Would a NAA revolver in .32 be possible, worth considering?

oughtsix · May-09-18 23:05

I have only owned my NAA 22's for a few days but already love them! It makes me wonder if it would be possible to scale one up a bit and chamber it in a 32 revolver round... like .32 S&W long or .32 H&R mag? Would those rounds be too much for the NAA design scaled up? Could they scale it up and still keep it smaller than other pocket guns to make it worth producing one? Would a .32 S&W have a big advantage over the .22 mag? Just pondering.

My Guardian in .32 acp has always been reliable... but it is hard to beat a revolver for reliability!

SteveZ-FL · May-10-18 06:05

This topic was addressed a while ago. The powers-that-be described some of the engineering concerns which made the idea not economically feasible.

One good thing. .22LR and .22WMR ammunition keeps improving with better loads and bullet designs. As their balistic tests show, the NAA minis seem to be well suited to handle just about every type of ammunition available.

RogueTS1 · May-10-18 07:05

Supposedly the SD rounds in .22 mag these days have very similar ballistics to .380 acp ammo.

oughtsix · May-10-18 09:05

Quote from: RogueTS1 on May-10-18 07:05
Supposedly the SD rounds in .22 mag these days have very similar ballistics to .380 acp ammo.

I have read this many times. Having recently purchased and shot my NAA revolver in .22 mag I came to the conclusion that I would not want to be standing in front of it when it went off! I find it much easier to sit at my desk all day with the NAA .22 mag in my pocket than I did with my LCP. As much as I love my .32 Guardian it is just to heavy to have in my pocket at work every day... I can't keep my pants up!

I will have to do some searching and see what the opinions on a .32 revolver cartridge were.

bearcatter · May-10-18 09:05

The Ranger II would be great in .32. Quicker to unload/reload would be a plus for SD. I might have almost considered it over my Guardian.

Even so, I've pestered Ruger for years for a Bearcat size break-top .22 in DA. Ranger size is just a bit small to me for range fun.

And I'm one of many who'd like a .22LR Guardian.

bill_deshivs · May-10-18 10:05

What .22 WMR does best in a mini revolver is "loud."
It loses much velocity in tiny barrels-even the new "short barrel" loads.

A tiny revolver in .32 ACP is a very feasible project for the right manufacturer. .32 ACP is more powerful than both .32 S&W and .32 S&W long.
NAA made the mistake of trying to design a revolver in .32 H&R magnum. This cartridge is entirely too long for a pocket pistol, and the loading is not optimized for ultra short barrels.

oughtsix · May-10-18 11:05

Quote from: bearcatter on May-10-18 09:05
The Ranger II would be great in .32. Quicker to unload/reload would be a plus for SD. I might have almost considered it over my Guardian.

Even so, I've pestered Ruger for years for a Bearcat size break-top .22 in DA. Ranger size is just a bit small to me for range fun.

And I'm one of many who'd like a .22LR Guardian.

A .32 rimmed center fire would be really nice in a break top mini revolver like the Ranger! Even a Sidewinder in .32 would be very cool!

SteveZ-FL · May-10-18 11:05

Quote from: bill_deshivs on May-10-18 10:05
What .22 WMR does best in a mini revolver is "loud."
It loses much velocity in tiny barrels-even the new "short barrel" loads.

A tiny revolver in .32 ACP is a very feasible project for the right manufacturer. .32 ACP is more powerful than both .32 S&W and .32 S&W long.
NAA made the mistake of trying to design a revolver in .32 H&R magnum. This cartridge is entirely too long for a pocket pistol, and the loading is not optimized for ultra short barrels.

The .22WMR as "loud" is an understatement, compared to the .22LR.. The first time I fired my .22WMR 1 1/8 I thought it blew up. The tremendous report is a good thing if one expects it. The person at the wrong end rarely knows what's coming out the barrel, and their senses can be shocked by the loudness of the bang. That shock has great value in bringing a bad situation to an end.

If one really wants to see how much the firing of a .22WMR 1 1/8 can shock an undesirable person, fire the weapon at night. Not only is the sound amplified as sound is at night, but about a foot of flame appears to come out the barrel as well. The combination can be quite intimidating.

smokeless joe · May-10-18 12:05

I haven't had any experience with any 32 caliber weapons but I think the added weight in my pocket would probably make me glad I had a 22 magnum to fall back on for edc.

bearcatter · May-10-18 16:05

If you want a small SA .32 revolver, two smiths, Alan Horton and David Clements, do conversions on Ruger Bearcats. You can even shoot the new .327 magnum. Costs a bit of green, though. I understand their waiting lists are several months long.

oughtsix · May-10-18 16:05

My interest would be in a mini revolver. A full sized revolver in .32 would not be of much use to me. I actually have a Nagant 1895 revolver in 7.63 x 38R. Great revolver but pretty stiff double action trigger... due to the gas seal cylinder action.

