Black Widow or Wasp?

[Canoeal]

I'm never sure which one to buy "NEXT" 

I just gave up thinking one is better than another!!  The goal now is to have ALL of them! lol!! (and 2 of some of them!)

I can certainly see why people end up going that route, but I get more satisfaction out of building and customizing a single thing than I do out of buying/collecting lots of things.  Nice holsters, btw.

I get the way you think as I do the same. I wanted to know where was the best place to start, and did not get a lot of help. I settled on the BW (which I still believe was the right choice), played around some with the grips ( made a set, modified them and switch back and forth. I am currently looking for the pug style tritium sights that will fit a BW, but nothing so far...I just keep trying to make what I think is a "good" choice for me into what I would call 'perfect'. Below is mine with both grips...

[ex-mousekateer]

Yes; among snubby carriers of the past they became known as Secret Service Grips by I believe the "American Eagle Grips Company."

Good to know.  I try to refer to things by the right name once educated. 

I get the way you think as I do the same. I wanted to know where was the best place to start, and did not get a lot of help. I settled on the BW (which I still believe was the right choice), played around some with the grips ( made a set, modified them and switch back and forth. I am currently looking for the pug style tritium sights that will fit a BW, but nothing so far...I just keep trying to make what I think is a "good" choice for me into what I would call 'perfect'. Below is mine with both grips...

Perfection is a cruel mistress, but an admirable goal...  Thanks for the pic comparing the Secret Service (!) grips and wood grips.  Those are the ones you made, I assume?  It does a nice job illustrating the different profiles.  The bottom of your wood grip is probably pretty similar to what I shaved my BW grips down to, other than the rear curvature.

Tritium sights would be pretty sweet.  From what I've seen, that's a purely custom job, right?

[Canoeal]

Yes, the grips are ones I made. As to the tritium sights; I am still looking into what will fit. Getting them is being put off, until after the foot is healed and I am back and caught up in the shop...

I think of perfection as an ongoing process...

[ex-mousekateer]

That's nice woodwork.

I forgot to ask, how do you like the Venom laser?  I wish they hadn't discontinued them, as I much prefer that style over their grip lasers.  Neither has the best reliability feedback, but the Venom blends in so perfectly and doesn't have the major drawback of being limited to Laserlyte's grip.  Not adjustable, but still...  I found one retailer that still lists them as in stock, but with the 50/50 odds of getting a good one, it's a risky proposition of being stuck with a paperweight and no others to exchange it for.

I think I'm done modifying the sights.  Just gotta get some paint on the bare metal and will post updated pictures.  With the disclaimer that I haven't shot it yet, it's a huge improvement.

[Canoeal]

The venom laser for me was a mistake. I bought one it came apart at the pin. I sent it back and they sent another. One of the pins holding the body together came out, and then it started eating batteries. the third one (second replacement) sights 4" in left of POA @ 20', and they are not adjustable... don't bother to try and find one...Part of the reason for looking for Trit sights...

Now I think it looks better without it.

[ex-mousekateer]

^^^ Ouch.  Not abnormal, per many other peoples' experiences, though.  It's a shame that Laserlyte's quality doesn't live up to NAA's reputation.

It looks more like a classic revolver without the Venom, but I'm on the fence as far as which is "better."

I didn't take a pic of the "full white" rear dots, but you can find them various places for comparison.  Here's the two stages of my modification:  1) with center black dots added to mute the rear posts, and 2) front post narrowed and rear posts turned into a wide u-notch and outer ears narrowed a bit.

This is the general profile I was going for:

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=7102114&postcount=17

Lots of good info here about post and notch size/shape, ratio, etc.:

http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/square-or-u-notch - rear sights, square or u-notch?

Excuses:  The black touch-up paint I had was too glossy, so I had to go back and re-mask everything to cover the rest of the posts...  It blends a lot better than the camera flash would suggest, although I'm certainly not claiming perfection.  I might do a tiny bit of wet sanding when it's dried more.  Likewise, the black dots are much tidier to the eye than the zoom highlights.  The eye sees the front dot in focus and the rears blurry, but the camera picks up just the opposite.

[Canoeal]

Yeah, I know what full white dots in the rear look like, I chose to make the front sight larger...

[ex-mousekateer]

Yeah, I know what full white dots in the rear look like, I chose to make the front sight larger...

I can't quite tell what you did there.  Did you grind the back of the front post down so you'd have a flat surface to extend the white dot all the way across?

