NAA Rapid Fire

[Gun1]

Hey, just out of curiosity what's the fastest that someone could empty all of the their 5 shots 2 handed and then 1 handed for a NAA Mini.

[bearcatter]

If you're willing to risk a squib with live ammo, I'd guess maybe 6 seconds two handed, 8 or 9 one-handed. Just a few seconds more if you want to be sure each shot fired correctly. I've never fired a gun in a way that risks squibs. You could try it with snap caps or empty cases in the chambers.

[RogueTS1]

I could use my timer the next time out at the range and get a couple of runs put together for average on this. Could be interesting if I can remember to do it. 

[Houdini]

Two Handed:  Holding the revolver in my right hand(holster grip) with the left hand supporting the weapon and cocking the hammer with my left thumb.  I can pull the trigger with my right index finger, cock the hammer with my left thumb and repeat shooting all five rounds in under 3 seconds.  It does not take much practice to do this and it feels very natural to most people who try it.

Single Handed:  Probably 5 seconds.  I'll have to give it a try and see.

[Canoeal]

It is not how fast you can shoot that counts at all. How fast can you hit the target where it needs to be hit?

[dlbind]

Under 3 seconds is pretty good. 

That kind of shooting isn't what I normally do.  I'm sure if I tried shooting that fast then there wouldn't be any resemblance to accuracy.

[RogueTS1]

Yes, how quickly to empty a Mini accurately center of mass at say 5 yards.

[dlbind]

RogueTS1-  Sounds like the making of a competition.  I'll have to give it a try. 

I don't have a timer so I'll have to use my phone as a guide.  It'll be slightly better than guessing!

[SteveZ-FL]

Small-grip single action revolvers and speed-firing (just for time's sake)  is an accident waiting to happen.  If the goal is to obtain accuracy-on-target rapidly, then it's a matter of practice with "accuracy" being the factor, not the clock.  If the goal is simply to hear "bang" five times in the shortest time frame, please don't attempt it near me.

[RogueTS1]

Sounds like the making of a competition.

That is what I was thinking. If/when I get a chance I will report. 

[coppertop]

Why would you?

First, it's not how fast you fire a handgun that's important. It's where those shots land that is key.
Second, the NAA Mini's aren't designed for speed shooting.
Third, you don't have much gun to hang onto and you run the risk of losing your grip as you fan the hammer. This could have terrible results.

It's dangerous to try to make a handgun (or any weapon) perform outside its design. I understand the desire to have a little fun at the range but you should never lose sight that these tiny pistols can blow your fingers off or worse. I'd rather spend the time working on my accuracy.

[Gun1]

Sounds like the making of a competition.

That is what I was thinking. If/when I get a chance I will report. 

Just tried it. 5 seconds for the 5 rounds two handed at 15 yards; pretty slow for SD I am told. Plus I didn't hit the target with any of the 5 shots.

[Bj]

To me a better challenge would be how fast for 5 shots on target, then for a bonus try a timed 15 shots on target involving two reloads. All with due care for safety.  Kind of like baseball, 3 strikes pitched is better than 100 wild pitches.  Just my opinion, to each his own.

[Canoeal]

IF I was needing to shoot fast and accurately, and to expect to reload twice and be accurate my BW stays in the pocket and my charter w/two speed loaders comes out of the pack. You can't do what you can't do. The Charter is practiced to 25 yds the BW  out to 15. good reason for that.
I usually don't carry a reload for the BW, only when the places are a chance to shoot. You ain't reloading that when the SHTF.

[Uncle_Lee]

Did you ever/Do you ever burn rubber in your car or truck?
It is hard on every part of the car/truck.
It doesn't get you anywhere faster.
It just gives the driver a little or maybe big rush.
Same thing in emptying a gun fast.
Gives a good feeling for a short time.

Same feeling (sort of) as emptying a 30 round mag out of a full auto in one burst.
Any one that has ever shot a full auto has either done that or wanted to do it.

[SteveZ-FL]

It must be me.  I don't understand the fascination about super-rapid-firing five rounds from a mini.  That's using the mini as a toy, and hopefully the toy is only loaded with blanks, if loaded at all.  A loaded mini is either a last-chance weapon when there are other choices or a primary carry based on handling experience and prudent threat assessment.  With live ammunition, the mini is as much of a potential killer as an AR-15 and IMHO should be handled as such.

Firing five at super-speed from a mini may not alleviate a threat, but will leave one holding a steel blob useable only as a rock.  When one expends all their ammunition at one obvious threat, there's nothing left for the surprise in the shadows.

