Guardian 22LR. Why not?

[coppertop]

I've been carrying a NAA mini-revolver for over 25 years in some shape, form or fashion. Great back-up guns and a great choice for warm weather carry. I've often considered getting a Guardian but the weight has always been a concern.

NAA offers the Guardian in .25, .32, .25NAA and .380. But why not .22LR? It might help lighten these little guns up a bit and chamber it in a more affordable/popular caliber. It feels like a .22LR Guardian would be a no brainer and sell like hot cakes.

Just curious if NAA has ever considered such or said why they never opted for it.

[autofull]

i want this tiny auto in 22lr also. why, because i enjoy small 22 semi automatics. just my two in agreement.  kevin.

[smokeless joe]

I'd give it a look

[Warthog]

I might get one....rather have a 22 Mag though

[Canoeal]

Yeah I'd like a 22 mag. You don't find many models of that at all.

[bill_deshivs]

.22lr is slightly longer than .32 acp. Probably won't work without increasing the gun size.
.22 magnum would require a much bigger gun.

[adp3]

I don't enjoy raining on anyone's parade but don't even think about a .22 Mag pocket auto. That simply isn't feasible. Heck they can't even get a full sized .22 Mag auto pistol to work reliably with the possible exception of the Excel, and it weighs close to 3#'s. .22LR pocket autos present problems.  Reliability is always a problem. I've had several .22LR pocket autos over the years.  A Sterling - never was reliable. A Budischowsky TP70 (also manufactured as the Norton) - neat design but it too never fed reliably. Several Beretta 21a Bobcats - they usually worked but still not 100% and the sights are tiny. A couple of Walther TPH's - I liked these the best except when I forgot and used too high a grip and had the slide cut parallel grooves across the web of my hand.  I doubt if a pocket .22LR auto could be produced for under $500.  Many (most?) folks are not going to spend that amount of money on a pocket .22LR.  You'd only gain 2 or 3 rounds capacity over a mini. You'd probably get better sights, but I bet Sandy's looking into that for next generation LR minis like he is for the Black Widows. The reliability of the .22LR round presents another problem in defensive situations.  There are far more dud  rimfire rounds than centerfire rounds. With a mini revolver I only have to cock the hammer again and there's a fresh round ready to go. With the auto it means yanking back the slide, and hopefully the dud round extracts and ejects properly, and the fresh round feeds correctly.  This is fine on the range but can present problems with defensive carry. If someone makes another .22 LR pocket auto I'll probably check it out, but I doubt if I'd replace my minis with it. I've been down that road before.

Best Regards,
ADP3

[SteveZ-FL]

I don't enjoy raining on anyone's parade but don't even think about a .22 Mag pocket auto. That simply isn't feasible. Heck they can't even get a full sized .22 Mag auto pistol to work reliably with the possible exception of the Excel, and it weighs close to 3#'s. .22LR pocket autos present problems.  Reliability is always a problem. I've had several .22LR pocket autos over the years.  A Sterling - never was reliable. A Budischowsky TP70 (also manufactured as the Norton) - neat design but it too never fed reliably. Several Beretta 21a Bobcats - they usually worked but still not 100% and the sights are tiny. A couple of Walther TPH's - I liked these the best except when I forgot and used too high a grip and had the slide cut parallel grooves across the web of my hand.  I doubt if a pocket .22LR auto could be produced for under $500.  Many (most?) folks are not going to spend that amount of money on a pocket .22LR.  You'd only gain 2 or 3 rounds capacity over a mini. You'd probably get better sights, but I bet Sandy's looking into that for next generation LR minis like he is for the Black Widows. The reliability of the .22LR round presents another problem in defensive situations.  There are far more dud  rimfire rounds than centerfire rounds. With a mini revolver I only have to cock the hammer again and there's a fresh round ready to go. With the auto it means yanking back the slide, and hopefully the dud round extracts and ejects properly, and the fresh round feeds correctly.  This is fine on the range but can present problems with defensive carry. If someone makes another .22 LR pocket auto I'll probably check it out, but I doubt if I'd replace my minis with it. I've been down that road before.

