NAA just can't get no respect

[bearcatter]

Over the last several months, I've seen a dozen or so articles in gun rags that focused on, or made good mention of, pocket guns. Only two made mention of Minis; one of those was only a single sentence. None mentioned Guardians. Most mentioned the Kel-Tec .380. Several were very obvious in pushing 9mm for pocket carry.

No wonder so many are still unaware of Minis existing, and no one that has seen my Guardian knew what it was. All thought it was one of the cheapo pot metal pistols.

Minis and Guardians could use more exposure, as well as the fact that little bullets aren't so useless for self defense. Only positive comments are in using them for backup to a bigger gun.

[Warthog]

Yeah Bercatter, I see this too.  Problem is most of the reviews require them to send both a gun and some money or,they will pass over them.  Sad

[bearcatter]

Yep, a gun writer never reviewed a gun he didn't like. Some will mention one thing that "could be better" or whatever, to make the article seem more honest. But, they always have an excuse for it. Occasionally an article does have good photos of a gun that might interest you. The writing is a waste of ink. Wonder why I don't subscribe to them? I look at them and put them back on the rack.

[Warthog]

YUP,  I don't subscribe to them now either, might take a look on the rack and put them back but that is all for me too.

[SteveZ-FL]

The purpose of a gun magazine is to make money.  The money comes from two sources: 1) the up-front (pre-production) money comes from advertising and 2) the production funds come from subscribers and single-copy sales.  No single source can long-term sustain a gun magazine, but without the up-front money there is absolutely no chance for commercial survival.

The bulwark of the gun manufacturers sell mainly the calibers .3x and .4x.  That's where the big money is and what the manufacturers hope the majority of the buying public will purchase.  So, the "size matters" sales strategy (and advertising budget) is uniform amongst all of the .3x & .4x caliber manufacturers. 

It's no surprise that .2x caliber handguns will be treated as either novelty items for those indifferent to "size" or practice range pieces when their physical shape is similar to their .3x & .4x caliber brethren - in other words, buy both, one for carry and one for the practice range.

The NAA .2x caliber handguns are not for the "biggest is best" herd.  NAA minis require thought of purpose and use, rather than simply salivate at the biggest, sexiest thing in the magazine ads and LGS shelf.  In other words, NAA minis get plenty of respect from the thoughtful CCWer who can appreciate the minis for the first-class tools they are.  "I think, therefore I carry an NAA mini" wouldn't be a bad slogan.

[Adk.IBO]

Same principle applies to automobiles. You ain't got nothin' if you don't have AWD or 4WD. They plow the roads earlier, better and later so the states and counties don't get sued. I drive a 2WD pickup and have said many times that 4WD is over rated but the manufacturers make more from the sale and maintenance of AWD or 4WD.
Shot placement beats caliber...smart and safe driving beats recklessnes...

[Canoeal]

Same question applies to cars, motorcycles, TVs, the latest guns and NAAs...Are you gullible enough, to be convinced you need an newer, better version is it really that much better to buy a new .40 or is your current 9mm enough? Do you need the 12" screen in the dash and all the bells and whistles; or is your 2006 with only 100,000 miles on it still enough? Do you really have to have the Ranger II, Or is you curent collection OK without it (especially if you never plan to shoot it)? Is five holsters for your EDC enough, or do you NEED a better one?

Marketing is one of the greatest tools of the Devil. He makes you want more, look around at what your neighbor has, and makes you unhappy with the good things you have. It is that 'coveting' thing.

If you have more money than you need,great buy what you want. I think there are better ways it can be spent, than on keeping up...Feed the widow, help the poor, do good things for your true friends. Do the things God calls you to do...

All that said, I still would like a good used 22 mag rifle...

Yeah, I know, someone is going to rip me for this...

[billmeek]

Marketing is one of the greatest tools of the Devil. He makes you want more, look around at what your neighbor has, and makes you unhappy with the good things you have.It is that 'coveting' thing.