I can understand (and do practice) double-taps with a mini, leaving three in the cylinder for any needed follow-up and in case there is a secondary threat which was not immediately recognized.  I was taught early in life that an empty weapon in the face of more threat than expected is just weighted junk.  Burning off all one's ammo in one blast may look cool in the movies, but in the movies no one ever runs into additional threats while out of ammo.

[dlbind]

I agree to those mentioning accuracy as the primary goal.  If it's a competition you can make a time penalty for every shot not on target.

@gun1-I suspect if I could shoot 5 rounds in 5 seconds I wouldn't hit the target at 15 yards either.  I'm not sure what's considered self defense good.

I'm not sure about the reloading.  Perhaps if you get into something like cowboy action shooting where you have to move.  That's getting a bit more serious.

@Coppertop-I agree doing something outside of the capabilities of you and your equipment is foolishly dangerous.  I'm not sure that me shooting accurately as fast as I can with my mini fits that description though.   I don't fan the hammer and I've put bigger grips on my mini.  Your concerns are well founded and those not willing to be safe should be willing to accept the consequences. 

I don't drag race because I can't do it safely and it's beyond my ability.  I do see how fast my vehicle will go in certain situations.  There is a difference. I guess I'm envisioning something a bit different than the original post......I want to know how fast with accuracy not just how fast.

[heyjoe]

Did you ever/Do you ever burn rubber in your car or truck?
It is hard on every part of the car/truck.
It doesn't get you anywhere faster.
It just gives the driver a little or maybe big rush.
Same thing in emptying a gun fast.
Gives a good feeling for a short time.

Same feeling (sort of) as emptying a 30 round mag out of a full auto in one burst.
Any one that has ever shot a full auto has either done that or wanted to do it.

exactly....there is a whole lot of over thinking going on here........minis can be fired for any number of purposes. dry firing, plinking, target shooting at whatever range you feel like playing with, slow accurate firing, practice for serious situations or just for fun.  Not everything is a life or death situation.

[bearcatter]

Jeff Cooper had some serious but fun comments on combat shooting. He said, "You have to shoot fast, real slow" , and "You can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight". Those thoughts simply stress that accuracy is much more important than speed.

[Uncle_Lee]

It is fun sometimes to just shoot.
Every shot I shoot is not a serious practice shot. I like to hear it go "bang" and feel the recoil.

Have you ever been on a hill overlooking a lake and shoot into the water just to see it splash?
I know that it is not legal now days but I still do it now and then.

A handgun is not just a self defense weapon. It can be fun also.

[ikoiko]

In days gone by, I had a lot of fun shooting little chunks of 2x4 on a duck weed covered swamp. Make them jump. Miss, able to tell right where you hit. Ruger  mk II with a bull barrel .

[OV-1D]

  Love those guns that are made for a controlled shoot rapidly . Todays semi's are made to make those hand jive rappers dance instead of western six shooters on cow pokes ..

[RogueTS1]

Is it so hard to understand the concept of "seeing how fast one can fire five shots from a Mini while keeping them on target?" The purpose is fun. It is not going to break anything (who said anything about fanning?) Good self defense is all about firing as quickly as one can hit one's target. (Speed & Accuracy win the fight.)

Nothing personal but anybody here talking about this has had way too much experience with firing Minis to accidentally shoot themselves while firing fast. Maybe you have not considered replacing the grips with something one can actually hang onto?

[Canoeal]

I did...

[Uncle_Lee]

Me too.

[SteveZ-FL]

So have I, many moons ago.  Fun-firing is fine, most of us do it.  SD is not fun-firing and requires a different mindset.  Maybe I'm too cautious, but to me it's important to acknowledge the difference, especially in discussions where folk of various skill and experience level congregate.   While I would like to believe that someone attempting five-shot rapid-fire with a mini is an experienced, safety-conscious shooter, I've seen too many dumb things done at a range to bet on it.  Worse is that the accident often  seems to affect someone other than the shooter.   

[Gun1]

Bump

[theysayimnotme]

Three seconds would be  fast. Olympic rapid fire requires 5 shots on five different targets in four seconds. (At 25 meters} I just looked it up & discovered they no longer allow .22 shorts. That makes me feel a little better about having sold my Hi Standard Olympic pistol.

[Dinadan]

Did you ever/Do you ever burn rubber in your car or truck?
It is hard on every part of the car/truck.
It doesn't get you anywhere faster.
It just gives the driver a little or maybe big rush.
Same thing in emptying a gun fast.
Gives a good feeling for a short time.

