NAA company longevity?

[bearcatter]

NAA has a somewhat limited niche market, just a dozen mini revolvers and two semi-auto pistols, basically. Every product has a "saturation point", where everyone that wants one has one. Demand, and sales, can drop dramatically after that. NAA is also 45 years old, and Sandy is likely approaching retirement (or past?). I wonder if there are any contingency plans for the future?

It's a good thing the minis are addictive, so more will sell over time.

[Ruger]

Most good companies have a succession plan, and yes, Sandy might be ready to retire, but he has only owned NAA since November of 1991 (27 years).  I can't imagine he is ready to hang it up yet!

And yes, it may be a niche market, but as long as they continue to evolve and offer new models, IMHO the company can sustain itself.

[Bj]

NAA will do fine with good customer service, quality products, and with adjusting to what the customer wants.  Whatever sells best is the guide for the future.   If better sights like the BW and Pug are hot, then gradually put such sights on more models.  If attached cylinders for reloads are hot like the SW and R2, then move in that direction with future models.  If people want an option for supressor ready threaded barrels, then add that option.  My 2 cents.

[Warthog]

I never really thought about it much.  I have been owning/shooting these little guns since Freedom Arms made them.  I thought they might be a flash in the pan when NAA brought them out after Freedom.  I bought a few of them and then I forgot about them for a bit, then returned to trying to get new ones to fill out my collection.  Now and then I go into a frenzy and buy a bunch of them just to have around then I wind up giving one or selling a few just because someone shot one with me and decided he/she wanted to own one...

I hope the Ranger II gives the company a good strong boost.  They really are nice little carry guns or BUGs or collectibles or just plain fun guns.  I know they seem to keep me checking things out, looking for some sort of newness to the line and reading here and on the website bout developments.  I love them, so I hope the company keeps on keeping on.

[cbl51]

I think that NAA is neglecting a huge untapped market with more and more people getting carry license. I now that three young to middle age ladies here in the Georgetown area has bought mini's because they were introduced to them by my better half. They had no idea that anything so small was available and the local gun shop guru idiots wouldn't talk about them nor stock them.

Each of these women initially bought guns that were just too big for them to carry, and two out of the three have sold the guru recommended guns and bought a Black widow and a pug each. One kept the Glock 9mm for home defense, but bought a Black Widow to carry.

NAA needs to advertise in places where women interested in self defense but are NOT gun people or have hubbies that are not gun people, will see them. Outside of the gun circles, they are totally unknown.

[Bigbird48]

Yes the Ladies love these little guns and I have a riding friend that carrys a big 44mag in a shoulder holster looking at the minis he's 70+ and says 44 is just to big for him now, he looking at a BW

[smokeless joe]

I guess I never really gave it much thought. They seem to have always "been there" figured they always "be there" in one shape or form. Time will tell I suppose. Now where's my coffee 

[WECSOG]

Pietta is doing a bang-up business selling 1858 Remington clones and variations of same. 'Nuff said.

[RICKS PLACE]

First, there is no one that cannot be replaced.  I would guess there are many ready to take over if Sandy should retire. (Not knocking Sandy, I felt I would be hard to replace, next day it was as I was never there.)  Second, seems the NAA type mini is becoming more common place in today's society.  Now, look at the less known companies, many appear on the verge of shut down, but still are going.  Remington is chap 11, (I think that is what they declared,) still selling guns however.  Colt ?, still putting out guns.  I can still get most parts for my Mod. "D" Det special.  In fact, I saw some parts for a High Standard derringer on the net a while back.  There is a gunsmith guru in my area that can do most anything needed to a NAA mini.   Don't really see NAA going under in the forseeable future.

[bearcatter]

So maybe NAA should advertise in Glamour, Good Housekeeping, or Cosmopolitan? Sounds okay, if they'd take the ads? I wonder how many NAAs ladies buy after a chance discussion at the hair salon, lunch break at work, or PTA meeting?

NAA has a solid reputation for their fit, finish, and designs. Dedicated to the smallest possible high quality gun for the caliber. You can't get more "convenient, reliable, effective!" concealed carry than that. I'd just hate to see it go the way of some companies where a change of ownership or management could change their chosen direction and dedication. I feel sure Sandy would never knowingly let that happen.