ETA:  I wasn't saying "you" specifically could look up what the standard dots look like.  That was used in the general sense, for anyone reading along.  I see how that might have been confusing, combining separate thoughts into one post.

[smokeless joe]

So when you gonna make it to the range mousey? I'm anxious to see what your impression of it will be. Hopefully you'll be as happy as most other Black Widow owners.

[ex-mousekateer]

So when you gonna make it to the range mousey? I'm anxious to see what your impression of it will be. Hopefully you'll be as happy as most other Black Widow owners.

TBD.  My LR ammo arrived today; Magnum comes later this week.  As long as the gun shoots where I point it, I imagine I'll be happy.  It's obviously built well and feels good, and the ballistics are up to my expectations.  I'm mostly curious how far I can extend the accuracy for plinking fun, and to a lesser extent, practice for emergencies.

[Canoeal]

No, I just used a slightly thicker white paint over all, then a coat of luminescent white over that.

[ex-mousekateer]

I'll probably still buy a regular pocket/OWB holster, but I haven't found any driving/cross-draw holsters that quite do what I wanted (cover more of the gun, dual support points for balance, slightly angled instead of horizontal, less outward bulk, convertible), so I decided to make my own today.

I give myself an A for design, a B for execution, and a C for craftsmanship.  Not bad for the rough draft of my first ever holster.  I've only worked with leather a couple times, and I don't think I've gotten any better with experience...  I double layered the soft leather, attaching the velcro and straps to the outer layer where I guessed they should line up, then sewed the inner layer to it.  That may have been a mistake, judging from the alignment outcome.  Oh well, I never tuck in my shirt, so it won't be visible.    If I were to do it over, I'd probably connect the back side of the straps on button pivots or something.

[Rick_Jorgenson]

You took your ideas and put something together.  That gets an "A" in my book!

Have you put it to use yet?  That is the second step. 

Wear it around the house, standing, sitting if it functions how you want it to then you can build another.

Each time you make one you add an improvement or a slight change to make it better.

I find that after building 4 or 5 of an item those changes make it better looking and assemble easier.

Then you start taking orders!

[ex-mousekateer]

^^^ Thanks, a passing grade from the pro, I'll take it!

Yeah, I've worn it around the house and it works great.  It holds the BW very snug, is easy to grab the partially covered handle, releases smoothly, and rides in a good spot so as to be barely noticeable seated.

I may have fraying problems with the cotton webbing.  I used it because my nylon webbing is too flexible to provide a good "hammer lock" strap, but the cotton stuff can't be melted at the ends.  Wax sorta works, but not great.  On the plus side, the cotton webbing has the broader profile that makes it easy to grab like the more traditional leather straps.

The hammer lock strap doubles as one of the two belt straps, but the whole setup is so light (1.6 oz + 8.9 oz), there's no tendency for it to rotate when that strap is released to remove the gun.  Plus, there's the friction on it from being sandwiched between the belt.  The hammer strap is a bit less convenient in "convertible" mode for pocket carry, but unfolded it exactly follows the grip shape and the velcro starts right at the end of the grip.  Maybe I can come up with some sort of pocket lanyard system.  Of course, the hammer is covered in that setup, but not locked in place.

I don't see myself investing in proper leather sewing (and stamping) equipment for mass production, and as I'm sure you know, it's *** tough to make leather stitching look good on a regular sewing machine.

[glenn]

Try a little "Super-Glue" on those edges to prevent fraying Mousey.



.

[ikoiko]

There is also a product called "Fray check" available in sewing/various stores.

[ex-mousekateer]

Super glue works on soft stuff, huh?  I wouldn't have guessed that.  (Kudos for focusing on the message, not the messenger.)

I'm not familiar with Fray Check.  I was just in the craft section picking up some neon green paint for the front sight...

[glenn]

Don't get the "Gel" stuff ... you want the thin runny stuff that soaks in.
I once fixed a 2 piece pool cue stick that was broken at the ferrule ... by soaking Super Glue into the wood till it would not absorb any more ... then sticking the parts together & clamping overnight.  I used the cue for years after that.  Got busted up in a bar fight one night I wasn't there.

.

[OV-1D]

  Geeese ! Finally something else to talk about besides them there old guns .

[ex-mousekateer]

Don't get the "Gel" stuff ... you want the thin runny stuff that soaks in.

