Most Accurate For Old Eyes?

Started by Bj, October-26-18 20:10

Previous topic - Next topic

What would you use for an NAA Competition Target Shoot

Mini-Master - Better Sights 4" barrel
14 (66.7%)
Black Widow - Better Sights 2 " barrel
3 (14.3%)
Pug - Night Sights
1 (4.8%)
Hogleg - 6" barrel
2 (9.5%)
Guardian or other
1 (4.8%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Bj

This is my way of trying to get opinions about accuracy with different NAAs.  Competitive shooting with NAAs may or not be practical, I'm interested in true accuracy without getting a bunch of comments that accuracy isn't needed for very close range self defense.  Would the better sights help most or is barrel length more important?  Is the grip very important?

Canoeal

I voted MM, for a target shoot sights and barrel length count. For a carry gun my vote is still the BW...best compromise of barrel length, sights, and size as it is still pocketable.
"All it takes for evil to prevail, is for good men to do nothing."  Edmund Burke

theysayimnotme

If you are really having old eye problems it really won't matter much. With iron sights my right eye gives me a double image & peep sights have a black dot in the middle. I have to use my left eye to shoot a pistol. For a rifle I need a scope or laser. I have a cataract in my right eye but it is not bad enough for my health insurance to pay to correct it.

Bj


Thanks for the comments and votes, I hope more respond.  I only said Old Eyes because it seems that in general open sights are more difficult to use as we get older.  Another question I didn't get into the poll would be:  for pure accuracy would the existing sights now available for the BW and MM or the night sights coming in the future be more accurate in normal daylight conditions?

It likely isn't feasible but it would be interesting to see the results of an actual shooting competition limited to NAA production handguns at maybe 10 yards by forum members using any NAA model of your choice.  The results could even be a selling point for NAA.  I don't think I would do very well in such a competiyion but it would be fun.

Here is a picture of what I did with my R2 from about 10 yards with a 2" target.

top dog

Bj,
I found that w/o my prescription glasses (I wear clear protective glasses) I can focus on my front sight much better and have better results.

Still,the minis were not designed for the National Match Course,and I guess 10-15 ft might be the norm.

                                                                                                                               Top Dog

Warthog

Mini Master or Hog Leg, though the sights would need changing, are my faves with my bad eyes.
"The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it."
-Albert Einstein

Rick_Jorgenson

The first time I had my Ranger II at the range I shot 10 rounds to get familiar with the gun, Replaced the target and shot 5 rounds at 7 yards.

Shots were on the paper, scattered, but on the paper, that is good for me! :D (I'm not a good shot by any standards)

I replaced the target and switched the Ranger grips with my Mini Master's grips.  Those 5 were a "group" within a 6" circle. Not in the center but it gave me some consistency that the small grips did not.

So you might try some other grips on the Ranger II.   The CVang might be an option, those are on my "short list" of things to order to give them a try but the Mini Master grips are inexpensive and pretty quick to get in the mail.

The Mini Master grips look "odd" to me on the Ranger II but "who cares!" no one is supposed to see it anyway! lol!!
Rick Jorgenson

Warthog

Again, I would agree with Rick here too, better grip on a firearm makes for better shots.  You only need to scrape a tim amount of the wood stuff from the CVang grips to make them work on the new Ranger.  Other than on the Ranger, I really love them on my Black Widow. 8)
"The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it."
-Albert Einstein

bearcatter

I would think the better sights of the 4 inch Mini Master would more than offset the 6 inch barrel of the Hogleg. Good grips on either would help, too.

A 2 inch barrel wouldn't stabilize the bullet as well, and Guardians being DAO puts them out of the running with less than a great shooter pulling the trigger.
"If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."

* Guardian .32 (2) * Zastava M70 .32 (3) * Bearcat stainless (2) * SP101 .22 * Ruger SR22 (2) * S&W M&P 15-22 Sport

Warthog

Yeah, I said the Hog Leg with better sights.  I agree it needs better sights.  Mini Master like sights would be great, I love my MMs.
"The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it."
-Albert Einstein

billmeek

I have Mini-Master grips on the Pug and they were an improvement.  Not as much as I hoped they would be though.  I have the black plastic grips from REVISION CV on the way (they should be here today) to try out too.

With my presbyopia (old man's eyes), I've decided that practicing point-and-shoot is the most important.  I've also found that with practice, I can figure out what portion of the blur is the correct portion of the sights to aim.  But picking up the correction portion of the blurred sights is not a quick process so I usually revert to point-and-shoot. 

The biggest killer of accuracy on the NAA pistols is the trigger.  I wish I could knock about half the weight off of the pull without sacrificing reliability.
Bill

I won't carry a laser device... unless it has stun, kill, and disintegrate settings.

redhawk4

Barrel length does little to change bullet accuracy in itself, it's the additional sighting radius provided by a longer barrel that is the key. Add good sights that are easy to see and that are thin enough on the front to not obscure the target and you will get decent real world accuracy. When handguns are small, so you don't have a good grip and very short in overall length it's very easy to not hold the gun straight on to the target, then add in the movement etc. that can occur in the hand and with only 1 or 2 fingers on a small grip and accuracy can go out of the window, big time. In addition to barrel length and sights, grips that fit your hands are also very important.
Old Enough to Know Better - Still Too Young to Care

I "Acted the Fool" so often in School they made me get an Equity Card

billmeek

New grips arrived and installed.  From feel and dry firing, I have a better hold on the Mini-master grip. One thing I've not seen mentioned before and didn't consider is that the CV grips make it much harder to see the cylinder.  So dropping the hammer into a safety slot requires more care. I'll likely remove the CV grips and relegate them to the BugOut II.

