Carrying the NAA Companion

[1858Fan]

As I posted in my "waiting for my new Companion" thread, it finally arrived yesterday. I'm planning a range outing with it this Saturday if the weather forecast holds.

Now that I've learned a bit more about the unique design of the chamber on the Companion it is evident that one cannot use any sort of wad to seal the chambers like I do with my full size BP revos. Given that, grease on top of the balls is the order of the day to prevent a chain fire.

At the range that's fine, but I plan to actually carry my new Super Companion on occasion. I live in Florida and I fear that it is too hot here for most of the substances that one would normally use to grease the mouths of the chambers (fearing it would melt and run out and make a mess of whatever is in proximity to the gun - and the gun).

I know beeswax combined with lamb tallow is a popular recipe for BP shooters. Beeswax has a melting point of around 144 degrees F, and lamb tallow is about 113 degrees F. The beeswax would probably be OK, but the lamb tallow is too low a melting point. I don't know how the two would behave in combination.

Moving away from low tech, modern grease formulations usually have a rated "dropping point" which is the point where they transition from semi-solid to liquid. A thick grease with a very high dropping point would be ideal. I have a graphite grease that is used on exhaust coupling gaskets on motorcycles that has no dropping point. In other words you can get it as hot as you want and it will never liquify. If no other solution presents itself perhaps putting some of that in each chamber after loading, and swabbing out the excess with a q-tip, would be a good way to carry the gun.

All of that said, I figure I'm not the first person to want to carry a Companion, so I'd ask you all what you do.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

P.S. The solution should not only be suitable for on-body but also be such that it would be OK if I needed to leave the gun in a hot car (which in Florida might get to 140 degrees) for a bit.

[Honky Tonk Man]

1858, I haven't seen one of those Companions in person before.  It appears there is no safety notch, so I'm guessing you're only going to load 4 of the cylinders?  I used to deer hunt with a Hawken 50 back in the 70's.  We used Crisco or a product called bore butter to lube our patches, and I believe they were also used to seal the cyls. of BP revolvers too, but couldn't swear to it.  We were hunting in near zero weather, so melting wasn't a factor. 

It seems  I learned that BP was hygroscopic, that is it absorbs moisture from the humidity in the air.  I am sure the BP residue after it's fired will draw moisture, and that's what causes BP guns to rust so quickly.  I'm not sure that would be a big problem in a SS gun, but if the powder absorbs moisture from the air; it might limit how long you want to keep your gun loaded, especially in Florida. 

I was waiting to see what some of the other replies to your question might be.  There are certainly more folks qualified to answer your question on this forum.  Hopefully they'll weigh in and educate us both. 

One more fly in the ointment to consider.  I thought I was the most clever guy in the room when I discovered I could store my Black Widow in the little drop down sunglass holder in my F-150's overhead console.  When I opened it; my gun fell right into my hand.  Hidden from sight, and quick to access.  One hot sunny day I popped the compartment open and almost dropped the gun it was so hot. I'm not sure what temp it takes to cook off a round, but don't want to tempt my fate.  Last time I used that for storage.  It does work fine on a road trip though.   

[1858Fan]

1858, I haven't seen one of those Companions in person before.  It appears there is no safety notch, so I'm guessing you're only going to load 4 of the cylinders?

Correct. There is no safety notch. Loading only 4 chambers would be the absolute safest bet.

I used to deer hunt with a Hawken 50 back in the 70's.  We used Crisco or a product called bore butter to lube our patches, and I believe they were also used to seal the cyls. of BP revolvers too, but couldn't swear to it.  We were hunting in near zero weather, so melting wasn't a factor.

At the range I'd use Crisco or Bore Butter for sure. But for extended use those would definitely melt out in Florida.

It seems  I learned that BP was hygroscopic, that is it absorbs moisture from the humidity in the air.  I am sure the BP residue after it's fired will draw moisture, and that's what causes BP guns to rust so quickly.  I'm not sure that would be a big problem in a SS gun, but if the powder absorbs moisture from the air; it might limit how long you want to keep your gun loaded, especially in Florida.

Yep, BP is hygroscopic, but if the ball end of the chamber is sealed with grease or wax or whatever then we just have to worry about the moisture getting past the cap/nipple (which would probably also risk making the cap unreliable). 

I was waiting to see what some of the other replies to your question might be.  There are certainly more folks qualified to answer your question on this forum.  Hopefully they'll weigh in and educate us both.

I have been doing some searching and have found high temperature paraffin wax for making hurricane candles that melts at 163 degrees F. That should be a high enough melting point for my purpose. If nothing better presents itself my current plan is to melt some of that wax and then, after fully loading the cylinder (minus one chamber), pour in enough wax to cover the bullet in the end of each chamber, let it cool, and then see if it's possible to drip a drop to try to seal each cap. The caps are in little counter-bored pockets so I think it will be possible to seal it up without too much trouble. Picture attached.