The Ranger II has added to the learning curve for new models, and will hopefully smooth the way for the next new ones.

Ruger is a fair example of poor changes. Once Bill passed, and the company went public, it seems the bean counters and lawyers took over. I know he'd roll in his grave over the current company. I like my Rugers, but all were designed under his say. I don't care for the "trendy" post-Bill models at all.

[PaducahMichael]

Worried about NAA longevity? Buy (at least) one of each NOW - before they disappear.

I'm not worried - I'm pretty sure they will outlast me. And then y'all can fight over my minis!

[cbl51]

So maybe NAA should advertise in Glamour, Good Housekeeping, or Cosmopolitan? Sounds okay, if they'd take the ads? I wonder how many NAAs ladies buy after a chance discussion at the hair salon, lunch break at work, or PTA meeting?

If that's what it takes, then YES!

Lets face it, we knew of then because most the people on this forum are shooters. Unfortunately, there's a ton of new shooters that have never b been involved in the gun world, don't know jack squat and jack's on vacation in Vegas. With 40 of the 50 states now having CCW laws, that means new shooters interested in self defense. When we signed up for our class after moving to Texas, it was backed up a few months with new applicants. Of those that we took the class with, at least 40 to 50% of them were females from early 20's to 60ish. When the instructor asked those who had never shot a gun to raise their hands, almost all the women raised their hands. They all had guns that the gun shop had sold them and all ranged from Sig 228's and Glock 26's and 19. Good guns, but where is a lady going to carry a Glock 19 in a summer dress on a 100 degree day? For that matter, where is a guy going to carry it in shorts and t-shirt on a 100 degree day? A few had Ruger LCP's and Kel-Techs compact little guns.

Women, and a heck of a lot of young men don't know guns anymore. A few young guys were total novices to shooting, but recognized that they need to take responsibility to protect themselves. One young guy had been talked into a Beretta 92 by the gun shop guru because "It was what the military carries so you know its a good one." 

I think NAA needs to somehow get the word out to the great unwashed masses about a tiny little gun that will fit in even a side pocket on a light weight dress or shorts. It will always be there.

Maybe they need to do some seminars at shooting ranges, or advertise in Cosmopolitan if that's what it takes. I think NAA would sell like hot dogs at the ball game if the non gun people knew they were out there. I wish I had a quarter for every time I took my mini out on a ranger and someone would come over and ask "What the heck is that?" They've never seen one.

Everyone who has seen and handled mine has wanted one and went out and bought one. The few that didn't were of the "A .22 is hardly better than a sharp stick" crowd.

Sandy needs to go to some guns shows and do some free shooting seminars. And advertise in Cosmo if they can.

[User7]

I wouldn't worry about NAA as long as they're a niche market and not a public corporation.  They've got a company culture of excellence vs a culture of profits above all else.  Example - Chik Fil A vs Bojangles.  I can go to any CFA and will get outstanding service and consistent food.  I love Bojangle's food - I will have to pick and choose the restaurant as in my experience about 2/3 of them are terrible.  Or look what happened to Remington and Marlin after they were bought out several years ago...

[PaducahMichael]

I've always wondered why corporations will buy a highly successful company and then change everything around. By the time they finish, they have removed everything that made the purchased company successful in the first place - I guess they just milk the name for as long as possible, pocket the profits and then spit out the company when they're done sucking it dry.

Probably ANOTHER reason I'll never be wealthy in terms of money. It's not my main motivation. I would love to own a company like NAA and NEVER sell it as "NAA". If someone buys it and changes it, they should change the name as  well.

[cbl51]

I've always wondered why corporations will buy a highly successful company and then change everything around. By the time they finish, they have removed everything that made the purchased company successful in the first place - I guess they just milk the name for as long as possible, pocket the profits and then spit out the company when they're done sucking it dry.

Probably ANOTHER reason I'll never be wealthy in terms of money. It's not my main motivation. I would love to own a company like NAA and NEVER sell it as "NAA". If someone buys it and changes it, they should change the name as  well.

