Rifle

[Animl]

Why hasn't NAA made a survival rifle with a 16" barrel and a folding wire stock!! I'm wondering if anyone else is interested in the idea of owning a really cool compact rifle!!

[billmeek]

It's been brought up several times in the past.  Example of one thread where it's mentioned:

http://naaminis.com/smf/index.php?topic=15479.0

[Honky Tonk Man]

Welcome Animl, I brought it up 2 days ago.  Maybe if we clamor for it enough; it will happen.  It can't hurt. 
Here's a link to that one. 

http://naaminis.com/smf/index.php?topic=17615.msg166443#msg166443

[bearcatter]

Even a small survival rifle isn't exactly "mini"?

[Honky Tonk Man]

Even a small survival rifle isn't exactly "mini"?

Everything is relative.  It would be "mini" compared to a full-size rifle. 

[Ruger]

Why hasn't NAA made a survival rifle with a 16" barrel and a folding wire stock!! I'm wondering if anyone else is interested in the idea of owning a really cool compact rifle!!

Hey . . . Animl . . . WELCOME to the forum!  So glad to have you.  We need you to keep stepping up to the firing line with your questions, opinions, stories, range reports, and the like.  We need your pictures, TOO!

Now when it comes to a really cool compact rifle, I love my Kel-Tec Sub2000!  Folds up into my 15" computer bag, 9mm, uses Glock mags (so I can use the 33 rd'er), and it has shown itself to be a tack driver.

[OLD and GRUMPY]

Why hasn't NAA made a survival rifle with a 16" barrel and a folding wire stock!! I'm wondering if anyone else is interested in the idea of owning a really cool compact rifle!!

Do what you do best.  Others our out there. 

[OLD and GRUMPY]

PS-- welcome!  Post Pics!

[Warthog]

Animl welcome.

NAA is unlikely to make a rifle.  Even with a wire stock would take a lot of extra capital investment and this company is kind of tiny and has a pretty small market.  It just isn't something I would expect from NAA, I would certainly buy one if they did but I really don't see it happening.

[theysayimnotme]

As I imagine it a sliding wire stock would make it still capable of being fired. You would then have either a too short rifle or a pistol made out of a rifle. In either case a no-no.

[SteveZ-FL]

Just for fun (after seeing one in a James Bond movie) got a Henry AR-7 .22LR survival rifle several years ago.  it's an 8-round semi-auto.  Every once in a while I take it out of storage and prep it for firing.  It's tempramental with ammo, but it's a decent short-range .22 rifle.  I see it as a "long-barrel complement" to the NAA minis.

[OV-1D]

  It would be a great piece for a bugout weapon for survival having a break down extension that is easily attached maybe some of those custom guys can come up with one , even the extension could fold down and snap tight into position then attach to said mini . How cool would it look on a Earl or Mini-master . 

[pietro]

.

This fella inspired my to convert a magnum-frame Mini (he used a LR frame) with a folding buttstock into a Bicycle Rifle.

I used aluminum 3/8" rods from Home Cheapo & heliarced them to a shape similar to his machined aluminum buttstock.









I sent photo's to NAA, along with a request that they consider making such a product.

The reply I received in return stated that they were "less than interested".


I'm not a fan of banging my head against a wall....


.

[Canoeal]

Then like all of us, who can't just buy what we want,  make your own parts. That guy did.
I could make a wooden folding stock, maybe even a hollow one, I just don't have 50 hours in a day...my problem, not being a gunsmith,  would be the barrel.
That and after I made one, what would I do with it?

[Honky Tonk Man]

I like that rifle pietro.  Do you have pictures of the one you made?  Still own it?  I was thinking aluminum tubing would be the way to go as well.  Is that barrel 16" long?  It looks longer, but hard to tell with a photo.  I would like to see it based on an 1860 Earl magnum frame, both .22 WMR cyl. and .22LR cylinder, octagon barrel, and a peep sight.  It's disheartening to hear your proposal was shot down. 