Change the first quoted sentence to begin with "The NAA forums" rather than "Marketing" and end with "North American Arms" rather than "the Devil" and knock of the first word of the second sentence.   

[LHB]

Read years ago, before cell phones,  that the only thing 4WD excelled at was making you walk another half mile to get to a phone to call for help.

Love to see the 4WD and AWD go roaring down an icy highway, "cuse I've got 4 wheel drive, and I got lots of traction," and then two miles down the road, there they are buried, in the ditch, because 4WD doesn't make the brakes work any better when you  need to stop.

[redhawk4]

Well as many of you know, I live less than 15 miles for the factory in Utah, I don't exactly make a point of showing everyone the gun I'm carrying, but I've only spoken to two people in UT who know of NAA and their products. One was a friend and neighbor who when we were talking guns whipped a Mini out from some recess in the dash of his car and the other is Mr22 here on the forum, if you exclude the people working at the factory or in a gun stores that stocks NAA stuff locally. So I'd have to say their profile is pretty low key in the marketplace although there have to be many more in circulation than I'm aware of because otherwise gun stores wouldn't stock them. Perhaps it's a caliber thing and people are reluctant to admit they carry one in the same way they don't want to admit to being a Trump voter

[SteveZ-FL]

Well as many of you know, I live less than 15 miles for the factory in Utah, I don't exactly make a point of showing everyone the gun I'm carrying, but I've only spoken to two people in UT who know of NAA and their products. One was a friend and neighbor who when we were talking guns whipped a Mini out from some recess in the dash of his car and the other is Mr22 here on the forum, if you exclude the people working at the factory or in a gun stores that stocks NAA stuff locally. So I'd have to say their profile is pretty low key in the marketplace although there have to be many more in circulation than I'm aware of because otherwise gun stores wouldn't stock them. Perhaps it's a caliber thing and people are reluctant to admit they carry one in the same way they don't want to admit to being a Trump voter

Among other gun owners in a gun-related setting, I feel comfortable talking about any firearm.  Outside of such a setting I shy away from the topic.  I have met many folk who are very anti-gun and if they knew I carried it would only lead to awkward times.  Concealed carry to me is all about invisibility.  I don't even want the question, "I know he's carrying, but where?"

[Honky Tonk Man]

Same principle applies to automobiles. You ain't got nothin' if you don't have AWD or 4WD. They plow the roads earlier, better and later so the states and counties don't get sued. I drive a 2WD pickup and have said many times that 4WD is over rated but the manufacturers make more from the sale and maintenance of AWD or 4WD.
Shot placement beats caliber...smart and safe driving beats recklessnes...

Ask.IBO and LHB, I shake my head in disbelief too when I see a guy with more testosterone than gray cells pass me on an icy highway going faster than they should.  Common sense tells you 4WD won't stop you any faster than 2WD.  That isn't why I or the majority of the people I know buy 4WD trucks or SUVs.  If all you do is run errands on paved roads; you'll be fine with a 2WD truck.  If you have to be at work before the snow plow drivers do their thing, or if you hunt, fish, and camp in roads that are almost never plowed, or if you never have to launch or retrieve your boat on a slippery boat launch, or if you never go out 4-wheeling for the pure fun of it, then I agree.  2WD will be fine. 

My wife and I are retired and learning how to make-do with one vehicle.  It has to be able to do anything, and go anywhere our lifestyle takes us. It takes us to doctor appointments, tows our camper/trailer, picks up groceries, visits family and friends, and once in a while does some serious 4 wheeling.  I doubt we use 4WD more than 5% of the time, but when we need it, I'm awful glad we have it.  In fact trying to go where we go with 2WD could be considered "recklessness". 