That's noting news in the American business model of doing things. It's all about short term profit and the heck with reputation and quality. Look what happened to Harley Davidson. Got bought out by AMF when they were doing badly and AMF bled Tham like a vampire, toking aside a bloodless corpse when they were done. Same for Schrade and Marlin. The Marlin 39 used to be THE premier .22 rifle, but as Marlin went down in quality, and then bought out by Remington, it's went from junk to not even made anymore.

All the corporation types care about now is to stuff enough money in their pockets to buy a golf estate in Palm Springs when they sell off what's left of the company they looted.

[MR_22]

I know lots of people who knew nothing about NAA's firearms just 10 years ago, but have multiple NAA models now. I actually  think they are expanding their niche market and have been for the past 2 decades, at least, maybe more. And, of course, there are lots of collectors out there like me to keep buying more and more of them. I don't think my collection can even get saturated with NAA's. At least not until I have one of each, and maybe not even then.

If they keep making great firearms, people will keep buying them.

[bearcatter]

"If they keep making great firearms, people will keep buying them."

Exactly!

[LHB]

Read an article years ago by John Deloren (not sure of spelling) from before he got in trouble with his stainless gull wing car.  He said that a major problem in corporate America was a lack of loyalty, by both labor and management to the company.   He said that management was only interested in showing a profit this year, to look good on the resume, even though the plant might be falling down around their ears, because when the roof collapsed, they intended to be working for some other company.

Then you have the corporate raiders, like the man several years ago who bought "Sunbeam" and "Black & Decker", among others, and all he wanted was the names.   Closed the plants in The U.S. and imported poor quality from China, and made a killing for a few years until the buying public woke up to what he had done, and then he sold the "names" and got out of the business.

[grayelky]

I don't think there is much of a chance NAA will run out of customers. Just yesterday I sold  LR to man who had been made aware of the Minis, but never thought they would be of any use to him. I only wonder how long before he buys a magnum. I am constantly selling to first time buyers. As to the LGS not stocking/promoting the minis, its simple: There is a very low profit margin on them.

[Kevin55]

Due to the cost of selling handgun models, only the 1-1/8 22mag, 1-1/8 22mag and MiniMaster are sold in California.  I think they could sell a lot of Black Widows if they put up the ridiculous amount of money to certify them.  Kel-Tec told CA to shove it.

I would like to see a Guardian .32 with a plastic frame and 22mag with 2" or 2.5" barrel.

[bearcatter]

Due to the cost of selling handgun models, only the 1-1/8 22mag, 1-1/8 22mag and MiniMaster are sold in California.  I think they could sell a lot of Black Widows if they put up the ridiculous amount of money to certify them.  Kel-Tec told CA to shove it.

I would like to see a Guardian .32 with a plastic frame and 22mag with 2" or 2.5" barrel.

A Guardian with a plastic frame? Auugghhh! Then it would be like everyone else's!!! All stainless is maybe the best feature, and one of the bigger reasons I bought my 32, besides it being .32 ACP.

I would very much like to see it in .22LR, for cheaper practice and simple range fun.

[WECSOG]

Ruger is a fair example of poor changes. Once Bill passed, and the company went public, it seems the bean counters and lawyers took over. I know he'd roll in his grave over the current company. I like my Rugers, but all were designed under his say. I don't care for the "trendy" post-Bill models at all.

I like the changes Ruger has made. I carry my LCR every day. Enjoy shooting my Super Redhawk in .480, which was introduced after Bill's death. And my Single-Seven in .327 Federal Mag. And I'm happy that Ruger is now making AR-type rifles. And Super Blackhawks in .454 Casull and .480 Ruger. And the smaller frame Blackhawks again, as well as Vaqueros with the same smaller frame, including versions in .44 Special.

Bill made a career of snubbing us gun owners. He flatly refused to make the guns a huge number of us constantly asked for, such as a reintroduction of the .357 (original) frame size Blackhawk and more specifically a .44 Special on that frame size. Also a 5-shot version of the larger frame Blackhawk, chambered for something more powerful than .44 Mag.

