Guardian is a too well kept secret

[bearcatter]

Just did my monthly perusal of the Ruger forums. One thread started in October asked if anyone carried a mouse gun. There are 121 posts, and not a single mention of either Guardian. Even the LCP only got a few mentions (on a Ruger forum?), and Seecamp maybe six. Kel-Tec P-32 and Berettas got the most. There were, IIRC, two mentions of Minis. Several posts were the usual caliber war with no gun mentioned.

Even on other forums, threads specifically about Guardians tend to be short and drift to a different gun. Being a huge fan of the Guardian 32, I don't understand that so many seem to have never even heard of either Guardian.  ?..?..?

[bill_deshivs]

I have a Guardian. They are nice guns.
But, if you ever held/shot a P32, you would understand why they aren't more popular.
The Guardian is thicker/heavier/bigger than the Seecamp that it copies, and they are much thicker/heavier than the Keltec.
The Keltec's locked breech action makes recoil much more manageable than the NAA's blowback action.

[mainstreet]

Interesting thread. I have had a carry permit for many years, and have carried A colt 38 Special Revolver, A Charter Arms Undercover 38 Special Revolver, A Ruger LCR 38 Special Revolver, A Ruger LCP .380, A NAA Black Widow .22 WMR, and they are all now Safe Queens. My favorite carry gun of all time, which I now pocket carry all the time, is the Kel-Tec P-32, due to it's small size, light weight, low recoil, and adequate ballistics.

[bearcatter]

Guardian 32 is a quarter inch longer than Seecamp, two hundredths less height, a whole hundredth thinner. Ounce and a quarter heavier loaded. Wow. Handles most any ammo equally. Has a 1911 style mag release and no mag safety. Much easier take-down than the Seecamp.

Tenth of an inch thicker than the Kel-Tec and five ounces heavier loaded. The P-32 is slightly longer and taller than Guardian or Seecamp. The locked breech may be significant, but .32 ACP is pretty tame without it. The P32's weight is the only real plus of the three guns, but has a plastic frame, trigger, drawbar, guide rod, and pivot pins to get there. No thanks.

I'm going to give up high quality all stainless construction for five less ounces?  No way, Jose....Guardian sales should be a lot higher, if people just knew all the correct info.

[bill_deshivs]

Here is some "correct" info:

If you want to carry the lightest, thinnest, lowest-recoil .32 acp pistol in your pocket, the Keltec is by far the winner.
The frame on the Keltec is aluminum, not plastic. The grip frame is plastic. The drawbar is steel. The pins simply hold the frame in the grip frame-it makes no difference what they are made of. The guide rod is plastic because it is designed to be able to flex when the gun is fired.

Five ounces is quite a bit of weight difference-at least to me and a lot of others.

As I said, the Guardian is a good gun. Mine is engraved, polished, lightened, and has upgraded sights. I still carry a P32.

[Canoeal]

The reason the Guardian and 32 auto pocket pistols in general are not popular, is the fact they are considered a gun for an older, wiser carrier. No 'bigger is better' attitude, no machismo, just the carrying is better than not.
The failure of the gun makers is to realize this and to make them with older wiser sights. The first one to find a way to make small visible sights and make them standard, will win the market hands down. JMHO

One of the reasons I like my BW...

[Wumbey Goomba]

I want to like the Guardian, I like the looks, the feel, I appreciate the all
stainless construction. I just don't like double action only.

[theysayimnotme]

Sights? We don't need no stinking sights. Mine has been melted. The gun I would like to have is the Ruger LCP but it is not available here in the DPRK.

[jlh48]

The Guardian is a very nice, well built pistol, made of high quality Stainless Steel. I carry a NAA .22 Mag all the time and love NAA products. The problem with the Guardian is its way heavier than my other daily edc, the Ruger LCP 380. Not only is a 380 round more powerful than a 32, an LCP is so lightweight and easy to carry, you don't even realize its in your pocket, just like my NAA .22 Mag. I have a LCP with Stainless Steel Slide, carry it in hot sweat pocket all summer, and never any rust, easy to clean, and is perfect for carry. Nothing wrong with a Guardian 32. However, most people rather carry the best pocket caliber and pistol they can, and not realize they even have it on them. That is where the Ruger LCP 380 is the perfect pocket carry over a heavier and smaller caliber 32.

[RogueTS1]

The problem with the Guardian is its way heavier than my other daily edc, the Ruger LCP 380.

I like both. The Guardian needs Custom Sights added before making it a great carry gun. The LCP needed much more than that to make it a great carry gun. (It still does not have great sights though. It does have a laser though.) Compare them:

PS: I believe NAA Custom Shop worked on my Guardian's trigger when they did the other things to it. It came home much smoother and a tad lighter than when it left. 

[bill_deshivs]

The LCP is a direct copy of the Keltec P3AT, except Ruger made it heavier so people would think it's "better." It's not.
And the P3AT is bigger and heavier than the P32.

[Canoeal]

Sights? We don't need no stinking sights. Mine has been melted. The gun I would like to have is the Ruger LCP but it is not available here in the DPRK.