I would have guessed just the opposite.  I've never had much luck with the thin, runny Super/Krazy glues adhering anything other than smooth, solid surfaces.  I usually use Gorilla Glue or various epoxies for their ability to flow/fill irregularities.  That seems more gel-like.

[glenn]

Well ..... try it .......... or not.

.

[ex-mousekateer]

My Super Glue tubes were all dried up, but I had some E6000 on the shelf, which claims to work on fabric.  It needs a day or two to fully dry, but it looks like it'll do the job.

I went over the black paint again on the sights and added a dab an hour of neon green to the front dot, using the thinnest of detail brushes.  It can take a few more coats still tomorrow, but it literally takes a pin prick's worth of paint per "coat" to fill the dot, so it's slow going.

I can already see the first attempt at refinishing the sights was short lived, having already rubbed off in places from holster test fitting.  So much for automotive touch-up paint...  We'll see if this time works better with crafts paint.  If not, I may have to look for brush-on self-etching primer to get it stick better.

[Canoeal]

Those Warren tactical (I hate the overuse of that word) sights, you posted a a link to, are tritium sights...

[ex-mousekateer]

Those Warren tactical (I hate the overuse of that word) sights, you posted a a link to, are tritium sights...

I'm just trying to replicate the sight picture and dot brightness.  I know I won't be able to capture the low light visibility.

The neon green dot is getting brighter and brighter with each hourly paint droplet...

[ex-mousekateer]

Playing with point-and-click camera focal length, zoom, and flash, I was able to capture a better impression of what it looks like to the eye now.  With and without flash:

[PaducahMichael]

Looks pretty darned good to me! That's a really easy to see front sight now.

[Mickey]

Back on the first page somthing was said about the Pug not having a LR barrel for it. I talked with NAA and will drive by Provo next trip in that direction for a fitted LR barrel for $50 and about 30 mins of time if they are not backed up.

[ex-mousekateer]

Thanks. As long as the paint holds up, I'm very pleased with the end result.  I also picked up some similarly bright green nail polish with hardeners, but I figured I'd try the neon crafts paint first for more daylight pop.

[RogueTS1]

Looks well done and very effective Mousey.

[ex-mousekateer]

Back on the first page somthing was said about the Pug not having a LR barrel for it. I talked with NAA and will drive by Provo next trip in that direction for a fitted LR barrel for $50 and about 30 mins of time if they are not backed up.

I nearly missed this.  Have I mentioned how much I hate the probational policy and how it buries replies once they finally show up?!  Mickey responding to mousey, nice.

I believe all the Magnum frames can have a LR conversion cylinder added by the factory?  That's convenient for you, being close enough to do so in person.

Looks well done and very effective Mousey.

Thanks.

[JRobyn]

Back on the first page somthing was said about the Pug not having a LR barrel for it. I talked with NAA and will drive by Provo next trip in that direction for a fitted LR barrel for $50 and about 30 mins of time if they are not backed up.

It's not the barrel, just the cylinder.  The bullet for .22LR and .22WMR are the same but the magnum cartridge is larger in both length and diameter.

[smokeless joe]

Back on the first page somthing was said about the Pug not having a LR barrel for it. I talked with NAA and will drive by Provo next trip in that direction for a fitted LR barrel for $50 and about 30 mins of time if they are not backed up.

I sent my Pug back and had it fitted for the lr cylinder. Cheaper to practice shooting

[ex-mousekateer]

Version 2 of the driving holster, now with pivoting snaps (the lone cost of the project, roughly 50 cents ea) and German leather, plus narrower (1") heavy duty webbing to lock in between the hammer and grip and a full span of velcro for multiple anchor points:

[Canoeal]

Well done.

[ex-mousekateer]

Range report:  I put 55 rounds of standard velocity CCI LR and 5 rounds of Speer Gold Dot Magnum through the Black Widow with zero malfunctions.

I flinched a few times, expecting mild kick but experiencing virtually none (only very minimal kick with the Magnums), so had a couple shots that might have missed a human sized target.  I didn't bother shooting anything inside 10 yards, because that just seemed way too easy.

At 10 to 15 yards, I consistently grouped in the 3-4" range, including a bulls eye so pure that even Robin Hood would have been impressed.  At 20 yards, it tended to open up to torso sized spreads, mostly from an inconsistent shot or two.  I finished with a 30 yard test of the LR's, taking extra time to aim.  That resulted in a ~8" wide spread over a ~1.5' vertical span.  I didn't expect anything nearly that good, either from the gun itself or from my first time shooting anything remotely of the sort.