A few months ago we did a month long tour of Southern Utah.  I took our truck on a road called the Shafer Trail.  It's carved on a mountain, and one lane wide for the most part.  No guard rail, and 16% + grade, and a  few thousand foot fall if you aren't careful.  I was in 4WD for the entire 18 miles, and in Low Range for 50% of the time.  White knuckles all the way!  I didn't film this, but found it on Youtube when we returned home.  Look at this and ask yourself if you don't think 4WD would be useful? 

https://youtu.be/2eqQvRShYQY

This is still America, right?  You should be able to buy whatever vehicle, gun, or anything else you want.  It's a very personal decision.  Like many of you I almost always have a NAA mini in my pocket, but if I go somewhere with an elevated risk, I also carry my S&W .357 mag, or 9MM Glock.  Sure I believe a .22lr or .22 WMR is deadly, but would that be my first choice in a gunfight?  Hardly.  You're sitting at a red light and one or more suspicious characters approach with weapons in hand.  Your Mini and a Glock are sitting in the console.  Which one do you grab?  Be honest! 

Al, as far as marketing being the work of the devil, it's called Capitalism.  Why would anyone buy a beautiful canoe of your making unless it lit a spark in them when they looked at the beautiful lines, or admired all the artistry and hand work that went to making them?  In order to sell them, you have to take them to boat shows or run ads in magazines or other outlets, correct?  You have to show them that there is a satisfaction felt that can't be had with a plastic boat that costs a lot less than your's.  Why deny the gun mfrs the same opportunity?  I used to subscribe to a lot of magazines before the internet.  How else could I research what I needed to know about canoes, sail boats, fishing boats, guns, sports cars, 4 wheeling, bicycling, motor cycling, and other interests.  They were all filled with ads and glowing reviews.  I learned to read them all with a critical eye, and make my own decisions. 

Anyway, it's just my humble opinion.  I do appreciate this forum allowing me the opportunity to express them. 

[Mn lefty]

I read this forum everyday. Today Redhawk4 and Honky Tonk Man you nailed it. Congrats.

[Bj]

I now have a 4wd pickup, first one that I have had since 2015.  Previuosly I had a couple 2wd pickups.  The last one (2wd) got stuck just sitting in the drive overnight.  I think the tires were slightly warm when I parked and melted snow under them which turned to ice.  The next day it just sat there spinning when I tried to use it with a clean driveway other than a dusting of snow.  Once when the drive was clesr of snow I backed slightly off the drive into snow when turning around and had one h*** of a time getting unstuck.  No more 2wd pickups for me.

With the new 4wd model I seldom use 4wd.  Once I was one of a number of people helping getting some people moved using pickups and utility trailers.  The space for parking at the new place was very crowded.  When I left there was no place to turn around and I still had the utiliyy trailer hooked up.  I just drove quite a distance around another building through a lawn covered with maybe 10 -12 inches of snow using 4wd without any difficulty.  No more 2wd pickups for me although at this age this 4wd one may be the last one anyway.

[Adk.IBO]

Honky Tonk Man, I'm still working as a self employed electrician and probably my saving grace with 2WD is the weight I carry 24/7, that and good tires gets me hunting, on unfinished job sites, pretty much anywhere I want to go. There, that's the rest of the story .

[riadat]

I think the guardian, especially in 380, is a boat anchor.  That thing is heavy for what it does.

Any pocket gun, in my opinion, should weigh around 16 ounces fully loaded OR LESS.

Anything heavier is a belt gun, and those things need higher capacity, bigger calibers.

I think a revolver from NAA designed for pocket, which used center fire cartridges would be a hit if it:

1. Weighed less than 1 pound fully loaded.
2. Was not over engineered.

I think if they cloned a traditional break top like an iver johnson with modern construction it could be a hit.

Double action in 22lr and 32 s&w short or long.  Or maybe standard pressure .38 with 3 shots or something.

I would carry a 3 shot .38 revolver if it had a loaded weight of like 13 ounces and a smaller frame size than a j-frame.