Best Regards,
ADP3

Most semi-auto .22lr firearms seem to be darned finicky on what they will eat.  Have 2 right now (Taurus PT-22 & Henry AR-7) and each prefers different ammo.  The penalty for not using the preferred ammo is the classic "dud" round hung up, failing to eject at the most inopportune time.  Unfortunately, the only way to determine which .22lr ammo the firearm prefers is trial-and-error. 

I doubt I would go for another .22lr semi-auto.  The minis work well in .22lr and .22WMR, and the old favorite (.25ACP Baby Browning) is a fine companion when a very small semi-auto is preferred.  Have never carried the PT-22 (strictly a range gun) because I am never sure when/if a hang-up will occur, and would probably feel the same about any other .22lr semi-auto.  Have never had a fail-to-fire or ejection problem with the .25ACP semi-auto, and that reliability is mandatory for a pocket carry.

[bearcatter]

I'd love one. It's always a nice setup to have a carry gun, and a .22 version of it for cheap practice and fun.

I agree that a .22 semiauto is not quite reliable enough for main carry. A .22 Guardian on the 32 frame would still weigh less than the .380, for those that would choose it for backup. Smaller bore means more metal in the barrel, but a .22 would likely require a lighter slide. That would even it up.

.22 mag doesn't work well in semi-autos because of being so long in relation to its diameter. More likely to misfeed. Post by bill_deshivs mentions that .22 LR is longer than .32 ACP, but only .4 millimeters. I don't think that would be an issue.

I once had a reliable Sterling, would misfeed very rarely. I can't say as much for two Beretta 21s. They never did better than 90% for me. I read good reports on the TPH, and the current Taurus PLY, for reliability.

If NAA does a .22LR Guardian, I'd want it.

[bill_deshivs]

adp3- the Keltec PMR30 works very well, and it weighs almost nothing.

[bearcatter]

PMR-30 just has a big grip. Stacking rimmed cartridges in a magazine makes a curve. 22 mags being longer just makes a very pronounced curve to cover in a double stack 30 round pistol! Coonan's .357 1911 has the same situation; limits it to a single stack 6 round mag.

[RICKS PLACE]

Repeating what has already been said, just as the question of a centerfire mini revolver keeps coming up. There are many reasons to keep the rim in a revolver and the center fires in a semi automatic. Rimfire's on the average are not as reliable as centerfire. With a revolver, you simply cock and pull the trigger again.  Guardians are heavy and an all stainless steel Guardian in .22 would be a waste of time.  Rimfire's do not stack well in a small auto. The tiny .22 semi autos have came and gone for years.  The only tiny (not that it is) .22 LR semi that seems to find favor as dependable that I know of is the Beretta 21 and some gripe re it's dependability. NAA's doing just fine with the chosen calibers for it's handguns.

[Canoeal]

Agree with that last post...Horses for courses...

[adp3]

adp3- the Keltec PMR30 works very well, and it weighs almost nothing.

Thanks Bill.  I stand corrected. Kel-Tec's .22 WMR completely slipped my mind.

Best Regards,
ADP3

[autofull]

yeah, no magnum in a guardian but if naa wanted to build a 22lr guardian it can be done. thinner but the same size otherwise would sell for awhile. i could actually build one but ya gotta sacrifice a perfectly good 32 and do a year of experimenting to get her to run. i could not thin the frame but the slide can be lightened , a barrel can be sleeved off center, and a magazine can be built using the original mag as a housing for a 22 insert from some 22rifle. springs need testing of course. i took a keltec p32 and built a 22lr from it for a cool guy in wyoming. it was a fun project since he was good for the research bill. ahh, warty knows alot of the other weapons my shop produced and that type was way more fun and profitable. i miss the fun days.  kevin., 

[MtGoat]

I had a Wilkinson Arms Sherry for awhile.
They seem to be about where NAA would end up size and weight wise.

