Ranger 2 review

[seaotter]

Jeremy at The Truth About Guns reviewed the Ranger 2 on YouTube recently.

https://youtu.be/F8ifuCTIWrA

He is a big fan of NAA mini revolvers, but he said that the Ranger had a fatal flaw: about a quarter of the time, as he cocked the gun, he accidentally opened the action with his thumb.  As a result, he was unable to recommend it, even though he liked everything else about it.
I don't recall anyone here having that specific complaint, but watching the video I can see why it could be a problem.

[Bigbird48]

I think that he made that a problem and did it on purpose. Watching him shoot he deliberately puts his thumb up to grab the latch. You have to try to do it. I've shot as fast as I can and never once had that happen and no one here on the forum has ever mentioned it happening. Fatal flaw is an extreme misconception on his part, and if by the remote chance it is a real problem for him, he should know that with a little practice that problem goes away. He probably has trouble getting regular minis in the safety notch too  

[PaducahMichael]

Sadly, he's a well respected reviewer and this WILL hurt. I agree that he's "making" it fail. I don't understand why he's doing it - he says very nice things about NAA, but then at the end he drops the fatal flaw bomb. And I don't think it is a fatal flaw anyway.

All that matters to me is that I'll love mine when the bugs are worked out.

I'll be sure to comment on his video, too. Maybe enough comments saying "no problem for me" will mitigate the negative effect of his review.

[seaotter]

He has a couple of other NAA reviews, and he's usually extremely complimentary, so it's a bit hard to see why he would try to deliberately make the Ranger look bad. Maybe he just got one with a loose latch or something. I noticed that it did look like he was trying to catch the latch on purpose, but I figured that was just for making his point. Well, if no one else is having that issue, I would encourage all of you BT owners to make a comment on the video, just to make your opinion count. Jeremy usually responds to most of the comments people make, so maybe a dialog will encourage him to revise his review. In at least one case ( a Highpoint C9) he allowed another person to give a differing opinion. If it just comes down to technique, perhaps someone can suggest some modifications to his grip that would help. Not having a Ranger 2 myself, I can't really offer an accurate response.

[smokeless joe]

I have fired a few hundred rounds thru mine and that has not happened to me once. I can't say that if I were a hurry (like in a stressful situation) that I might grab the release latch, but so far on normal range shooting this has not been an issue. Going back to the range tomorrow with about 150 rounds. I'll see if the fatal flaw rears it ugly head. Stay tuned 😄

[heyjoe]

final comments....fatal flaw its just not cool....hahaah ....stellar professional review ....the way he's flipping the breaktop open towards the end reminds me of people who flick their wrists to close a cylinder on a hand ejector.....wtf

[PaducahMichael]

final comments....fatal flaw its just not cool....hahaah ....stellar professional review ....the way he's flipping the breaktop open towards the end reminds of people flick their wrists to close a cylinder on a hand ejector.....wtf

The way he was flipping that Ranger around sort of pissed me off to tell the truth. Bad - and perhaps unsafe - gun handling. What a showboat.

[JeremyS]

Apologies for doing a copy-and-paste, but it's midnight and I'm hitting the sack and I just typed this on YouTube...and figured it may as well go here also:

"I stand by this. Chris did it immediately -- first or second cylinder through the gun -- and I had not said a word to him about it. If I shoot the thing slowly and carefully, it doesn't happen. But if I'm giving it the ol' hard and fast cock, it happens far too often. The cylinder release is right-freakin-there and it takes a fraction of the power to break the action open than it does to cock the heavily-sprung hammer. If I have 90% of the force on the hammer and 10% overlaps onto that release, the action is opening. Keep in mind this is a Mini Revolver and it's tiny. My thumb wants to overlap like that. The natural location for it is hammer spur right in the middle of my thumb pad. That's enough to snag that release if I push down on the hammer with decent force. Which happens if I'm not specifically paying attention or shooting slowly and precisely and carefully and applying no more force than necessary to move the hammer. Basically, it happens if I'm shooting at all rapidly. I'm pretty confident it would happen in any general self-defense scenario where I'm snagging that hammer with authority. Whether left thumb or right. I'm confident it would happen to most men with average-sized fingers (or larger) in these scenarios.

