for my SC. It's even finer than 4F.

[OLD and GRUMPY]

Me too. But a pound will last till your great grand kids at 4/5gr per shot.

[Bj]

Some time back we were talking about our "Little Black Pain in the Ass".  I can't find the topic. Old man stuff. It was about back filling the nipples with extra powder.  I did it at the time and it sat in the safe until today.  WOW!!  The Super has been more than a LR cartridge but less than a Win mag.  NOT ANY MORE! ------- Load per the book. 4g true black for the Mag. Flip it bullet end down and tap to settle the powder. Work 4f into each nipple until it will take no more. Clean powder from around the nipples and then cap. She has a new bite, bigger bark! She is DIRTY!  To think I almost sold her!  Next will be grinding 4F to dust. Thanks to TGJ for teaching me how. If you are lurking hope all is well.

Is that safe or is it overloading?  I have been wondering about the power comparison of the black powder models to LR or Ma.

Hay Zorba You still alive?  You bailed on CA How that go?

[Bj]

Now I see what happens when a reply to a quote ends up within the quote, I did it with my previous post.  All this time I wondered why people would post a quote without saying anything because I did not understand what was happening. I think I learn something everyday on this forum.

[Warthog]

O&G, I never tried to fill it through the nipple and I am not too sure I could.  I can't be doing things too far wrong or I would have gotten an explosion, I surely would have noticed hd that happen.

How does one stuff BP into the nipple until no more will fit?

I never did that, so I don't even know what that would do to make it worth trying to put even the fines power into the nipple.

[WECSOG]

Me too. But a pound will last till your great grand kids at 4/5gr per shot.

Even at 4 grains, a pound is only 1750 shots.
But my oldest grandkid is a teenager, so who knows? 

[OLD and GRUMPY]

O&G, I never tried to fill it through the nipple and I am not too sure I could.  I can't be doing things too far wrong or I would have gotten an explosion, I surely would have noticed hd that happen.

How does one stuff BP into the nipple until no more will fit?

I never did that, so I don't even know what that would do to make it worth trying to put even the fines power into the nipple.

When loading True Black Goex 4F some will fall out through the nipple. Plus each scoop is slightly different. This would cause one or two weak chambers. 4F will pass into the nipple from the back to top it off. 3F will not pass. This brings it up from 4gr to about 5gr--I think.

All I know is that she feels like a new gun. 

Don't try this If you are not nuts. They are built with the same steel as a Win Mag Mini. Should be fine.

[lefty dude]

This is basically a compressed load. With the Cylinder being tapped on the loading table driving the fine powder into the back of the nipples, not thru the front where the caps go. From what I gather here the 4F powder is fine enough that it will inter the flash hole and inter the nipple void.
So how does one keep the powder in the nipple void ? Compress the load, seat the bullet, turn the cylinder over, then place more powder in each nipple ?
Then you must return the cylinder to the piece before capping, or are you capping before assembling the cylinder to the frame ? Kinda dangerous if you cap before returning to the frame !

I can see the compressed load, by tapping the cylinder gently on a soft surface.
Filling the nipple cavity with powder, not so much.
What am I missing here ?

[lign]

How are you grinding the powder finer? By soaking with water, grinding, then drying? Since that is how BP is made, I assume it would work fine??

I can't find any 4F locally. Many many moons ago, a chemistry professor explained how to make BP, but it's been a while...

[swolf]

Thanks to TGJ for teaching me how. If you are lurking hope all is well.

I miss 2Gun.  He is certainly the master of such useful craziness!  I still look up his old posts for info.

[WECSOG]

How are you grinding the powder finer? By soaking with water, grinding, then drying? Since that is how BP is made, I assume it would work fine??

I can't find any 4F locally. Many many moons ago, a chemistry professor explained how to make BP, but it's been a while...

I've heard of putting a small amount (maybe 20-25 grains; enough to fill all 5 chambers) of powder on a hard surface and rolling the back of a spoon to crush it. I wouldn't wet it because that can make it weaker even after it dries.
You are thinking about the "CIA" method which makes very poor BP. A ball mill makes much better powder.

[Warthog]

I guess no one knows how to stuff the BP into the nipples....

[OLD and GRUMPY]

I guess no one knows how to stuff the BP into the nipples....

One grain at a time!       

I just pour a tiny amount over it and it falls in. 4f fits. No ramming needed. then tap. Excess will fall onto the paper I work over leaving none around the nipple base.    Work with SMALL amounts,no open can and not on a day with static.

As for capping, Companion needs to be caped off the gun any way. 

Later I will find and repost  the "grind your own"  stuff.  Don't try it without thinking it through first.

[Warthog]

Thank you, I have made a lot of my own BY, be interested in how you have been told to grind yours though.  A person can always learn new ways to do things.

[OLD and GRUMPY]

 Do a search up top for Grinding Black Powder.   Look to about 2013/ 2014.   All the info you will ever need.  It was hashed and rehashed several times. Still a good read.  PLEASE DO NOT RESTART THOSE THREADS!  (I made that mistake a few times and took heat) Post your thoughts or insanity here.

The short story of how-------

A quote from TGJs post in 2014.