I used to go out to Ray's shop on a regular basis before he passed.
I was playing more with the Linda and Terry than the Sherry.

Pat

[autofull]

yeah, i knew john ray through phone chats in the 80,s. i loved the sherry and owned two. ray tuned them both up for me. i wish i could have carried them with a round up the pipe for 9 total. i will never trust a concealed hammer or striker weapon with a chambered round. those sherry sure were built nicely. beautiful workmanship. i still have a diane 25acp that has never been fired but it just looks so cute in it,s box. oh well.  kevin.

[miker]

With 22 auto's you usually have reliability problems... with the mini's you have the cumbersome single-action operation. A DA 22 revolver normally has a wallopingly hefty trigger pull (to assure rimfire ignition). Pick your poison.

That said, I have a Taurus PT-22 that has been very reliable (with the particular ammo it likes!). DAO, hand-filling but still pocketable, 9 rounds, cheap to buy, and I shoot it well... there's a lot to like there.

[autofull]

yer right but i would buy the naa ina heart tick.

[top dog]

adp3,
I agree with you. It seems that when they try to make a very small 22lr auto,reliability is a sometimes thing.

Walther made (I don't know if they still do) a TPH small pistol in 22lr and 25acp.

No problems with the 25acp but the 22lr is/was kind of iffy. Very ammo sensitive.

                                                                                         Top Dog

[ikoiko]

Had a beretta .22 short. Only problem I had with it was it got stollen.

[theysayimnotme]

How about a four barreled pistol like the Brownie? Could be .22 LR or .22 Mag.

[Honky Tonk Man]

How about a small 5 shot .22lr revolver?  Or better yet one that has an interchangeable .22 WMR cylinder?  Now you're talking.  Wait a minute...

[Canoeal]

How about a small 5 shot .22lr revolver?  Or better yet one that has an interchangeable .22 WMR cylinder?  Now you're talking.  Wait a minute...
[/quote

Exactly. One with a two inch Barrel.]

[RogueTS1]

Walther TPH; both in .22LR and 6.35mm. The .22 is super reliable. The 6.35mm I cannot say since I have not fired it yet.

[top dog]

Rogue,
I had never seen a TPH with a threaded bbl.  Custom job???  What can do you use???

I am glad to hear that your 22lr TPH is very reliable.

                                                                                          Top Dog

[RogueTS1]

Yes, I remove them and have them threaded; then replace them. I still have not gotten around to sending the 6.35mm off for threading.

Which can? Depends on which gun and or caliber. Here are two I use; the Gemtech on the right is .22 only. The Thompson Machine on the left can be used on anything up to .45 caliber.

[autofull]

as i said before. they can but will not do it. ya need volume sales to recoup the development time.

[Kevin55]

Rimmed cartridges can cause problems.

My Beretta Bobcat 21A is reliable with good ammo. But without an extractor, I need to have a stick to remove duds and cases. Plus,it seems wide.

I would much rather see the Guradian 32 with a plastic frame, like the Keltec.
Actually what I really want is more than 2 models on NAA sold in California.

[smokeless joe]

Actually what I really want is more than 2 models on NAA sold in California.

Or move to America where you're free to purchase almost any gun you desire

[Talldog]

I'd rather have a Guardian in .22WMR.

[autofull]

now that would be cool but mostly impossible to make work. way too many reasons to write about but it just would not work in a blowback platform.

[bearcatter]

I would much rather see the Guradian 32 with a plastic frame, like the Keltec.

No, no, no plastic. Solid stainless is its best feature. Perfect like it is, 15 oz loaded. I can't believe anybody would think that's heavy. Plastic, yecchh!

[Canoeal]

I would much rather see the Guradian 32 with a plastic frame, like the Keltec.

No, no, no plastic. Solid stainless is its best feature. Perfect like it is, 15 oz loaded. I can't believe anybody would think that's heavy. Plastic, yecchh!

Agreed.

[Talldog]

.22WMR, DUDE!!