One more fly in the ointment to consider.  I thought I was the most clever guy in the room when I discovered I could store my Black Widow in the little drop down sunglass holder in my F-150's overhead console.  When I opened it; my gun fell right into my hand.  Hidden from sight, and quick to access.  One hot sunny day I popped the compartment open and almost dropped the gun it was so hot. I'm not sure what temp it takes to cook off a round, but don't want to tempt my fate.  Last time I used that for storage.  It does work fine on a road trip though.

I keep my NAA .22 magnum in the exact same place. It's never gotten hot though - even in the Florida sun. Vehicle must be put together different.

[Canoeal]

Yeah, in our Subaru the holders up top get hot too. My 2002 E-150? No holder to get hot...

[lefty dude]

Try your wax cap seal on one cap first, you may have a tough time getting that spent cap off the nipple. Then for the re- cap, oh my what a mess indeed.
Why carry a Companion ? I know, because you can.
You may want to try "Mobil One" synthetic grease over the chambers. A little dab will do ya.

[1858Fan]

Try your wax cap seal on one cap first, you may have a tough time getting that spent cap off the nipple. Then for the re- cap, oh my what a mess indeed.
Why carry a Companion ? I know, because you can.
You may want to try "Mobil One" synthetic grease over the chambers. A little dab will do ya.

Well, once sealed up in this manner that cylinder would become the "carry cylinder". Periodically it would need to be fired, cleaned, and reloaded, but it would just ride around most of the time.

Regarding "why carry a Companion?" - the Companion isn't legally a firearm in Florida so you can carry it some places it might be illegal for a concealed weapon permit holder to carry a firearm. Though I can't imagine that I would, you could also legally open carry it. Open carry of a firearm is not generally legal in Florida - with exceptions - but again, the Companion isn't a firearm here.

[RICKS PLACE]

First, I will not knock what anyone wishes to carry.  I did not know Florida allowed to carry a BP with out a permit and in the open.  Texas hasn't got that civilized yet.  (To my knowledge)  Considering a BP for defense, it is said the James Butler Hickok (Wild Bill) went out each AM, and fired the rounds in his 36 Navy's for target, then cleaned them and reloaded.  Seemed he didn't have the faith in the BP rounds to go the week with the same loads.  Or, maybe just wanted the practice. Also, I never thought re the lack of a safety slot dropping 5 rounds to 4.  But, to each his own.

[Dinadan]

Regarding "why carry a Companion?" - the Companion isn't legally a firearm in Florida so you can carry it some places it might be illegal for a concealed weapon permit holder to carry a firearm. Though I can't imagine that I would, you could also legally open carry it. Open carry of a firearm is not generally legal in Florida - with exceptions - but again, the Companion isn't a firearm here.

I am no expert on black powder and the law. But I just do not believe that the average LEO who finds a man carrying a Companion in a forbidden zone is going to accept your reasoning. You will probably win in court, but who  wants to go to court? At best you could end up with an arrest record.

[Canoeal]

is not?

[Warthog]

Well, again, a BP firearm is a firearm, just no background check.  Carry one and you will need a permit to do so plus if the area is a place where firearms are not allowed, it will be taken from you or you will be escorted out.  A BP firearm is a firearm in the eyes of the law.  You may not need to have a background check nor need to go through and FFL but it is still considered a firearm.  Carry it in a place where you aren't to have a firearm and you will certainly find this to be true.  Carry it concealed and not have a permit to do so and find yourself arrested.  Some state where Constitutional Carry is in effect open carry of this firearm would be fine but not in an area where they are forbidden.

[OLD and GRUMPY]

I use clear nail polish to seal caps. A lite coat dripped on the out side then a second.

Just make sure there is NO lube on the outside of the nipple or in the vent. It will kill the cap. Had it happen.

Cylinders "waxed" 150 years ago have been found. Charge was still good.

[LHB]

I was told in a NMLRA class that rifles and shotguns that went to the attic loaded, will still fire after 125-150 years.   I know that when I was a kid, a neighbor kid, while playing in his grandmother's attic, pretended to load a MZ rifle, but a ball through the wall from the "empty" rifle, without a cap on it.  Got a spark from some where, or from cap residue around the nipple.  I saw the hole in the wall. 

I didn't know that black powder attracted moisture.

[1858Fan]

Well, again, a BP firearm is a firearm, just no background check.

I can't say for any state other than Florida as I only claim to be an expert in Florida law, but in Florida a gun with a primitive ignition system is absolutely not a firearm. See F.S. 790.001(1), 790.001(6), and then 790.01(2) and 790.053(1), State v Weeks, and a bunch of other case law. In Florida convicted felons can even own primitive ignition guns.

Turns out it really doesn't matter. Had my first range day with the Companion today and her and I are not ready for anything resembling defensive work at this time. I'd trust my life to an 1858 if I couldn't carry my Glock 23 for some reason, but not so with the Companion just yet.

Fun little gun but need to work out some reliability kinks. It's really no wonder - everything is on such a small scale that tiny issues become big issues. I know others have reported acrimonious relationships with their Companion, and I will continue to work with her. I think the fact that I'm using real 4F holy black probably makes matters worse as it is so dirty - or at least this Goex is. I'll probably order some Swiss, try some Triple 7, etc.

