February Soapbox

[redhawk4]

Another candid piece from Mr Chisolm, he doesn't pull any punches over the Ranger II difficulties and the fact he offers to buy back any Rangers from the terminally disappointed says alot to me about their commitment to excellence even when though they may have momentarily failed to meet their own high standards despite making every effort.

I was at NAA this afternoon for some further repairs on my Ranger II, but the way I was treated and received there, already had me feeling good about the whole situation before I read the Soapbox.

[Kimber1911]

     I believe that Sandy & NAA have & will back ALL of their products. This is why I am looking @ my next mini mag ( not including the EB ll , still waiting for. LOL ), a Pug-T. I also believe that the ammo problem clearly rests on the customer. I have seen people drop boxes of ammo, several times then scratch their heads when it doesn't go BANG ! Rim fires don't like to be dropped, & cheep is what you pay for & get. I've said enough.   TTFN       R 

[RangerJim]

Agreed, Redhawk.  I received my two EBs (55 and 56) a couple of weeks ago, but have been traveling, and haven't been able to do anything until now.  With one of them--#56--the hammer wouldn't even cock, so I'll be sending it back to NAA next week.  His twin brother--"Double Nickel"--may join him, depending on my range results this weekend ...  However, I must say that I have complete confidence in NAA's desire/ability to make things right.

For those who may have missed it, here's the link to Sandy's February Soapbox:

https://northamericanarms.com/sandys-soapbox/

[redhawk4]

     I also believe that the ammo problem clearly rests on the customer. I have seen people drop boxes of ammo, several times then scratch their heads when it doesn't go BANG ! Rim fires don't like to be dropped, & cheep is what you pay for & get. I've said enough.   TTFN       R

That's a bit of an all encompassing statement, that in my case is utterly untrue. Tell me of a better ammo than Speer Gold Dot or CCI?  The problems also only occur with 22 Mag.

As most who have suffered problems, own other NAA revolvers that work fine, why would they suddenly start dropping the ammo for their Rangers? or have problems, their other NAA revolvers don't have with the exact same ammo?

IMO  the misfire problem lies in part with the chambers, which Sandy mentioned in his Soapbox. The cartridges stick and won't come out for dimensional and/or surface finish reasons, this is made worse by soot which seems to build up rapidly and then in the same way as the cartridges don't want to come out, they fail to seat properly when they go in, meaning they move forward slightly, to seat fully,  as the hammer strikes reducing the necessary impact.

As for the other problems like the seizing of the mechanism when trying to cock the gun the problem is as of yet not exactly known, but I'm confident it will be sorted out. They could at least see first hand with my Ranger the issues and because I purposely didn't clean it before taking it in, they intend to fire several cylinders through it so they can again experience the other problems first hand which should aid in them being eliminated. I have no doubt they will all be resolved in time, if I remember originally there were problems with the Sidewinders when they first came out, but those problems went away.

[Ruger]

 Sandy, no confidence lost here; even tho it appear s that I will need one adjusted at the factory. I love my rangers!!

[gofishr]

Sandy, no confidence lost here; even tho it appear s that I will need one adjusted at the factory. I love my rangers!! Quoted by Ruger


I agree,,,With You!!!!!

[Canoeal]

At some point they will get it right. Some of it is simply "take a deep breath and slow down; do it right not fast..."

[Bigbird48]

OK Thread drift Redhawk thanks for mentioning the sidewinders. I've been meaning ask that question. Did the EB sidewinders have problems??. I have 2 115 & 116 that  I have never fired. Does anyone know of any significant problems they had or can I feel pretty good that mine are ok?

     I also believe that the ammo problem clearly rests on the customer. I have seen people drop boxes of ammo, several times then scratch their heads when it doesn't go BANG ! Rim fires don't like to be dropped, & cheep is what you pay for & get. I've said enough.   TTFN       R

That's a bit of an all encompassing statement, that in my case is utterly untrue. Tell me of a better ammo than Speer Gold Dot or CCI?  The problems also only occur with 22 Mag.

As most who have suffered problems, own other NAA revolvers that work fine, why would they suddenly start dropping the ammo for their Rangers? or have problems, their other NAA revolvers don't have with the exact same ammo?

IMO  the misfire problem lies in part with the chambers, which Sandy mentioned in his Soapbox. The cartridges stick and won't come out for dimensional and/or surface finish reasons, this is made worse by soot which seems to build up rapidly and then in the same way as the cartridges don't want to come out, they fail to seat properly when they go in, meaning they move forward slightly, to seat fully,  as the hammer strikes reducing the necessary impact.