Keep in mind I still think it's an exceptionally well-made gun that's a ton of fun to shoot. Great for range time! But the likelihood of accidently breaking the action open is far too high to rely on this in a scenario where you're stressed. I believe this is why the original Ranger had a different release lever that required you to lift up on it (it was too expensive for them to manufacture, though)."

...and when I said "a quarter of the time" in the video I meant about once every four cylinders through it, not once every four rounds. The first time it happened in the video it WAS on accident. The rest of the time it was semi-deliberate to make the point. But I had already put a bunch of rounds through the gun before filming the video and it was happening completely on accident prior to that. And, as mentioned above and in the video, it happened to another gun writer who's familiar with revolvers and NAA Minis, too.

Hope this helps explain it further. It's nothing personal and I'm absolutely, positively NOT out to "get" NAA or ding them or whatever. It's one of my favorite brands and it pains me to say something negative about them. I have nothing but positive reviews on their products in the past. Hell, I spent a shit-ton of money to get a custom hat made for my Mini (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/12/jeremy-s/gear-review-nathaniels-custom-hats-naa-revolver-holster-hat/). Sorry I'm ruffling feathers on here, but I do stand by this and assure you other people will encounter this same issue even if you guys haven't.

And I wear men's size large gloves and I'm 6-feet tall. So I'm not exactly a circus freak or anything LOL

Cheers,

Jeremy

[JeremyS]

Full review on TTAG here: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/02/jeremy-s/gun-review-naa-ranger-ii-break-top-mini-revolver/

(goes live at 10:00 AM Central Time on Feb 27, in case this post gets approved by the moderators before that and the link doesn't work yet)

Cheers,

Jeremy

[seaotter]

Thanks, Jeremy, for your quick and reasoned response! I have always preferred the "classic" styled mini revolvers because the ARE so simple. With a firearm as small as a mini, any added complexity can cause issues such as the one you experienced. Personally, I think that it is quite impressive that NAA was able to build a break too revolver this small and still have it function reliably (which seems to the case now that the bugs have evidently been worked out). As far as I can ascertain, NAA is the only company building an original break top design. In spite of any limitations that have resulted from  its size,  it is still a remarkable engineering tour de force!
BTW, you should try out the Black Widow and Pug. In my opinion, these are two of NAA's best products.

[PaducahMichael]

Jeremy, I read the article about the gun hat - it's a fine article and I really enjoyed it. I couldn't help noticing this line:

And if it isn't obvious, this is mostly for fun. I have no thoughts of using this setup for self-defense purposes

I feel the same way about the Ranger II. I don't see it as a self-defense item so probably will never get excited enough to thumb the latch open in error. As you said, it's mostly for fun.

Perhaps you could have clarified that a bit - it MIGHT be flawed for rapid cocking and in a stressful situation. But if nobody is shooting back, it can still be fun.

I stand beside my complaint about the way you handled the weapon by flipping it around to drop spent brass.

[MtGoat]

It is a good observation.
Hopefully NAA takes note and makes adjustments if they deem them warranted.

For me and friends with over 250 rounds through a BT none of us have had this issue.
BUT it is something good to watch out for.
It is not dangerous unless in a self defense situation but could be annoying while shooting.

When I see the BT again I am going to try and do this.  I honestly don't see how I could do this without growing 2" more on my thumb.
I use the thumb on my trigger finger hand.  I noted he is using the off hand for manipulating the hammer....hmmm.

I am thinking the latch is much tighter than the one in the video.  The latch may need adjustment??

Good catch though ( ...good catch.... ).

Pat

[seaotter]

When the LCP and the P3AT came out, a lot of people complained that they were accidentally hitting the mag release, dropping the mag. Some reviewers saw this as a fatal flaw in a defensive firearm. But it wasn't really a design flaw; it was just a by product of such a small pistol (along with American's dislike of heel mag releases). Eventually people adapted, Ruger and Keltec sold a whole lot of them.
I view the issue encountered by Jeremy to be the same sort of thing. If you make a tiny gun, there are going to have to be design compromises, some of which are going to impact the use of the gun. With practice, the ergonomic issues noted can be overcome. Most of the owners haven't even encountered them.
I know I have said this on several occasions, but I personally would not choose to use the Ranger or the Sidewinder as a defensive firearm. I greatly prefer the simple system used on the traditional minis. It is simple, sturdy, and predictable. But that's just me! I am sure that others will feel very comfortable using them. People who have better coordination and fine motor skills than I do!