Canoeal, I'd use it as a camping, backpacking, hiking, survival rifle.   

[Canoeal]

At 64+ and metal knees Back backpacking...not so much...Camping once or twice a year, with our canoe club, State Parks, metal tent...Survival at home?  I want a real wooden stocked rifle with some capacity like a Mini 30...food gathering?  Maybe but a Henry Small game, 22 WMR, would suit me just fine...
My list for a SHTF situation is the two above and what I have now...Or you could replace the Ruger with a  Henry in a larger caliber...Not too fussy.
No plastic guns for me. Just what I like. I am a dinosaur.

[Warthog]

I am a dinosaur too Canoeal, Metal and wood make it real for me too.  No plastic, that is for the modern people which I am not.

[pietro]

I like that rifle pietro.  Thanks !

Do you have pictures of the one you made ?   Nope 

Still own it ?  Nope - I got tired of being hassled by game wardens as to it's legality 

Is that barrel 16" long ?  Mine was 16-1/2" long
   

I made my barrel via turning down a used/pristine Ruger 10/22 stainless barrel I picked up online for $30, from someone who had switched out that barrel in favor of an aftermarket bull bbl for his 10/22.

Anyone who tries the conversion, needs to be very careful to avoid a mistake that would violate US Federal Law (GCA-68).

While a 16" bbl is legal under that law, the OAL with the buttstock extended MUST be at least 26" long.

With a short (front-to-back) Mini frame, either the barrel length or buttstock length may need to be longer to meet the 26" OAL minimum.

The factory Mini bbl unscrews with little effort (I used aluminum lined vise jaws to hold the frame while I removed the barrel with padded vise grip pliers).

The most difficult parts were re-threading the turned down Ruger bbl to match the threads on the removed Mini bbl (the threads are very fine/delicate); and filing out a flat on the bottom/rear of the installed bbl to give the cylinder pin clearance for removing the cylinder.

I didn't want to remove the 16-/2" bbl to file the flat because the filing job takes several steps to sneak up on the clearance required, and I didn't think the those delicate threads would stand up to repeated/multiple R&R's during the filing steps.

.

[Honky Tonk Man]

Thanks for the answers pietro.  I guessed you no longer had it because you didn't post a picture.  Yes I knew about the 26" O.A.L. rule.  I had an FFL for years, but let it lapse when I had to move to IL.  At the time they were talking about making it much more expensive to maintain, with many more rules.  I got it to get guns cheaper for myself, my family and friends.  Fun while it lasted!

I had access to many more tools back then.  I think making one of those would have been do-able.  Not anymore, but if NAA decided to crank some out; I'd be on the buyers list.  Thanks for sharing your experience. 

[Warthog]

I did this with a 10/22, wanted to make it look like an AK type rifle, this was during the Clinton Ban, but the 10/22 I used was old enough to have a folding stock on it anyway.

I would buy an NAA rifle but I just can't see it happening.  It would be something they had never tried before and would take a fair bit of R&D then some retooling and capital investment.  NAA is a small company, it doesn't have the cash the huge makers do so it isn't likely.

[glenn]

Me & UncleLee would buy a pair of the rifles in .32 acp !


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[OV-1D]

I did this with a 10/22, wanted to make it look like an AK type rifle, this was during the Clinton Ban, but the 10/22 I used was old enough to have a folding stock on it anyway.

I would buy an NAA rifle but I just can't see it happening.  It would be something they had never tried before and would take a fair bit of R&D then some retooling and capital investment.  NAA is a small company, it doesn't have the cash the huge makers do so it isn't likely.

  Warty I just haven't had any great luck with those plastic banana magazines unless they have a metal feed area . Early plastic ones I had to super glue the devil out of them but that plastic feed soon goes to heII .

[Uncle_Lee]

Me & UncleLee would buy a pair of the rifles in .32 acp !


.

In a microsecond.
Yep, .32 acp...

[Warthog]

These have a metal feed lip on them, they have worked well for me at least.