Bottom line is it isn't about respect it is about actual function

They are a great company.  They have great customer service and reputation.  I respect them but would not carry a guardian if someone gave it to me.

[Warthog]

Riadat, I would take a centerfire NAA revolver like you have described too.  So many people these days feel they need to have a huge number of rounds in the magazine of their pistol or it isn't any good.  Personally, if you are in a situation where you need to have a huge number of rounds or wind up being over run or killed, I have to wonder if you were paying attention to things or listening to tunes or texting while these folks came upon you.

I feel perfectly safe with a few rounds of ammo in my revolver.  I also pay attention to what is going on around me...if need be I will turn around or even try to run some to get away from multiple attackers.

As I have said, I lived on the South Side of Chicago for a couple of years, it was a really bad area with gunfire every night somewhere around the area.  The UN had one of their places for children who lived in a war zone their to help with counseling if thy wanted it too.  It was that bad.  In IL, especially in Cook County at that time, no one but the City Council members, the Mayor or an LEO was allowed to carry a firearm legally.  Since I abide by the law, I only carried a legal knife,less than 4 inches if concealed and even open carry was allowed only a 4" blade max.  I was a really big guy then, really strong (a power lifter).  I was never bothered by even a larger group of Gangstas, they usually nodded to me and let me by without trouble nut I always made sure they stayed where they were and didn't try anything funny.

Essentially, Situational Awareness is what most folks need more than lotsa ammo.

[bearcatter]

As to riadat's pocket gun weight, The Guardian 32 is 15 oz. loaded, the 380 is 21 oz. One reason I picked the 32. A pound isn't a bad limit, and 21 is almost half again of 15.

As to 4WD or AWD, people forget something. Brakes stop your wheels. the tires stop the car. Rubber don't grab ice too well, bubba. I have a little 2WD Scion xB, and use those steel traction cables; go anywhere I want. But I try to stay home because of all the idiots just waitin' to slide into me.

[redhawk4]

Same principle applies to automobiles. You ain't got nothin' if you don't have AWD or 4WD. They plow the roads earlier, better and later so the states and counties don't get sued. I drive a 2WD pickup and have said many times that 4WD is over rated but the manufacturers make more from the sale and maintenance of AWD or 4WD.
Shot placement beats caliber...smart and safe driving beats recklessnes...

I agree many have 4x4 who don't need it and then abuse the fact they have it by going way to fast when it does snow. However without 4 wheel drive we'd have several days a year that we wouldn't be able to get up the hill to our house, wouldn't be able to pull my boat up the ramp out of the water, and wouldn't have the ground clearance for some of the dirt roads I travel even if they are dry and I don't need the 4x4 for traction. 2WD is also great until you are in the middle of nowhere and you manage to find a way to get stuck, like a wheel going off the edge of the road/trail when you stop to look at the scenery, on your walk to get help the extra cost will seem infinitely worth it. In some conditions and locations getting stuck can be a matter of life and death, particularly if you get stuck in snow for  what could be days. But I take your point, many carry guns in the same vein as those who have a 4x4 diesel 1 ton pickup just to drive to Walmart. However sometimes we need 4 wheel drive and/or big caliber firearm, it's all "horses for courses"

[redhawk4]

Well as many of you know, I live less than 15 miles for the factory in Utah, I don't exactly make a point of showing everyone the gun I'm carrying, but I've only spoken to two people in UT who know of NAA and their products. One was a friend and neighbor who when we were talking guns whipped a Mini out from some recess in the dash of his car and the other is Mr22 here on the forum, if you exclude the people working at the factory or in a gun stores that stocks NAA stuff locally. So I'd have to say their profile is pretty low key in the marketplace although there have to be many more in circulation than I'm aware of because otherwise gun stores wouldn't stock them. Perhaps it's a caliber thing and people are reluctant to admit they carry one in the same way they don't want to admit to being a Trump voter

Among other gun owners in a gun-related setting, I feel comfortable talking about any firearm.  Outside of such a setting I shy away from the topic.  I have met many folk who are very anti-gun and if they knew I carried it would only lead to awkward times.  Concealed carry to me is all about invisibility.  I don't even want the question, "I know he's carrying, but where?"