  "Grinding your powder dates back to the old black powder military. Those powder kegs most likely contained F or FF (1 f or 2 f) cannon powder. To fire your flint lock, you'd have no choice but to grind some up. This activity was depicted in the excellent series "Sharpe's 95th Rifles." They opened a book (a Bible was depicted in the series,) poured on a little powder, then used their ramrods as rolling pins. Close the book slightly to gather the powder along the spine, then dump into your paper cartridges or flask. In the video series, they explained that they did this to increase their effective range. Logically, this makes sense as the smaller grain size increases the burn rate and gets more gun gas behind the bullet rather than spraying out of the muzzle partially burned. Of course, this is a video. However, they took great pains to get the black powder stuff right. I just thought I'd mention a good series with swords, horses, and black powder.  Oh yeah, don't smoke around your "Black Bible." It'll turn to "Holy Smoke!"  "

[Warthog]

That certainly would work.  I use a ball mill to make the BP first from the chemicals. carbon/charcoal (pure hardwood stuff, not briquettes). Sulfur and salt peter then put it all in the mill and let it run for 8-10 houRs, for my small mill, larger mills with larger grinding media can make this go faster.  Once all is blended you get it damp and add some potato or other natural stach, make a ball and use a screen of the size of powder you seek and pass it through the screen, like grating cheese.  Let it dry on some newspaper in the sun if possible and once it is completely dry, put it into some jars and use a way that doesn't spark to close the jars.  Store in a cool, dry, climate controlled place until used.

As for grinding it smaller, once way is to make it small, use a smaller screen, when first granulating.  That has been my way to do it.  As I said before, I once made fireworks (legally) with a guy who lived in the country and had his magazine and his Federal Explosives License to make his own fireworks.  Now and then we'd go out back, where his cows weren't, and did some shooting.  Sometimes BP and other times modern armaments.

[swolf]

"Sharpe" is one of the best British TV series I've ever seen!  Lots of great historical depictions that us Americans have never heard about.  Sean Bean plays an excellent role of a soldier thrown into unwanted leadership.  I picked up the series on Netflix a few years ago, and it remains some of the best TV I've ever seen.

[WECSOG]

That certainly would work.  I use a ball mill to make the BP first from the chemicals. carbon/charcoal (pure hardwood stuff, not briquettes). Sulfur and salt peter then put it all in the mill and let it run for 8-10 houRs, for my small mill, larger mills with larger grinding media can make this go faster.  Once all is blended you get it damp and add some potato or other natural stach, make a ball and use a screen of the size of powder you seek and pass it through the screen, like grating cheese.  Let it dry on some newspaper in the sun if possible and once it is completely dry, put it into some jars and use a way that doesn't spark to close the jars.  Store in a cool, dry, climate controlled place until used.

As for grinding it smaller, once way is to make it small, use a smaller screen, when first granulating.  That has been my way to do it.  As I said before, I once made fireworks (legally) with a guy who lived in the country and had his magazine and his Federal Explosives License to make his own fireworks.  Now and then we'd go out back, where his cows weren't, and did some shooting.  Sometimes BP and other times modern armaments.

It's good to see another BP maker on the forum.
Do you make your own charcoal? Have you tried any softer woods? Hardwoods work fine (it's what Goex uses), but there are better woods. Charcoal made from cedar chips works well. Willow is one of the best, as are grapevines. Personally I look for fast-growing "weed trees," including tree of heaven.
I also press my BP in a 20 ton shop press, then break it up and grind it in a hand-cranked ceramic coffee mill. When you do that, no binder is necessary.

[OLD and GRUMPY]

Charcoal.

http://pyrosource.wikia.com/wiki/Charcoal_Suitability_Table

[WECSOG]

Charcoal.

http://pyrosource.wikia.com/wiki/Charcoal_Suitability_Table

Here's an interesting pdf: http://pyrotechnic.narod.ru/Black_Powder.pdf

[OLD and GRUMPY]

%s---  If your eyes are good go to the pics at the bottom of the page. Check out the last pic.  % of cems used in each country. Love
Pedersoli.

https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/rivista-dettaglio.asp/l_en/idne_89/69-ball-buck-and-ball-and-buckshot-cartridges--the-us-army.html

[OLD and GRUMPY]

Charcoal.

http://pyrosource.wikia.com/wiki/Charcoal_Suitability_Table

Here's an interesting pdf: http://pyrotechnic.narod.ru/Black_Powder.pdf

Thanks.

[WECSOG]

Charcoal.

http://pyrosource.wikia.com/wiki/Charcoal_Suitability_Table

Here's an interesting pdf: http://pyrotechnic.narod.ru/Black_Powder.pdf

Thanks.

You're welcome. Here's another interesting link: http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/charcoal.html

[Warthog]

I used to press my BP into pucks and then use a small hammer mill I built to make the granules.  I have made a lot of my own charcoal too but these days, since I don't really have anywhere to build a fire, I tend to buy.  I have used everything from Pine Cones to hard wood trying to get the right sort of sparkles or the right thrust to propel my shells into the air.  I don't really care much now as I am no longer able to make fireworks.

[swolf]

I haven't made BP myself yet, but I've collected all the proper ingredients.  I harvested some nice willow branches and cooked them down to charcoal as recommended.  I have the mill stuff also, and hope within the next year to have the time and place to brew my own powder.  Lots of excellent, clear instructions online to do it safely and right.  Now I'm ready for the Dems to take back the control after Trump.  Not only for my Companion, but for my Navy .45s and my .32 Winchester.

[WECSOG]

I haven't made BP myself yet, but I've collected all the proper ingredients.  I harvested some nice willow branches and cooked them down to charcoal as recommended.  I have the mill stuff also, and hope within the next year to have the time and place to brew my own powder.  Lots of excellent, clear instructions online to do it safely and right.  Now I'm ready for the Dems to take back the control after Trump.  Not only for my Companion, but for my Navy .45s and my .32 Winchester.

.38 Special was originally a black powder cartridge, too. The standard load was a 158 grain lead bullet over 21 grains of BP. I've actually loaded some of those and shot them in my LCR just to see how well it would work. It worked fine.