And he aligned quite closely with anti-gunners. He didn't think we mere citizens should be allowed to own military style semi autos or any magazines holding over 10 rounds, and actively pushed for legislation banning same. That's why he wouldn't build an AR type rifle: he wanted them banned. He didn't even want to sell us the Mini-14, and only relented once he realized that military contracts were not forthcoming and police sales would not be enough to offset the time and money he had spent developing and setting up production. But he refused to sell us reasonable capacity magazines for them to the day he died.
He tried to make his semi auto 9mm and .40 carbine police only, too. He marketed them almost exclusively to police departments, which is probably why they were for the most part a commercial flop.

The Ruger of today actually embraces us gun owners and tries to give us what we want. I appreciate that, and show my appreciation by buying their products.

[smokeless joe]

Ruger is a fair example of poor changes. Once Bill passed, and the company went public, it seems the bean counters and lawyers took over. I know he'd roll in his grave over the current company. I like my Rugers, but all were designed under his say. I don't care for the "trendy" post-Bill models at all.

I like the changes Ruger has made. I carry my LCR every day. Enjoy shooting my Super Redhawk in .480, which was introduced after Bill's death. And my Single-Seven in .327 Federal Mag. And I'm happy that Ruger is now making AR-type rifles. And Super Blackhawks in .454 Casull and .480 Ruger. And the smaller frame Blackhawks again, as well as Vaqueros with the same smaller frame, including versions in .44 Special.

Bill made a career of snubbing us gun owners. He flatly refused to make the guns a huge number of us constantly asked for, such as a reintroduction of the .357 (original) frame size Blackhawk and more specifically a .44 Special on that frame size. Also a 5-shot version of the larger frame Blackhawk, chambered for something more powerful than .44 Mag.

And he aligned quite closely with anti-gunners. He didn't think we mere citizens should be allowed to own military style semi autos or any magazines holding over 10 rounds, and actively pushed for legislation banning same. That's why he wouldn't build an AR type rifle: he wanted them banned. He didn't even want to sell us the Mini-14, and only relented once he realized that military contracts were not forthcoming and police sales would not be enough to offset the time and money he had spent developing and setting up production. But he refused to sell us reasonable capacity magazines for them to the day he died.
He tried to make his semi auto 9mm and .40 carbine police only, too. He marketed them almost exclusively to police departments, which is probably why they were for the most part a commercial flop.

The Ruger of today actually embraces us gun owners and tries to give us what we want. I appreciate that, and show my appreciation by buying their products.

Wow I did not know this about him/ruger. I've always liked the ruger brand but had I know that info back in the day I would have probably bought another brand. Oh well that's history now.

[linux_author]

the Ruger of today, thanks to its publically traded status and board of directors, is beholden to liberal, Left-wing, anti-gun activist shareholders, such as Blackrock, and has capitulated on producing documents aimed at hindering its reputation and raising its corporate liabilities

i'm gonna stick with privately owned gun manufacturers from now on...

willie
on the Gulf of Mexico

[cbl51]

Yeah, Ruger needs to be boycotted. In bed with anti gun liberals, lets not buy another single gun from them. Oh, while we're at it, lets boycott Smith and Wesson too, since they made that deal with the Clintons to survive the law suits that were going to kill the company. Nah, not another S&W! Hey, didn't Walther make guns for the Nazi's? Lets boycott them too while we're at it. Lets not leave out Colt, that made all those guns for the blue bellies that invaded the south and put good ol Jeff Davis in jail.

Yeah, lets put all those gun companies in jeopardy so we help the anti gun liberals and do their job for them! Heck, lets all go back to slingshots. It worked on Goliath. There's a fine example of shot placement!

Come on people, lets get real! Yeah, Bill Ruger may have been a bit much in his companies politics, but it's still an American gun company under constant threat from the same anti's that threaten us. Bill Ruger is dead and gone like John Brown. That was then and this is now. Or it should be. Is Ruger that bad a company giving us the GP100, SP101, LCR, LCP, LC9 and other fine guns that have nothing to do with Bill Ruger? And quite frankly Bill Ruger's guns like the Blackhawk and single six, Bearcat, are very fine guns that need to be owned and shot. Shot a lot. Find me another gun I can carry on a hike that will fire .357, .38 special, and 9mm in one gun.

Bill Ruger's politics may have been a bit hincky, but he gave us some fine guns and the company still does. Ruger service is second to none. If we go back and pick out every thing that has a mixed history we'll be back in the Stone Age.