I don't advertise carrying a gun either, but do know a lot of people who are into guns and so we naturally talk about guns on occasion, but when I mention NAA as a brand I own, I'm invariably met with blank stares, or very occasionally someone going along with it and pretending they knew about NAA before I brought it up and are trying to save face.

[linux_author]

So I'd have to say their profile is pretty low key in the marketplace although there have to be many more in circulation than I'm aware of because otherwise gun stores wouldn't stock them.

funny you mention this... took my 82-year-old shooting buddy, Bob, my next door neighbor, up to a big local gun shop... Bob told him he was looking for a rimfire revolver... the sales person (a nice young fellow) showed him the LCRs, an SP101, a Smith 617 w/6" barrel...

and then he said, "Well, we also do have the NAA single-action revolvers..."

and made a really wry face, and said, "They're tiny [gesturing with thumb and index finger]."

i laughed, 'cause i really like my Sidewinder!

Bob? He's going to go for a Taurus 992...

willie
on the Gulf of Mexico

[riadat]

Riadat, I would take a centerfire NAA revolver like you have described too.  So many people these days feel they need to have a huge number of rounds in the magazine of their pistol or it isn't any good.  Personally, if you are in a situation where you need to have a huge number of rounds or wind up being over run or killed, I have to wonder if you were paying attention to things or listening to tunes or texting while these folks came upon you.

I feel perfectly safe with a few rounds of ammo in my revolver.  I also pay attention to what is going on around me...if need be I will turn around or even try to run some to get away from multiple attackers.

As I have said, I lived on the South Side of Chicago for a couple of years, it was a really bad area with gunfire every night somewhere around the area.  The UN had one of their places for children who lived in a war zone their to help with counseling if thy wanted it too.  It was that bad.  In IL, especially in Cook County at that time, no one but the City Council members, the Mayor or an LEO was allowed to carry a firearm legally.  Since I abide by the law, I only carried a legal knife,less than 4 inches if concealed and even open carry was allowed only a 4" blade max.  I was a really big guy then, really strong (a power lifter).  I was never bothered by even a larger group of Gangstas, they usually nodded to me and let me by without trouble nut I always made sure they stayed where they were and didn't try anything funny.

Essentially, Situational Awareness is what most folks need more than lotsa ammo.

Back before we got concealed carry here I never carried a gun.  Just a knife with a 4 inch blade which was legal here.  I haven't had much trouble with being attacked either.  I think predators sense easy victims and people who aren't. 

I would love to have a 3 shot centerfire revolver with a 1 inch barrel.  Make the whole thing out of aluminum with a steel cylinder and barrel insert.  Bet it could be about 12 ounces, 13.5 loaded. 

[Warthog]

Riadat, where are you?  I am in Indiana now.

IL has CC now but not in Chicago because the Dems, who are elected officials and CAN carry, say it keeps crime low.  LOL  Chicago, COOK county has some of the highest crime rates in the country.

I would love a 3 shot revolver like you are describing myself, would make an easy carry gun that was really lightweight and effective.

[grayelky]

There is one aspect of NAA being ignored by the gun magazines that has not been mentioned. They are hard enough to get now. If the rest of the country knew what we all know, how in the heck could Sandy's folks ever get caught up?

[bearcatter]

There is one aspect of NAA being ignored by the gun magazines that has not been mentioned. They are hard enough to get now. If the rest of the country knew what we all know, how in the heck could Sandy's folks ever get caught up?

I don't think they'd mind having to expand a bit....

[riadat]

Riadat, where are you?  I am in Indiana now.

