Diamondback DB9 + +P= broken parts

[grayelky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhkHML6LZv4&feature=related">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhkHML6LZv4&feature=related

   He says do not shoot +P in a DB9. The book warns against it, and now you can see why. (He states it was an accident the +P got loaded in the DB9.)

[cfsharry]

What is worse, ignoring manufacturer's warning and then covering up by stating it was an accidental loading or actually not paying attention to what ammo was placed in magazine?

[ebg]

To late FOR WHEN ALLELES FAILS READE THE INSTRUCTIONS.

   EBG

[mhg]

What scares me the most is the barrel is the failure point, not the frame.

   I would think the frame may not hold up to +P ammo, but the barrel SHOULD be able to hold that amount of pressure.

   I know I won't be buying a DB anything if there barrels have catastrophic failure with maybe 10 to 15 percent overpressure.

   I don't know what the pressures for that particular round is,but most +P ammo's are about 10 percent over according to the info I can find.  

   With standard 9MM at 34000+ PSI and some +P maxing around 38 to 39 thousand PSI.

   A failure of the barrel at those pressures is Very Scary

   Mike

[redhawk4]

While what they did was stupid and at odds with the manufacturers instructions, it worries me that there is so little safety margin in some of these small pistols. If that was truly caused by 5 rounds of +P, then that barrel is a little too thin for my tastes. It reminds me of the LCP's that have let go with similar "abuse". Call me Mr Cautious if you like, but I prefer a little more overbuild in my guns, just in case. I'd rather carry a couple of extra ounces and have something that will likely hold together if there's a small ammo problem or something else that cause a bit of over pressure. You definitely won't see a Guardian barrel do that

   

   If done intentionally there was definitely not much time between "oh go on it'll be alright" and " Errgh, no it won't"

[chopprs]

You guys get all flustered with such little edging!

   If you look there are also videos of guys shooting literally hundreds of rounds one after another. I saw on video where the guy shot 20 magazines full one right after another and he had to stop because it was burning his hand......NO FAILURES!

   Just because one idiot does what the directions say not to and what they say will happen DOES!?!?!?!?........and you are SCARED......and SURPRISED? HUH?

[redhawk4]

Standard Pressure 35,000, +P pressure 38,500 - 10% more. If an extra 10% is enough to do that than I stand by my original comment - it also means your always running at over 90% of what's required for catastrophic failure - I personally don't care for that - but each to their own. I saw a 12 gauge once that had been poked through a cob web before being fired, it made a real mess of the end of that very expensive British made barrel and ruined a very expensive side by side shotgun. At times like this I remember why I love my Ruger Redhawk so  

   

   Chopprs I knew you'd have to disagree as a DB9 owner and supporter owner

[chopprs]

I fully understand your point but the argument is at what point do you feel safe? At 80%? 60%? 40%?

   The fact of the matter is that the guns out there that are fired with standard 9mm do not blow up...per their design. I have fired hundreds of rounds through mine and it fires perect.  

   If your argument suggests that each round fired weakens the barrel a certain percentage and after a while it will let go....it just doesn't work like that. If the metal is not over-stressed it does not move and will remain with the same integrity for as long as it is not over-stressed..

   I actually contemplated this gun for two years before I bought one. I started looking at them long before they were even for sale....

[redhawk4]

I take your point Chopprs and it's as valid as any, but then I drive a 3/4 ton ton truck when a 1/2 ton truck would probably cut it 90% of the time.

   

   I have to say in my ignorance, I always thought the proofing of a barrel was done with a significantly higher overload than even 10% so I was surprised the extra pressure would do that. I thought the advice to not use +P was more to do with the beating the slide and other components would be taking with the increased momentum on recoil than the barrel actually splitting under the increased pressure. I'm still not sure there wasn't a bit more to this than just +P ammo.

[chopprs]

I would have to look at it but the barrell may not be the issue. If the extra pressure causes the barrel lug to crack from the bottom of the barrel that could cause the barrel to breech. Mort of the ones that I have seen blow up do so in a similar manner. The bottom of the barrel blows down and takes part of the trigger guard with it so I am guessing that is the weak link, where the barrel lug meets the barrel and not the barrel itself. It is a 90 degree andgle and the DeHavilland Comet showed us that pressures and 90 degree angles are not good friends...

[lohman446]

I expect things to be built to overpressure as well, to some degree.  However I also accept that these mini-9MMs have a whole series of trade offs to get to the size desired and a lot of it is going to have to do with how much tolerance and overbuild there is.  

   

   If the manual and manufacturer specifically and repeatedly advises DO NOT DO _________  it should come as no suprise that doing __________ results in failure.

[redhawk4]

On a lot of these small guns the race to be the lightest and smallest will inevitably result in a reduction in the margin for error when compared to the big hefty chunks of metal of yesteryear.

   

   Colin Chapman who founded Lotus and had great racing success back in the 60's and 70's made a statement to the effect that "when racing if you  didn't have something break every few races then the car was too heavy"

   

   Most things are somewhat over designed and also there are so many lawyer instructions on everything you buy that it can create a mentality where people ignore instructions because they have learned over time that there is not an immediate dire consequence to doing your own thing. Of course if you continue to do that, without thinking things through, eventually you will get bitten.

[louiethelump]

Maybe this is why Ruger guns tend to run heavy compared to other guns in the same class.  

   

   You can not expect the lightest and smallest gun on the market for the chambering to also be the strongest.  +P 9mm is kind of silly anyway.  9mm is ALREADY +P in the standard loading.  Tiny little case, HIGH pressure.

[redhawk4]

Louie that is definitely why the "traditional" Ruger revolvers run a little heavy they were designed to take not only the heaviest loads, but also a continuous diet of them. Ruger went away from this philosophy with pistols like the LCP when the need for light weight trumped brute strength, for obvious reasons. I suspect the LCR revolvers also follow that in the main as again being light was a priority. I also suspect with the big growth in concealed carry and the development of many gun designs with this in mind, that there are a lot of handguns out there now where they have edged towards the minimum end of the strength scale in their design, compared to what we had 20 years ago when it could be argued surplus metal was all the rage.

   

   We have SAAMI pressures which set a standard for ammo, but is there any standard that the chamber/barrel of a gun is required to meet for any particular caliber? for example if the SAAMI pressure for 9mm is 35,000 psi is there any specific pressure requirement placed on the barrel or is it just left to the manufacturer to decide what is "safe"?

[therevjay]

If a +P round caused a Bbl. rupture like that, how did the pistol ever handle a proof rd?

   

   Methinks perhaps the shooter is not telling the whole truth. Was it really a factory rd? Or one of his (or his buds) home brewed +P's?

[gunr]

Good point TJ

   I been thinking the same thing, how did it survive a proof load???