Same feeling (sort of) as emptying a 30 round mag out of a full auto in one burst.
Any one that has ever shot a full auto has either done that or wanted to do it.

exactly....there is a whole lot of over thinking going on here........minis can be fired for any number of purposes. dry firing, plinking, target shooting at whatever range you feel like playing with, slow accurate firing, practice for serious situations or just for fun.  Not everything is a life or death situation.

I agree with Uncle Lee and Heyjoe. I used to love seeing how fast I could empty my Remington Nylon 66 semi auto .22, or my Browning lever action .22. Accuracy be darned, I just loved shooting. Of course, it helped that I lived way out in the woods and ammo was cheap!


For the folks who want to be serious, I think it is like with martial arts. If you want to be excellent, you practice a move until you can execute it perfectly at a fairly slow  speed. Then you work on speeding it up. If you cannot get the moves down perfectly at a comfortable speed you are not going to do them perfectly at a much faster speed. I have not worked on shooting five rounds out of my Minis at great speed. Just never wanted to. However, I have practiced drawing and firing one or two rounds as fast as possible. To me that is a realistic exercise of a possible real life scenario. 

[OV-1D]

  Your last two lines say it all Dinadan .

[Gun1]

Did you ever/Do you ever burn rubber in your car or truck?
It is hard on every part of the car/truck.
It doesn't get you anywhere faster.
It just gives the driver a little or maybe big rush.
Same thing in emptying a gun fast.
Gives a good feeling for a short time.

Same feeling (sort of) as emptying a 30 round mag out of a full auto in one burst.
Any one that has ever shot a full auto has either done that or wanted to do it.

exactly....there is a whole lot of over thinking going on here........minis can be fired for any number of purposes. dry firing, plinking, target shooting at whatever range you feel like playing with, slow accurate firing, practice for serious situations or just for fun.  Not everything is a life or death situation.

I agree with Uncle Lee and Heyjoe. I used to love seeing how fast I could empty my Remington Nylon 66 semi auto .22, or my Browning lever action .22. Accuracy be darned, I just loved shooting. Of course, it helped that I lived way out in the woods and ammo was cheap!


For the folks who want to be serious, I think it is like with martial arts. If you want to be excellent, you practice a move until you can execute it perfectly at a fairly slow  speed. Then you work on speeding it up. If you cannot get the moves down perfectly at a comfortable speed you are not going to do them perfectly at a much faster speed. I have not worked on shooting five rounds out of my Minis at great speed. Just never wanted to. However, I have practiced drawing and firing one or two rounds as fast as possible. To me that is a realistic exercise of a possible real life scenario.

Just curious, how fast can you doubletap?

[riadat]

Not designed for that.

NAA is a "surprise" gun.

[Dinadan]

Just curious, how fast can you doubletap?

Not real fast - two seconds between shots, I think, maybe one and a half. When I am practicing I cock the hammer as I draw from my pocket and fire the first round from the hip, more or less. Second round is more or less aimed from eye level.


For me, the part that needs most practice is making sure that my fingers are in the right position as I initially grip the Mini for the draw. If my thumb is not just where it needs to be on the hammer, and my finger where it needs to be on the trigger, middle fingers on the grip, then it will not be a smooth exercise in drawing and shooting. I think there will always be a bit of a trade off between speed and precision of movement. I prefer precision, and once precision is achieved, speed comes with practice.


My favorite self defense exercise is to stick a large target on a very large tree. Then stand about six feet away and do the draw shoot routine. I have not done that for a few months; I need to get back out in the swamp and refresh my moves.

[heyjoe]

Just curious, how fast can you doubletap?

Not real fast - two seconds between shots, I think, maybe one and a half. When I am practicing I cock the hammer as I draw from my pocket and fire the first round from the hip, more or less. Second round is more or less aimed from eye level.


For me, the part that needs most practice is making sure that my fingers are in the right position as I initially grip the Mini for the draw. If my thumb is not just where it needs to be on the hammer, and my finger where it needs to be on the trigger, middle fingers on the grip, then it will not be a smooth exercise in drawing and shooting. I think there will always be a bit of a trade off between speed and precision of movement. I prefer precision, and once precision is achieved, speed comes with practice.


My favorite self defense exercise is to stick a large target on a very large tree. Then stand about six feet away and do the draw shoot routine. I have not done that for a few months; I need to get back out in the swamp and refresh my moves.

excellent practice routine. practicing shooting as soon as clearing leather or getting it out of the pocket is very important. When your life is in peril there isnt time to take an aimed shot.