[ikoiko]

Maybe a wider hammer spur (such as OV's) would solve the potential problem?

[heyjoe]

it could be that your latch needs to be adjusted or redone if it opens that easily. neither of mine do. or the gun may just not be for you. not every gun is for every person. or it could be a combination of both. if you know someone else who has one give it a try and see if it happens again with that gun.

on a side note....i really like your hat! haha

 

Apologies for doing a copy-and-paste, but it's midnight and I'm hitting the sack and I just typed this on YouTube...and figured it may as well go here also:

"I stand by this. Chris did it immediately -- first or second cylinder through the gun -- and I had not said a word to him about it. If I shoot the thing slowly and carefully, it doesn't happen. But if I'm giving it the ol' hard and fast cock, it happens far too often. The cylinder release is right-freakin-there and it takes a fraction of the power to break the action open than it does to cock the heavily-sprung hammer. If I have 90% of the force on the hammer and 10% overlaps onto that release, the action is opening. Keep in mind this is a Mini Revolver and it's tiny. My thumb wants to overlap like that. The natural location for it is hammer spur right in the middle of my thumb pad. That's enough to snag that release if I push down on the hammer with decent force. Which happens if I'm not specifically paying attention or shooting slowly and precisely and carefully and applying no more force than necessary to move the hammer. Basically, it happens if I'm shooting at all rapidly. I'm pretty confident it would happen in any general self-defense scenario where I'm snagging that hammer with authority. Whether left thumb or right. I'm confident it would happen to most men with average-sized fingers (or larger) in these scenarios.

Keep in mind I still think it's an exceptionally well-made gun that's a ton of fun to shoot. Great for range time! But the likelihood of accidently breaking the action open is far too high to rely on this in a scenario where you're stressed. I believe this is why the original Ranger had a different release lever that required you to lift up on it (it was too expensive for them to manufacture, though)."

...and when I said "a quarter of the time" in the video I meant about once every four cylinders through it, not once every four rounds. The first time it happened in the video it WAS on accident. The rest of the time it was semi-deliberate to make the point. But I had already put a bunch of rounds through the gun before filming the video and it was happening completely on accident prior to that. And, as mentioned above and in the video, it happened to another gun writer who's familiar with revolvers and NAA Minis, too.

Hope this helps explain it further. It's nothing personal and I'm absolutely, positively NOT out to "get" NAA or ding them or whatever. It's one of my favorite brands and it pains me to say something negative about them. I have nothing but positive reviews on their products in the past. heck, I spent a crap-ton of money to get a custom hat made for my Mini (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/12/jeremy-s/gear-review-nathaniels-custom-hats-naa-revolver-holster-hat/). Sorry I'm ruffling feathers on here, but I do stand by this and assure you other people will encounter this same issue even if you guys haven't.

And I wear men's size large gloves and I'm 6-feet tall. So I'm not exactly a circus freak or anything LOL

Cheers,

Jeremy

[redhawk4]

I have no idea how anyone does that accidentally, you have to overreach the hammer spur to even touch the latch, I've cocked my Ranger over a 1000 times without ever finding that out. I've also fired it as fast as I can and never done it including trying using the weak hand thumb to cock the hammer. Now the issue has been raised I can see how it can be made to happen, but when I reach for the hammer spur my thumb is nowhere near the latch. Perhaps its to do with hand size and how that makes you hold the gun, my hands are very big and my thumbs are wide too, but I'm not close to having that problem. Perhaps a stronger spring on the latch might be advisable though as a precaution due to Murphy's law.

[redhawk4]

I noticed when he cocks it to make it open, he is cocking the gun with the bottom half of his thumb. Does anyone here cock his/her gun that way?