As for the other problems like the seizing of the mechanism when trying to cock the gun the problem is as of yet not exactly known, but I'm confident it will be sorted out. They could at least see first hand with my Ranger the issues and because I purposely didn't clean it before taking it in, they intend to fire several cylinders through it so they can again experience the other problems first hand which should aid in them being eliminated. I have no doubt they will all be resolved in time, if I remember originally there were problems with the Sidewinders when they first came out, but those problems went away.

[cfsharry]

You all are extremely generous. Having had two years after announcing the product to get it right, they didn't. That is a shame and glad to see NAA owning up to the problem.
I cancelled my order as soon as I began reading about the problem. Will buy one when all issues are resolved.

[redhawk4]

OK Thread drift Redhawk thanks for mentioning the sidewinders. I've been meaning ask that question. Did the EB sidewinders have problems??. I have 2 115 & 116 that  I have never fired. Does anyone know of any significant problems they had or can I feel pretty good that mine are ok?

     I also believe that the ammo problem clearly rests on the customer. I have seen people drop boxes of ammo, several times then scratch their heads when it doesn't go BANG ! Rim fires don't like to be dropped, & cheep is what you pay for & get. I've said enough.   TTFN       R

That's a bit of an all encompassing statement, that in my case is utterly untrue. Tell me of a better ammo than Speer Gold Dot or CCI?  The problems also only occur with 22 Mag.

As most who have suffered problems, own other NAA revolvers that work fine, why would they suddenly start dropping the ammo for their Rangers? or have problems, their other NAA revolvers don't have with the exact same ammo?

IMO  the misfire problem lies in part with the chambers, which Sandy mentioned in his Soapbox. The cartridges stick and won't come out for dimensional and/or surface finish reasons, this is made worse by soot which seems to build up rapidly and then in the same way as the cartridges don't want to come out, they fail to seat properly when they go in, meaning they move forward slightly, to seat fully,  as the hammer strikes reducing the necessary impact.

As for the other problems like the seizing of the mechanism when trying to cock the gun the problem is as of yet not exactly known, but I'm confident it will be sorted out. They could at least see first hand with my Ranger the issues and because I purposely didn't clean it before taking it in, they intend to fire several cylinders through it so they can again experience the other problems first hand which should aid in them being eliminated. I have no doubt they will all be resolved in time, if I remember originally there were problems with the Sidewinders when they first came out, but those problems went away.

I know for a fact they had problems Bigbird, sorry I son't know the details of the issues, I'm sure someone else will chime in with some specifics.

[seak]

Its nice to know every buy back can be sold on gun broker for twice the money if they wanted to. Ruger always just claims danger and request all guns be returned and they don't even try to fix just quit making that gun. The guns not returned then sell for three times the money.

[Uncle_Lee]

Another Ranger II up for sale.
If they can't be fixed, Sell them for a profit....(joke)


https://www.gunbroker.com/item/744207348

[45flint]

OK Thread drift Redhawk thanks for mentioning the sidewinders. I've been meaning ask that question. Did the EB sidewinders have problems??. I have 2 115 & 116 that  I have never fired. Does anyone know of any significant problems they had or can I feel pretty good that mine are ok?

     I also believe that the ammo problem clearly rests on the customer. I have seen people drop boxes of ammo, several times then scratch their heads when it doesn't go BANG ! Rim fires don't like to be dropped, & cheep is what you pay for & get. I've said enough.   TTFN       R

That's a bit of an all encompassing statement, that in my case is utterly untrue. Tell me of a better ammo than Speer Gold Dot or CCI?  The problems also only occur with 22 Mag.

As most who have suffered problems, own other NAA revolvers that work fine, why would they suddenly start dropping the ammo for their Rangers? or have problems, their other NAA revolvers don't have with the exact same ammo?

IMO  the misfire problem lies in part with the chambers, which Sandy mentioned in his Soapbox. The cartridges stick and won't come out for dimensional and/or surface finish reasons, this is made worse by soot which seems to build up rapidly and then in the same way as the cartridges don't want to come out, they fail to seat properly when they go in, meaning they move forward slightly, to seat fully,  as the hammer strikes reducing the necessary impact.