I'll keep experimenting and do some more reading here about what other Companion owners have done to smooth over their relationships.

[Warthog]

Gonna ned you to show me this in the FL law.

[1858Fan]

Gonna ned you to show me this in the FL law.

I provided the statutes above but I can copy/paste them here.

F.S. 790.001(1):
"Antique firearm" means any firearm manufactured in or before 1918 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar early type of ignition system) or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1918, and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1918, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

Note that the Florida Supreme court has recently ruled that pretty much any firearm with a primitive ignition system qualifies, even if outfitted with modern scopes, and generally not being a replica of anything. They ruled that the ignition system is the primary qualifying criteria.

F.S. 790.001(6):
"Firearm" means any weapon (including a starter gun) which will, is designed to, or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; any destructive device; or any machine gun. The term "firearm" does not include an antique firearm unless the antique firearm is used in the commission of a crime.

So if you use a percussion arm to murder someone it magically becomes a firearm, but as long as whatever you are doing with it is legal, it's not a firearm.

So let's turn to open and concealed carry of firearms.

Concealed carry - F.S. 790.01(2):
Except as provided in subsection (3), a person who is not licensed under s. 790.06 and who carries a concealed firearm on or about his or her person commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

But, as above, a percussion arm is not a firearm, so not covered by this statute.

Open carry - F.S. 790.053(1):
Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device.[...]

Again, a percussion arm is not a firearm, so not covered by this statute.

Anything not specifically illegal is legal. This does not mean you won't get hassled by the law for it. Police officers are notoriously ignorant of the law - especially fine points.

In Texas, before licensed open carry of handguns was recently legalized, some folks protesting for that ability open carried black powder revolvers on the capitol grounds, which is perfectly legal. The capitol police arrested them anyway. You may beat the rap but you won't beat the ride.

[RICKS PLACE]

Don't ever try to fully understand Texas gun laws.  The knife laws are much better now, still have some quirks in the way they are written.  If you carry any handgun that uses gun powder, get a get a handgun license.  Then be sure where you can carry.  As a 5th generation Texan, a retired LEO, and hold a master's certification in law enforcement,  I don't still under stand all of the Texas gun laws. Like they say about the weather in Texas, if you don't like it, wait a day and it will change.

[Warthog]

Amazing, as I said, don't take it places that firearms aren't allowed and don't carry bit concealed without a permit.

[top dog]

1858fan,

I respect your wishes to pack the Companion but feel that you would be better off with a conventional mini (and a permit).

Yes,I know that for many decades BP was the choice (in fact the only choice) but there are, IMO, just too many variables that can affect the performance of the Companion.

Yes there are stories about BP weapons "going off" after many decades of storage,but there are just as many,probably even more,of BP weapons not going off even after being freshly loaded.

Just my thoughts.

                                          Top Dog

[1858Fan]

1858fan,

I respect your wishes to pack the Companion but feel that you would be better off with a conventional mini (and a permit).

Yes,I know that for many decades BP was the choice (in fact the only choice) but there are, IMO, just too many variables that can affect the performance of the Companion.

Yes there are stories about BP weapons "going off" after many decades of storage,but there are just as many,probably even more,of BP weapons not going off even after being freshly loaded.

Just my thoughts.

                                          Top Dog

The thought of carrying the Companion where a traditional firearm might not be allowed to go is really more of a fanciful one than a practical one. I have 3 concealed weapons permits (Florida, Arizona and Utah) and can legally carry in most any state I'd have any desire to visit. I have additional credentials that allow me to carry in most prohibited places in Florida when needed, so it's not really a thing that would be too likely to come up for me. But it was a good reason to buy a new toy.

At the moment the Companion and I still need a bit of therapy before our relationship will be as solid as mine is with the 1858. My shooting buddy yesterday said "I think you'd be better off with a good knife than carrying that". Lol.

[Dinadan]

1858Fan - I saw your photo of your new Companion in your other thread. Very nice looking indeed. I am sorry to read that you have had issues with shooting it. I gather that you are an experienced BP shooter with the 1858. I have never shot a Companion, but my very limited BP revolver shooting gave me a new respect for the men who depended on them in the old days!

[1858Fan]

1858Fan - I saw your photo of your new Companion in your other thread. Very nice looking indeed. I am sorry to read that you have had issues with shooting it. I gather that you are an experienced BP shooter with the 1858. I have never shot a Companion, but my very limited BP revolver shooting gave me a new respect for the men who depended on them in the old days!

I'm an old hand at black powder guns, and the principles are generally the same with the Companion, but since everything is on such a small scale it's a lot easier for the works to get fouled up. The main problem is with cycling. When she's feeling ornery she'll bind and not allow you to cock the hammer and you have to help her along a little. She cycles fine when she's clean and unloaded, but as soon as she gets a little dirty (like even a couple shots) she gets cranky. That's OK. We'll get everything worked out. I just need to bring more stuff with me to the range next time.