No, and that's why he's having an issue, I've never cocked any gun using the joint of my thumb on the hammer spur, I always use the pad. I'm not saying what he does is wrong, but it's a different technique which then causes the issue on the Ranger which wouldn't occur on most other guns. I've tried replicating what he's doing and can do so but to me it feels completely unnatural to do it that way, rather like writing with my wrong hand. When I cock a gun I'm using the pad of my thumb to feel for the hammer, so don't understand overreaching and effectively feeling for the catch.

There are also many hammer designs on semi autos, that I don't think could be cocked like that because they don't have the hammer spur and so the pad of the thumb is the only way to cock the hammer.

[smokeless joe]

Well I'm back from the range. Put 150 rounds of ammo thru my RII today and and nearly 500 rounds total thru it since I got it and not once did I accidentally disengage the latch pin. Maybe I'm doing something wrong 

[Ruger]

Wow, great to have JeremyS join us on the Forum.  WELCOME Jeremy!

But I can't help myself in relating what my grandfather once said to me years ago when I told him why the wood shelf was a little off.  "It is the poor craftsman that blames his tools".  I have never forgotten how I felt when he said that.  And it has been such a big lesson for me in my life, being sure of what I do with what I have.

Jeremy, I assume you do not grip or shoot your Colt Python with the same grip or technique as your Desert Eagle.  Each is a different animal, and we know all take some range time to master.  I think this is the same thing here.  I do not agree that it is a "fatal flaw"; it is a feature of this firearm that one needs to master. 

But, that being said, I really appreciate your presence on the Forum here at NAA, as do many of the guys above, and hope to here from you more.

[seaotter]

I watched Jeremy's reviews of the Mini LR and the 4 inch  sidewinder. Then I watched Hickcock 45 shoot his Mini Mag, and Paul Harrel shoot both of his minis. It appeared to me as if they used the same technique as Jeremy did. I have to admit that my experience with single action revolvers is limited. I have my mini Lr and my BW. I have shot a colt SA Army a few times, and I have shot a colt BP revolver a couple of times. And of course I have shot my double action revolvers in the single action mode numerous times. But I have always used the pad of my thumb to pull the hammer back. So it is kind of surprising to see these very experienced wheel gunners using their thumb joint. Does anyone else here use that technique? Maybe the Ranger is fine, and just a line or two added to the manual stating that the pad, not the joint, be used to manipulate the hammer.

[smokeless joe]

Maybe the Ranger is fine, and just a line or two added to the manual stating that the pad, not the joint, be used to manipulate the hammer.

Kinda like the instruction manual for cruise control that says don't take your hands off the wheel after setting 

[redhawk4]

I watched Jeremy's reviews of the Mini LR and the 4 inch  sidewinder. Then I watched Hickcock 45 shoot his Mini Mag, and Paul Harrel shoot both of his minis. It appeared to me as if they used the same technique as Jeremy did. I have to admit that my experience with single action revolvers is limited. I have my mini Lr and my BW. I have shot a colt SA Army a few times, and I have shot a colt BP revolver a couple of times. And of course I have shot my double action revolvers in the single action mode numerous times. But I have always used the pad of my thumb to pull the hammer back. So it is kind of surprising to see these very experienced wheel gunners using their thumb joint. Does anyone else here use that technique? Maybe the Ranger is fine, and just a line or two added to the manual stating that the pad, not the joint, be used to manipulate the hammer.

I'm still confused about the "technique" and having looked at a few of my handguns cannot for the life of me work out why I'd want to do it that way, using the pad of the thumb works on every gun, while that way cannot be done on some,  which might create an issue if you develop the habit of doing it that way, and then switch to another gun without a hammer spur. I also noticed that while it might have been fine when I was their age, with old worn out hands and some arthritis in the joints I really don't want the hammer spur poking into that part of my thumb.

[seaotter]

I was wondering about that as well. From some angles it looks like  they are sweeping the hammer with their thumb instead of drawing it. I can see how that might work, but I tried, and it doesn't work for me!

[bbgun]

I'd like to see him pull the latch and the hammer back on mine at the same time.  It is so hard to do that it would tear the skin off his thumb down to the bone!