 
Bill

I won't carry a laser device... unless it has stun, kill, and disintegrate settings.

Bj

#13
Quote from: billmeek on October-27-18 09:10
The biggest killer of accuracy on the NAA pistols is the trigger.  I wish I could knock about half the weight off of the pull without sacrificing reliability.

I am not surprised the trigger issue came up.  I am using engraved boot grips.

billmeek

BJ,

I've already swapped the Pug back to using the Mini-Master grips and put the CV grips on the BugOut II.  I carry the Pug often and the BugOut II rarely is carried.  I think the CV grips look better, but on my carry firearms I don't care one bit about how they look.  I want what works best.
Bill

I won't carry a laser device... unless it has stun, kill, and disintegrate settings.

Canoeal

10 yds. with this gun...
"All it takes for evil to prevail, is for good men to do nothing."  Edmund Burke

RogueTS1

I think for "Old Eyes" the Big Dot System would work very well. Easy to see and easy to line up without a bunch of centering discrepancy having to be made by tired old eyes. Just place the Big Dot on the stick, like a lollipop, and squeeze off your round.
Wounds of the flesh a surgeon's skill may heal but wounded honour is only cured with steel.

billmeek

The big dots don't work as well as you might think with old man eyes.  On the Pug the white vertical bar is nothing more than a blur.  Without my glasses, I can do better using the edges of the back sight to line up the blur of the front sight.  On the Bugout, I can do a bit better lining up the BigDot front to the sight notch at the rear. 
Bill

I won't carry a laser device... unless it has stun, kill, and disintegrate settings.

Canoeal

#18
My approach top the sights and eye issues has been this:
Since my eyes are just a little off (low power readers) and my BW shot a little high with the fixed sights (and worse with the Adjustable ones), I chose this as my answer until the trit sights are worked out. Left the rear BW sights as standard, but I  changed the look of the front sight  The dot in the center needed raising in order to get it to shoot POA at 10 yds (my choice). Since I needed to adjust that and to make it easier to see I painted the section  on the rear of the sight above the dot white in a stripe. This essentially made a larger, square dot, sightly higher, on the fin. Because it is now larger I can see it, and when it is centered between the two dots on the rear sight, it is now on target.
"All it takes for evil to prevail, is for good men to do nothing."  Edmund Burke

Rick_Jorgenson

I point the gun in the direction of the target, pull the trigger and hope I hit the paper.  ::) lol!!

I try not to hit the center "X" and so far it has worked like a charm!  ;)

I need to go practice more.  :o
Rick Jorgenson

Crippler

Has anyone put aftermarket sights on such a small gun? I know the lasers are available, but what about custom jobs?

Noisy Cricket

Are any of them capable of "humanely" taking small game up to 7 yrds? 


Uncle_Lee

Quote from: Noisy Cricket on November-06-18 09:11
Are any of them capable of "humanely" taking small game up to 7 yrds?

Welcome Cricket,
"Humanely"?
If you practice and become very good with your Black Widow or Mini Master, you can answer that question yourself.
But it is up to what you consider "humanely". Instant death - brain shot every time. Never miss. Couldn't guarantee that.
Lung or heart shot - running 5 or 10 feet before death overtakes it. Very good possibility.
God, Country, & Flag

LET'S GO BRANDON ( he is gone to the beach )

Honky Tonk Man

Although IMO, any of the NAA handguns are capable of killing small game; they weren't designed for hunting.  In a survival situation, you use what you have, but why handicap yourself hunting with a lightweight handgun that's hard to grip, and has such a short sight radius?  Those shortcomings are positives for it's intended purpose, ie. concealability, ease of carry, element of surprise, etc. 
Silence is Golden - Duct Tape is Silver

Bj

Why the mini for hunting?  Because that is what you have with you at the time you see the critter due to being handy for povket carry.

Honky Tonk Man

Bj, I didn't say you couldn't hunt with one.  It just wouldn't be my first choice for a hunting trip. I almost always have a NAA on me when hunting, but not only that.  Just can't see myself headed into the woods bunny or squirrel hunting with nothing but a Pug or BW in my pocket.  If big game hunting, and some small game opportunity presented itself, I wouldn't pop a squirrel just because I could.  Deer or antelope would soon be in the next county. 
Silence is Golden - Duct Tape is Silver

Bj

I didn't word that very well.  Just meant that a reason to want good sights and accuracy is because that mini could be all that is in your pocket or on your person when you chance upon small game during hunting season while cutting fire wood or say a rat in your barn.  I was responding to only part of your comment "why handicap yourself hunting with a lightweight handgun that's hard to grip, and has such a short sight radius?"

A mini would be very low on my desires for going out hunting too.  Somehow I have felt that I am not getting my point across that l would like sights on a mini that would let me take full advantage of it's potential. 

Honky Tonk Man

Gotcha' Bj.  I think we're both trying to say the same thing.  lol  I guess any of the NAA pieces are up to the task.  The longer barreled models with the best sights are probably the easiest to place precise shots, at least for me.  Although I've never shot one, I think the Mini Master would be the most accurate for me.  I have the shorter-barreled version of that in the Black Widow model.  Same good sights, easy to grip, but half the barrel length.  I do ok with it, but the longer barrel would surely help. My Pug sights are probably quicker to get on target (night sights), but those 3 white dots on the BW are easier for my old eyes to pick up in most conditions.  Hope this helps. 
Silence is Golden - Duct Tape is Silver