There's a lot of stuff that needs to be filed in the "that was then and this is now" kind of spot. How many of you are driving Japanese cars? The nasty little nips bombed Pearl Harbor, so we should all drive American made cars no matter how bad they may be. Right? This kind of nonsense can go on forever if you let it. I prefer to live in the present. Support your American gun companies or let the anti's win.

[Warthog]

Yeah, Ruger really has been a disappointment lately with the way they do business and the load of crap they have released later and much higher prices.

Ruger was, at least for some time, my Go To maker if I thought to get a gun of a specific caliber or some such, I would always look at the Ruger site first.  Not now though, they don't really make much I had hoped they would plus they discontinue stuff far before my LGS's can even get onto lists with the "allotment" system they use for the newer guns.

Only things they make now I like are 327FM revolvers and I think I own the ones I want of the caliber already so that's done....

[bearcatter]

You can tell I like Rugers from my signature. But mine all began under his watch. The GP and SP revolvers, and other revolvers posted here, were too. Just some caliber and finish changes after Bill passed. IIRC, the smaller frame Vaquero was after Bill. There's a long story behind Bill "supporting" bans of high-cap mags. It was, supposedly, a compromise to stop even worse things being passed. It's in the book "Ruger And His Guns" by R.L. Wilson.

The thing that separates me from Ruger is all the plastic, but I guess that's meeting the competition. I did give up and buy two LCRs, since only the grip frame is plastic. Both were replaced due to parts failures, and then one of the replacements was replaced, with a snub SP101. I give them credit, none of the troubles cost me a cent, nor did receiving the higher priced SP. No more LCRs for me, and although I think the problems were the action parts just being too small to take the stress, no more plastic.

[Canoeal]

CB151, You make a good point. But what do you do to encourage the business that do right by us, and correct the ones who are failing to do so. I stopped using Yeti, BOA, and Dicks along with a few local places with signs up now. But what is a good plan to make positive changes?

[bearcatter]

So long as problems don't seriously hurt the bottom line, typical companies don't make positive changes.

Remington, Ruger, S&W, etc. seem to have backspaced QC, according to most gun forum posts. Flaws that would have never made it out the door a few years back, and more problem returns of all kinds. That has to get expensive, doing all those repairs and replacements. Doesn't seem to spark any improvement from the higher ups.

[Canoeal]

That is my understanding too.

[theysayimnotme]

Due to the cost of selling handgun models, only the 1-1/8 22mag, 1-1/8 22mag and MiniMaster are sold in California.  I think they could sell a lot of Black Widows if they put up the ridiculous amount of money to certify them.  Kel-Tec told CA to shove it.

I would like to see a Guardian .32 with a plastic frame and 22mag with 2" or 2.5" barrel.

Any of the .22 models with a barrel long enough to comply with the minimum overall length requirement can be sold in the DPRK.
I think that would be all revolvers with a 4" or longer barrel. There is a special exception from the test requirement for single action revolvers over a certain minimum length.

Not easy to find on Kalifornia Justice Dept site but listed under exceptions to SB 15. Single action revolvers with minimum 5 cartridge capacity & barrel length of at least 3" & minimum overall length of at least 7 1/2" do not have to have to be on the approved list.
That 7 1/2" requirement will likely require about a 4" barrel for most NAA revolvers. My Black Widow is just shy of 5 1/2" but oversized grips could close the gap so a 2" longer barrel & oversized grips should make the cut.

[Canoeal]

That is the Mini Master...DUH.

[Canoeal]

"I would like to see a Guardian .32 with a plastic frame and 22mag with 2" or 2.5" barrel."

Friends don't let friends use plastic.

[theysayimnotme]

"I would like to see a Guardian .32 with a plastic frame and 22mag with 2" or 2.5" barrel."

Friends don't let friends use plastic.

I have wanted a Ruger LCP .380 ever since I got to handle one at the NRA convention in Phoenix. Problem is it doesn'r meet the rules for the DPRK so it can't be sold here even if Ruger wanted to. I supose there were people who resisted the new fangled percussion caps. The .32 Guardian is too heavy for it's size.

[Plunkit]

...or maybe an aluminum framed Guardian.  The only negative I've experienced regarding them being carried is their weight.