I see a very rich line up of NAA mini revolvers. The sidewinder is interesting and so is the Ranger if it is reliable. I would jump on a mini revolver in .32 if it were small enough to pocket! But if a mini revolver in a .32 rimmed cartridge isn't practical I can understand this. I guess I was just curious if a mini in .32 rimmed would be practical?

theysayimnotme · May-10-18 21:05

Where is that thingy with the guy beating a dead horse? We have been over this MANY times in the past. I think most of us were thinking of a scaled up mini in .32 ACP but NAA came up with the Earl in I believe .32 magnum. They finally gave up on it with only a tool room model. They then used the name for another pistol.

Uncle_Lee · May-11-18 03:05

.32 acp mini............................

smokeless joe · May-11-18 04:05

Quote from: theysayimnotme on May-10-18 21:05
Where is that thingy with the guy beating a dead horse? We have been over this MANY times in the past. I think most of us were thinking of a scaled up mini in .32 ACP but NAA came up with the Earl in I believe .32 magnum. They finally gave up on it with only a tool room model. They then used the name for another pistol.

Canoeal · May-11-18 08:05

For even a .32 the cylinder would have to be enlarged and so the whole gun. There are already J-framed sized guns available in 32 H&R mag and 327, so why?

cbl51 · May-11-18 09:05

Quote from: Canoeal on May-11-18 08:05
For even a .32 the cylinder would have to be enlarged and so the whole gun. There are already J-framed sized guns available in 32 H&R mag and 327, so why?

THIS!!^^^^

The whole point of the mini is, it's a mini. If I want to move up, I have a J frame I'll carry. With a mild wadcutter load its a nice mild shooter with more oomph than a .32. But never as easy to carry as a mini!

bill_deshivs · May-11-18 11:05

Because if the gun were designed around .32acp, it would be 1/2 to 2/3 the size of a "J" frame-that's why!

They made .32 acp revolvers in the early 1900s. They were smaller than some of the NAA magnum models made now.
.32 acp is a semi-rimmed cartridge, and is more powerful than S&W .32 long.

Uncle_Lee · May-11-18 14:05

Why would I want a .32 acp mini since it would larger than a mini?
Because it would be made by North American Arms.....!!!!

Canoeal · May-11-18 14:05

Nothing like pushing a company to do what it is not prepared to do...and then complain when it doesn't work out the way your minds imagine it should.
Come on guys, enough of this crap. You want a .32 using the acp round? Buy a Guardian.

bill_deshivs · May-11-18 19:05

No one is "pushing" anyone to make anything. It's just a discussion.

As I said, the guns have already been made-a hundred years ago. They were tiny then, and they would still be tiny if made now. It has nothing to do with how my mind imagines it should work out. It's been done-quite a bit.

NAA started with the .22 short. They have lengthened the frame for .22 lr, then for .22 WMR. Then they added longer barrel lengths, then a top break version. The "mini" revolver has grown quite a bit over the original "mini."

And NAA tried making a .32 magnum "mini," which was doomed from the start=both mechanically and cosmetically. If they did their research (or if another company did) someone could make a small pocket gun in .32 acp caliber. I believe it would sell, and so do a lot of other people.

Dinadan · May-11-18 20:05

I do think that trying to make a .32 mini revolver for one of the magnum rounds was a mistake. I would love to get a .32 mini in either S&W .32 long or .32 ACP. Honestly, I have zero interest in shooting a mini loaded with either of the .32 magnum rounds. I think it would hurt!

I know we have beat this topic to death more than once on this forum, and I do not expect to ever see NAA produce a .32 mini. It would be interesting if someone else were to make a .32 revolver scaled down to the minimum size for a five round cylinder. I do not want something like Ruger's LCR with a cylinder sized for .357 but bored for smaller rounds - I want a revolver designed for .32 and nothing else.

Canoeal · May-11-18 20:05

Seeing as how the manufacturers that make .32 revolvers, have been dropping them over the last few years except in the .327 rounds, I don't not feel designing a new one is likely to happen. Charter Arms his down to 3 versions of one model, S&W dropped the airweight in 32 H&R, Ruger only makes the .327s at the moment, unless the make a single action that I missed. Just Sayin'...

bill_deshivs · May-11-18 21:05

That's because all of those .32 revolvers are made on .38 special frames.
A .32acp revolver sized to the cartridge would be very small-small enough to easily carry in your pocket, unlike a "J" frame S&W or similar.

PaducahMichael · May-11-18 21:05

Is it true that .327 can fire .32 H&R mag, .32 S&W long and .32 S&W short? That would certainly be versatile!

LHB · May-11-18 22:05

Read once that the old Colt Pocket Positive, a 32, was one of the greatest pocket pistols ever made.

theysayimnotme · May-11-18 23:05

Quote from: bill_deshivs on May-11-18 19:05

And NAA tried making a .32 magnum "mini," which was doomed from the start=both mechanically and cosmetically. If they did their research (or if another company did) someone could make a small pocket gun in .32 acp caliber. I believe it would sell, and so do a lot of other people.