[smokeless joe]

All I can say is that my technique has never had the results as his in releasing the latch pin. I'm not saying he's doing it wrong or that I'm doing it right but I'm comfortable with the way I've been doing it so no need for me to change and no need to over think this any longer (speaking for myself only) as I am happy with the Rangers performance.

[Ruger]

. . . . .  So it is kind of surprising to see these very experienced wheel gunners using their thumb joint.  . . .

From where I sit, they look like kids . . . 

[linux_author]

I have a Smith and Wesson 317 (and many other Smith revolvers) and i don't use the pad of my thumb to cock the hammer - i much prefer a more precise control closer to the tip... the 317 especially, at least mine, seems like it's liable to slip in single action (this, i think, is due to the spring pull)

i use the same practice with both my NAA mini and sidewinder

what i saw in the video was not normative operation for me...

but hey, folks have different styles

willie
on the Gulf of Mexico

[RogueTS1]

This makes me wonder about his thumbing technique. This subject just made me question though; I wonder how the frame of the Ranger's would hold up to being carried in one's back pocket and being sat upon somewhat throughout the day. Anyone have any thoughts on said matter?

[redhawk4]

I have a Smith and Wesson 317 (and many other Smith revolvers) and i don't use the pad of my thumb to cock the hammer - i much prefer a more precise control closer to the tip... the 317 especially, at least mine, seems like it's liable to slip in single action (this, i think, is due to the spring pull)

i use the same practice with both my NAA mini and sidewinder

what i saw in the video was not normative operation for me...

but hey, folks have different styles

willie
on the Gulf of Mexico

Pad/tip or whatever, but to me if you look at the shape of the hammers usually fitted to revolvers its shaped to fit the end of your thumb, the tip goes into the curve, and the the spur with the checkered finish goes up against some part of the pad of your thumb depending on how big the gun/hammer is and how big you thumbs are. By doing it that way, which is IMO how the hammer shape was determined, there is also virtually no possibility of the hammer slipping out from under your thumb before it's locked back, it also gives you the best leverage.

[Ruger]

This makes me wonder about his thumbing technique. This subject just made me question though; I wonder how the frame of the Ranger's would hold up to being carried in one's back pocket and being sat upon somewhat throughout the day. Anyone have any thoughts on said matter?

Yeah;  I don't sit on my gun.   

[bill_deshivs]

When you are frantically trying to cock your Ranger 2 while someone is beating your brains out, it would be very easy to open the cylinder.

[RogueTS1]

In the warmer months I carry my Pug in a leather pocket holster in my back pocket. It gets sat on quite a bit. (Wallet Style)

[Ruger]

When you are frantically trying to cock your Ranger 2 while someone is beating your brains out, it would be very easy to open the cylinder.

Dang.  I must have missed with all 18 rounds from my Sig P226.  I hate every time that happens. 

[redhawk4]

This makes me wonder about his thumbing technique. This subject just made me question though; I wonder how the frame of the Ranger's would hold up to being carried in one's back pocket and being sat upon somewhat throughout the day. Anyone have any thoughts on said matter?

Yeah;  I don't sit on my gun.   

I don't believe in carrying a gun in a back pocket, given that where I'm from you'd be a fool to carry a wallet back there because it would be gone in heartbeat. I wouldn't want to feel something and turn around to see a thief holding my gun or even just lose it unknowingly to a criminal, so I won't be sitting on mine either.

Implying opening the BT action is inevitable when trying to cock the Ranger is rather like saying it's inevitable you'll release and drop your magazine from your pistol in the same circumstances.

[Ruger]

It really comes down to knowing your gun that you want to use to protect your life.  The problem is not a "Fatal Flaw" because your technique isn't compatible with the firearm.

If you carry one, you had better have been practicing pulling it out and doing whatever you need to do to make it go bang.  It the gun you love gets too heavy to carry, gets caught on your shirt, gets suck in your pocket, has a hard to use (or remember to use) safety, jams, chokes, pucks, or whatever, that is not the gun to be carrying around.  Enjoy it at the range.