IL has CC now but not in Chicago because the Dems, who are elected officials and CAN carry, say it keeps crime low.  LOL  Chicago, COOK county has some of the highest crime rates in the country.

I would love a 3 shot revolver like you are describing myself, would make an easy carry gun that was really lightweight and effective.

I live in Derby, Kansas, about 10 miles from Wichita.  I have had permit now for about 8 years or so

[RICKS PLACE]

Maybe I missed it, but I wonder if profit margin has a lot to do with what gun stores push.  When I worked at a gun store 20 years ago, got cross ways as why I pushed the 870 over the Winchester pump.  I often wondered if the profit margin was better on the Winchester.  If the gun was to be for hunting only, I showed both.  For defense, I pushed the 870.  This came from my years as a LEO.  I simply felt the 870 a better defense weapon.  Today, I note that my local gun store push the Sig 380 more that others.  They don't  put the Remington 380 on the shelve which sells for about half.  Yet, I have yet to read a really bad review on the RM380.  They also don't push the Springfield 380 that is almost the same as the Sig for about $100 cheaper.  They don't even carry or order a NAA.  Therefore I wonder if it's all about profit margin?

[Canoeal]

Indeed it is. I was told by my LGs' owner "we don't really make much on $300 guns."

[SteveZ-FL]

Indeed it is. I wxas told by my LGs' owner "we don't really make much on $300 guns."

I can't fault LGSs for not pushing products that don't generate much profit.  Most gun stores have a lot of money tied up in inventory.  Combining that with the overhead involved in operating a gun store, it's a wonder that as many keep the doors open that do.  I don't know what the retail margin for the various NAA minis is, but i don't see too many LGS owners getting rich off of NAA retail sales.

[LHB]

My local FFL has said that he is doing better since he stopped trying to stock what he thought people might want, and now has a few basic shotguns, rifles, and handguns, (2-3 each) and guns on consignment, but averages 3 - 5 transfers a day, at $35.00 a pop.   He makes as much on ammo as he does guns, and said that when he was trying to have guns on "spec" he never had just what the buyer wanted, and would have to order it any way.   He tells people to order it from Bud's, have it shipped to him, and he makes $35.00 for doing the paper work, cash, no credit card fees  or other expense.

[bearcatter]

My best LGS doesn't even stock new guns. He usually has a good assortment of used, mostly on consignment, and he gets 20%. He does a lot through Davidson's Gallery Of Guns, and makes a good percentage there, too; even with prices beating the local big boxes.

[boots]

Some of my children and grandchildren carry a BW because they saw and shot mine. but they mostly also carry something more. For years I got by with a 2 WD, good tires and weight in the back. Then I moved here and must have 4 WD and chains to get off the mountain in the winter---life is good.

[LHB]

I just think it is funny that for fifty years we got by with two wheel drive, but now everyone needs a 4WD.   The only 4WD I ever saw in the early 50s were Jeeps, slow moving with the old military type narrow tires, and then the IH Scouts came out. and they were pushed as utility service vehicles.   Then in the late 60s the pickups started to show up, and people started putting on the wide tires (which I think are really for sand, not snow or mud) and jacking them up.   As a mechanic, who had a 4WD for snow removal, told me back then, "it doesn't matter how high you jack up the body, as soon as the pumpkin gets buried in the mud or the snow, you're done."

Back on the farm, we always thought that there was nothing quite as helpless as a dual wheel truck ( which all the want-a-be cowboys are driving around here ) in snow, and if you put a ton and a half of hog feed in a pick up, you could go anywhere, the problem came when you tried to drive the now empty truck away from the hog feeder, so you needed the tractor.

[Texron]

There is one aspect of NAA being ignored by the gun magazines that has not been mentioned. They are hard enough to get now. If the rest of the country knew what we all know, how in the heck could Sandy's folks ever get caught up?

I live in South Texas where NAAs are easy to buy. They have them at every gun show, and even the local Academy now sells them. That must be why I have so many of them.😀