Now I remember the term I couldn't recall when I posted above. Rube Goldberg. That was my impression of the original Earl.
They missed the obvious, KISS.

Uncle_Lee · May-12-18 03:05

Quote from: Canoeal on May-11-18 14:05
Nothing like pushing a company to do what it is not prepared to do...and then complain when it doesn't work out the way your minds imagine it should.
Come on guys, enough of this crap. You want a .32 using the acp round? Buy a Guardian.

I have 4 now.
They are not minis.

SteveZ-FL · May-12-18 05:05

For me, part of the decision process these days in acquiring a new firearm is the availability of ammunition in that particular configuration. It kept me from getting a .17 mini and a .25NAA Guardian. I imagine most manufacturers these days are also following the ammunition-availability forecasts even more than ever, considering the experiences the past few years with manipulated shortages. Trying to sell a firearm which requires limited-production ammunition is tough.

A couple years ago I was given a mint-condition .32 revolver (H&R 732) which the original owner didn't want snymore for personal reasons. It's great small revolver, but requires .32 S&W ammunition. Finding that ammunition during the recent "ammo drought" was close to impossible. Even today the choices are very limited (wadcutters or soft lead), online suppliers only and pricey. As a result, while the H&R is kept cleaned and oiled, it is rarely fired due to limited ammo availability.

NAA appears to have recognized that making firearms whuch require specialty ammunition made to fit mainly NAA products or other ammunition not commonly stocked at local retailers may not be a smart business decision. The .22LR and.22WMR firearms sell very well (original and resale), and one of the reasons is the ammunition is common stock.

Sure, I would like to see a .32 mini, even if it was a 4-shot, but I can appreciate the costs involved in design, prototyping and testing (which may or may not succeed), followed by tooling needed for a qualified production line - all in the hope that the perceived market doesn't disappear due to fickle ammunition availability. Business is business, and NAA products are indeed dependent on how ammunition manufacturers respond to market demands and government "help."

grayelky · May-12-18 05:05

Quote from: PaducahMichael on May-11-18 21:05
Is it true that .327 can fire .32 H&R mag, .32 S&W long and .32 S&W short? That would certainly be versatile!

Yes, it can. All of those cartridges are simply a lengthened 32 S&W short. I have never had the chance to try it, but I have read many times in these pages the 32 ACP will also fire in a 32 revolver.

heyjoe · May-12-18 10:05

Quote from: grayelky on May-12-18 05:05
Quote from: PaducahMichael on May-11-18 21:05
Is it true that .327 can fire .32 H&R mag, .32 S&W long and .32 S&W short? That would certainly be versatile!
Yes, it can. All of those cartridges are simply a lengthened 32 S&W short. I have never had the chance to try it, but I have read many times in these pages the 32 ACP will also fire in a 32 revolver.

32 acp will fire in most 32 h&r magnum or .327 revolvers but not all. some models are hit and miss depending on the individual revolver.

SteveZ-FL · May-12-18 15:05

Quote from: grayelky on May-12-18 05:05
Quote from: PaducahMichael on May-11-18 21:05
Is it true that .327 can fire .32 H&R mag, .32 S&W long and .32 S&W short? That would certainly be versatile!
Yes, it can. All of those cartridges are simply a lengthened 32 S&W short. I have never had the chance to try it, but I have read many times in these pages the 32 ACP will also fire in a 32 revolver.

Chamber pressure becomes an issue when using commercial ammunition designed for a different firearm. The max average chamber pressure for .32 S&W Long is 15,000 psi, while for .32 ACP it's 20,500 psi. That is a +34% difference; +P ammunition is generally in the +10% difference range and many firearms manuals specifically warn not to use +P ammunition.

I have all the respect in the world for folk who reload their own ammunition. There are folk who say they reload .32 ACP brass for use in .32 S&W Long revolvers and keep the loads within the .32 S&W chamber pressure limits. I don't reload, so I rely on the data provided by firearms and ammunition manufacturers regarding use of their products.

Overstressing chambers is not a wise practice which has obvious risks. I will stick with ammunition manufactured for the firearm rather than experiment with a cheaper alternative. Chamber pressure data is openly available at the SAAMI website for those interested.

heyjoe · May-12-18 16:05

there is no danger in firing a 32 acp cartridge in a revolver chambered for 32 H&R magnum or .327. Their maximum pressure is higher than 32 acp and in the case of .327 much higher.

Canoeal · May-12-18 18:05

What is the pressure for a .32 H&R mag?

ikoiko · May-12-18 20:05

Saami

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf

zburkett · May-13-18 04:05

One of the problems is the semi rimmed .32acp will fit in almost any .32. A manufacturer has to worry that some idiot with a lawyer will stick a P+ into whatever they make and pull the trigger. It will go off but might to blow up a weak gun. There are a lot of small .32 revolvers made in the late 1800s that will chamber a .32acp, just don't fire them. As for me, I would like even a small single shot capable of handling P+ acp but the reality is I've never run into a situation that a .32 might handle and a .22 mag wouldn't.