[OV-1D]

  Yeah stay away from any plastic feed ramps mine even started to separate after a while but those were early ones sorta had that translucent  smoke black plastic , heck they only stayed together a very short time like three or four loadings .

[top dog]

Animl,

First welcome to the forum.

If NAA made a 16 in bbl revolver with a folding stock it would come under NFA (Class 3) requirements and require the tax stamp and very long wait.

Something along those lines is now readily available with no tax stamp and that is the Henry Survival Rifle.

Go to their website  (henryusa) and look it up. You might be pleasantly surprised.

                                                                                                                                        Top Dog

[Warthog]

  Yeah stay away from any plastic feed ramps mine even started to separate after a while but those were early ones sorta had that translucent  smoke black plastic , heck they only stayed together a very short time like three or four loadings .

I also have some Aluminum Mags for my 10/22, all Al.  Steel feed lips and they were adjustable as to the tilt so you could fine tune them to feed perfectly.  Haven't seen those for more thn ten years but I still have ten of them and they still work.  Had to replace the springs in a couple, they had rusted when my area was flooded ten years back, but they too still work great.

[theysayimnotme]

Animl,

First welcome to the forum.

If NAA made a 16 in bbl revolver with a folding stock it would come under NFA (Class 3) requirements and require the tax stamp and very long wait.

Something along those lines is now readily available with no tax stamp and that is the Henry Survival Rifle.

Go to their website  (henryusa) and look it up. You might be pleasantly surprised.

                                                                                                                                        Top Dog

I've had one of the Charter Arms pistols & one of their rifles. Glad to be rid of both of those jam-o-matics. I am very happy with my Rossi take down .22 pump copy of the old Winchester.

[pietro]

If NAA made a 16 in bbl revolver with a folding stock it would come under NFA (Class 3) requirements and require the tax stamp and very long wait.

With all due respect top dog, you are in serious error. 

To wit - The BATF response letter to my inquiry on the legality of the conversion.








As can be seen after reading the last full paragraph, what you said would only apply if the conversion from handgun to long gun was later reversed.

BTW, I have no clue, as to why the response was about Uzi's & T/C Contenders.


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[theysayimnotme]

That still doesn't cover the fact that the firearm can be fired when folded & would then be shorter than 26 ". The Winchester & Rossi 62s, the Henry & Charter Arms & Marlin take down rifles & the Savage single shot rifle all cannot be fired when taken down. The adjustable stock on the AR-16 rifles still are at least 26" overall.

[OV-1D]

If NAA made a 16 in bbl revolver with a folding stock it would come under NFA (Class 3) requirements and require the tax stamp and very long wait.

With all due respect top dog, you are in serious error. 

To wit - The BATF response letter to my inquiry on the legality of the conversion.








As can be seen after reading the last full paragraph, what you said would only apply if the conversion from handgun to long gun was later reversed.

BTW, I have no clue, as to why the response was about Uzi's & T/C Contenders.


.

   Pietro on your behalf I've sent a letter back to them regarding your inquiry to go scre* themselves , I hope that's O.K.  Ha ,ha ,ha ,ha . Did I hear a knock on your door ?

[bill_deshivs]

It doesn't matter that a folding stock gun can be fired when folded.
And they have to be 26" with the stock EXTENDED, not folded.

[pietro]

It doesn't matter that a folding stock gun can be fired when folded.
And they have to be 26" with the stock EXTENDED, not folded.

Amen.


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[theysayimnotme]

I suspect they would argue that if you can fire it with the stock folded & it is less than 26" you have made a pistol out of a rifle.
Can you give me any examples of ones that are legal?

[top dog]

Theysay,

When Henry Rifle took over the production rights for the Survival Rifle,they made a number of significant improvements.

I had a Charter and when it did not jam,it went full auto....not good.

The original Armalite was not that great and in '74 when Charter started making them,they were not that great at all.

My Henry Survival Rifle is spot on and once I found the ammo it preferred,it purred right along.

                                                                                                     Top Dog