CCI solid copper 22 bullet ammo

[grayelky]

Got this in an email, and was browsing. I was unaware they produced this. If it is like other solid copper bullet ammo, I suspect it will do well in the short barreled minis, and great in the longer barreled guns. Velocity is advertised at 1850 FPS.

http://www.jgsales.com/22lr-cci-copper-22-21gr-solid-copper-ammo,-50rd-box.-925cc-p-98865.html

[bill_deshivs]

While they call it "solid copper," it isn't. Notice "compressed copper/polymer constructed bullet."
Sounds basically like a lead-free frangible range round to me. A 21 grain bullet is extremely light and would offer substandard penetration.

[pennsy]

I may be wrong, but I think I saw a review of this ammo where it did poorly . Terrible accuracy if I remember correctly.

Edit : checked 22 plinkster's review and it did ok up to 50 yds.

[Canoeal]

Yeah, 22 grain bullet seems way to light. No momentum= no penetration...

[billmeek]

Edit : checked 22 plinkster's review and it did ok up to 50 yds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyuVEexAXaw

[SteveZ-FL]

Checked out all the reviews I could find online.  The most interesting I found related to NAA minis was this one: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/11/jeremy-s/ammo-review-follow-cci-copper-22/

Have not tried this ammunition yet, but find it intriguing enough to give it a chance.  I do have to hand it to CCI to "forward-think" regarding the lead issue and what the future may have in store.

[bearcatter]

I understand it's a plastic bullet coated with copper. Won't it end up on the "bad" list with plastic drinking straws?......

[bill_deshivs]

It's actually powdered copper mixed with plastic.

[redhawk4]

Such a light bullet in a short barrel like the NAA's will surely lead to a huge drop in velocity versus a rifle. If my thinking is correct, in a short barrel a heavy bullet gives better relative velocity and muzzle energy, as it takes more energy to get it moving and so more of the explosive force from the powder is utilized before the bullet leaves the barrel and the remaining energy of unburned powder is wasted. It seems this round would therefore suffer poor penetration, due to the light bullet and lower energy on impact.

When I read copper bullet, I was quite excited at the idea of a solid copper projectile. It seems this one is aimed more to satisfy the anti lead brigade, as opposed to providing any performance benefit to the shooter.

[billmeek]

The powder for the ammo is optimized for the bullet weight to provide an expected velocity out of a given length of barrel.  The weight of the bullet won't matter significantly to the kinetic energy change between 2 rounds fired from shorter barrels.  It's the speed of the burn of the powder.

The kinetic energy (in foot pounds) is muzzle velocity (fps) squared x bullet weight (in grains) /450240.  CCI SV (40 grain) has 104 Ke and CCI Copper (21 grain) is 160 Ke.  If we can assume that the powder in both is formulated to burn at the same rate (i.e. maximized for a 20 inch barrel), then both should lose an equal percentage of their energy by being fired out of a short barrel.  The exact formulation of the powder may provide some differences as it could burn on a different curve.

[Honky Tonk Man]

I agree Redhawk.  It sounds like CCI is being proactive, in case lead bans are enacted.  I'm glad they're doing something.  Once the ban takes effect, it will mean jumping through hoops to get something out there.  I wonder if they considered a tungsten cored copper bullet.  It would be more expensive, but tungsten is heavier than many metals.  It's already in use for a steel shot substitute in waterfowl shotgun loads. 

[linux_author]

CCI could also help out the nuclear industry and use depleted uranium...

willie
on the 'just kidding' Gulf of Mexico

[Warthog]

CCI could also help out the nuclear industry and use depleted uranium...

willie
on the 'just kidding' Gulf of Mexico

Not likely, they are already up in arms about the milsurp stuff with the titanium penetrator. 

[redhawk4]

The powder for the ammo is optimized for the bullet weight to provide an expected velocity out of a given length of barrel.  The weight of the bullet won't matter significantly to the kinetic energy change between 2 rounds fired from shorter barrels.  It's the speed of the burn of the powder.

The kinetic energy (in foot pounds) is muzzle velocity (fps) squared x bullet weight (in grains) /450240.  CCI SV (40 grain) has 104 Ke and CCI Copper (21 grain) is 160 Ke.  If we can assume that the powder in both is formulated to burn at the same rate (i.e. maximized for a 20 inch barrel), then both should lose an equal percentage of their energy by being fired out of a short barrel.  The exact formulation of the powder may provide some differences as it could burn on a different curve.

The fact is no cartridge designed for a 20" barrel will utilise all the powder when fired from a 1 5/8" barrel, if it could, the bullet would lose velocity and have less MV out of a 20" barrel, than the 1 5/8". I've seen data for some cartridges where they bullets start to slow down after about 22 -24" of barrel length, because the powder charge gets burned while the bullet is still in the barrel. I don't profess to have extensively studied the matter, or necessarily have a complete understanding, but know I read somewhere something to the effect of what I tried to put forward as an idea, and that was that heavier bullets will perform better when fired from short barrels because more energy is required to accelerate the bullet out of the barrel and so the bullet remains for longer in the barrel, when we are talking about a barrel length which is below optimum for the powder capacity of the cartridge. While this is the theory, I don't know how much the difference would be in reality, but when you are using a 22 round in a small pistol, everything is more critical than if we were considering a 44 magnum, where the discussion would be one of whether one type of dead is deader than another.

[Canoeal]

That is why I use Gold Dots and Hornady's. The powder burns faster, and is generally used up in a shorter, say 6" barrel ( not sure the exact limit)... The only increase in velocity after that, should be from the built up pressure...Based on the size of the flame from rifle rounds, a lot seems wasted.

[SteveZ-FL]

In the article I included in an earlier post the author measured muzzle velocity from a 1 1/8" mini at 1009 FPS with Coppers, then from the same handgun got 797.4 FPS with Stingers.

Using billmeek's formula and the article author's values, that gives from a 1 1/8" mini a "Copper" @ 47.5 foot-pounds and a "Stinger" @ 48.0 foot-pounds.  That to me is not that statistically different enough to rule out the Coppers as a viable ammunition.  In fact, it is interesting enough to feel comfortable using the Coppers instead of Stingers.

By the way, a handy muzzle-energy calculator is available online at " http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php".