As for the other problems like the seizing of the mechanism when trying to cock the gun the problem is as of yet not exactly known, but I'm confident it will be sorted out. They could at least see first hand with my Ranger the issues and because I purposely didn't clean it before taking it in, they intend to fire several cylinders through it so they can again experience the other problems first hand which should aid in them being eliminated. I have no doubt they will all be resolved in time, if I remember originally there were problems with the Sidewinders when they first came out, but those problems went away.

I've shoot my EB Sidewinder many times with no problems.

[45flint]

Maybe NAA is finding out the hard way why main stream Break-Top pistols were phased out of production years ago.  And when you shrink down the size the margin for machining error is probably very small.  Probably also exasperated by a design that had to reduce production costs.  Though it may hurt their pride, wonder if a 22LR only would be a better answer or at least a option they should offer.

[grayelky]

Maybe NAA is finding out the hard way why main stream Break-Top pistols were phased out of production years ago.  And when you shrink down the size the margin for machining error is probably very small.  Probably also exasperated by a design that had to reduce production costs.  Though it may hurt their pride, wonder if a 22LR only would be a better answer or at least a option they should offer.

Are you referring to a LR sized gun? Wouldn't that make it even more complex by making it smaller? If you mean retain the current size but LR only, how would that help?

[grayelky]

You all are extremely generous. Having had two years after announcing the product to get it right, they didn't. That is a shame and glad to see NAA owning up to the problem.
I cancelled my order as soon as I began reading about the problem. Will buy one when all issues are resolved.

It is one thing to produce a handful of hand made prototypes, but yet quite another to go into full scale production. Add to that changing from a small, select handful of experienced employees to several hundred members of the general population as "testers", along with production speed manufacturing and assembly, and, you will discover each and every tiny flaw you thought was worked out.

[45flint]

Maybe NAA is finding out the hard way why main stream Break-Top pistols were phased out of production years ago.  And when you shrink down the size the margin for machining error is probably very small.  Probably also exasperated by a design that had to reduce production costs.  Though it may hurt their pride, wonder if a 22LR only would be a better answer or at least a option they should offer.

Are you referring to a LR sized gun? Wouldn't that make it even more complex by making it smaller? If you mean retain the current size but LR only, how would that help?

Less power and less strain on gun.  Problem seems to be with mag cylinder and you can't order just 22lr?  Yes a smaller 22 cylinder gun would be very cool but I wasn't thinking of that.

[heyjoe]

its up to $1,025 with 13 days to go. 

Another Ranger II up for sale.
If they can't be fixed, Sell them for a profit....(joke)


https://www.gunbroker.com/item/744207348

[heyjoe]

After Sandy's latest soapbox can we put to rest the ridiculous claims that we were designed to be beta testers and that we "rushed" them into releasing a model before they were ready. 

[Canoeal]

Not even a EB it is a BTN...

[RICKS PLACE]

My 2 cents, yeah, I have been shooting rimfire for a while now.  Started at 9, i'm 80. i agree that dropping rimfire are a good way to keep them from going bang.  I dropped the tube i carry my LR cylinder in for back up, went straight to fresh ammo and put the dropped rounds with my range ammo.  Also, when I clean the gun at least once a week, I make sure both cylinders are dry, then as i reload them, that they seat all the way with only gravity, then reverse the cylinder and make sure they will fall out by gravity alone.  At the range, I carry a brush to run thru the cylinder after each second firing.  Rimfire 22s are about as dirty as my bullseye powder reloads. Not saying there is not a problem with the new Rangers to be worked out, i like the idea of the sidewinder better, but, that's me.

[Uncle_Lee]

                                                                                           

[Zekepup]

I saw where Sandy said in the February soapbox that Anguilla (Aguila ) ammo was not recommended

'We invite our customers to try a wide range of different brands (other than Anguilla) in our guns to identify any idiosyncrasies "

I thought only PMC was not recommended. Would this include  Aguila and  Colibri  . I just bought some Colibri LR and  some shorts.

[Canoeal]

When I bought my BW a couple of years ago, a warning sheet came with it that included no shooting PMC and Armscor. Here is the post:
"Both PMC and Armscor were listed on the papers with My Black Widow.

From the website:
"*This advisory is being extended to additional brands of ammunition which may be made under subcontract to PMC.  These include certain models of ARMSCOR & FIOCCHI products.  If the box identifies the contents as “Made in the Phillipines”, we recommend against using the product in NAA mini-revolvers."

I still stay away from those brands.

[Bigbird48]

No Soapbox for March yet

[Ruger]

We need to give Sandy a little breather . . after two years of dogging him for Ranger II news, he deserves a break . . .