So you are 'special'... All I am saying is that if you are one like me, and a couple million like me, you carry because you got older. Older folks need sights that they can see especially if they, new, are going to shoot it, get intimately familiar with its workings, and not be a danger to others. If you want to get into the markets you are missing, old guys that have shot forever, is not your new market. New shooters, older new shooters, women looking for a first carry gun are part of the potential new market. Sights would help. One of the things in my research to by what I wanted for my first carry gun was the ability to hold it on target; that requires good grips and sights to see that I could keep it on target. I do not think I am alone. Look all over this forum and you will see threads on grips and sights. The Guardians are missing in that front as are most .32s.
You say you don't need sights, but I don't see you posting 10 yd targets with that .32 Guardian...
Lite pipes are new on Charters, as are better grips. look at the new models of Keltecs. The makers are learning; time to keep at least up if you want to compete in the small semi auto market.

[grayelky]

The Guardian is a very nice, well built pistol, made of high quality Stainless Steel. I carry a NAA .22 Mag all the time and love NAA products. The problem with the Guardian is its way heavier than my other daily edc, the Ruger LCP 380. Not only is a 380 round more powerful than a 32, an LCP is so lightweight and easy to carry, you don't even realize its in your pocket, just like my NAA .22 Mag. I have a LCP with Stainless Steel Slide, carry it in hot sweat pocket all summer, and never any rust, easy to clean, and is perfect for carry. Nothing wrong with a Guardian 32. However, most people rather carry the best pocket caliber and pistol they can, and not realize they even have it on them. That is where the Ruger LCP 380 is the perfect pocket carry over a heavier and smaller caliber 32.

Agreed, the 380 is a more powerful round, which also, by the laws of physics, has more recoil. The majority of people who carry, if they were to actually shoot a .32 ACP and learn a little about actual performance in real life shooting situations, would not bother with the added recoil of the .380 ACP. in such a light pistol, the LCP is known for jams, related back to the inexperience of the shooter. The .32 has noticeable less recoil, in a marginally lighter (if any) pistol, is easier to make hits on target, yet is only very slightly less efficient in real world shootings. The short version is, the juice ain't worth the squeeze.

[jlh48]

The Ruger LCP is by far the most popular and best selling pocket pistol ever produced. The regular LCP is very similar to the Keltec if not almost the same. But anyone that compares the two can clearly see the Ruger is definitely a more quality piece for the money. The original sights on the LCP were very low profile. However, they have increased them slightly and too me are very easy to see and get on target. I, and many others I know, carry the original LCP, and never had any jams whatsoever. I have heard of people having jamming issues with the new and different pistol the LCP 2. Everyone has their preference which I totally accept and embrace. I just feel the reason for the popularity in the LCP is because of the lightweight, and more powerful 380 auto round. It does seem to have more recoil than a 32, but practice with it will always get shooters used to it. I think the Guardian is a excellent and well built pistol for sure however and is a million times more quality than a Keltec or any of the others mentioned.

[bill_deshivs]

I have a P3AT, but have never bothered to shoot it.
I have 4 P32s.
My Guardian is a nice little gun and it shoots well. It's just too heavy for pocket carry.

[holiday009]

Wonder how many guardian series guns are made yearly compared to the mini revolvers?

[bearcatter]

Agreed, the 380 is a more powerful round, which also, by the laws of physics, has more recoil. The majority of people who carry, if they were to actually shoot a .32 ACP and learn a little about actual performance in real life shooting situations, would not bother with the added recoil of the .380 ACP. in such a light pistol.........The .32 has noticeable less recoil, in a marginally lighter (if any) pistol, is easier to make hits on target, yet is only very slightly less efficient in real world shootings. The short version is, the juice ain’t worth the squeeze.

Thank you for that. One of the very few postings anywhere online that applies fact and logic to the choice of .32 ACP over .380. I did a lot of research before deciding on the 32, considering the weight, size, recoil, recovery, and terminal ballistics of both. .380 has a very slight gain in real world performance that's not worth the negatives.

Wonder how many guardian series guns are made yearly compared to the mini revolvers?

Not many -

NAA pistol production numbers - From ATF data

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/data-statistics


Caliber                    25                  32                 380

2007                         2                 813               616

2008                                          1836              1988

2009                                          2624              3426

2010                      62                  422              1000

2011                      18                  223                575

2012                        9                  227                352

2013                      19                  238                430

2014                      21                  294                310

2015                        8                  108                206

2016                      14                  318                148

2017                      50                  440                319

Totals                  203                 7543              9370

These numbers include the NAA25 and NAA32 bottleneck cartridge Guardians.

In 2017 alone, NAA produced 46,138  .22 caliber revolvers

[holiday009]

Good info
Thanks for that !

[OV-1D]

Thanks Bear that's good information .

[holiday009]

The Mini's are their bread n butter then 

[bearcatter]

Don't give me the credit. Someone else posted the numbers a while back, I think Dinadan, but not sure.

Pretty amazing that in ten years, only a third as many Guardians as one year of minis. I'm grateful that NAA still finds a reason to make Guardians. With those small numbers, most companies might not bother.

[heyjoe]

Don't give me the credit. Someone else posted the numbers a while back, I think Dinadan, but not sure.

Pretty amazing that in ten years, only a third as many Guardians as one year of minis. I'm grateful that NAA still finds a reason to make Guardians. With those small numbers, most companies might not bother.

A Guardian 32 ACP with a custom serial number was my first NAA. I would get a 25 NAA if the ammo was available. I wish they would make a 25 acp Guardian.

[bearcatter]

I'd buy one in .22 LR. Would be cheaper practice for the other Guardians, and just plain fun.

[heyjoe]

I'd buy one in .22 LR. Would be cheaper practice for the other Guardians, and just plain fun.

i think a 22lr would be a big seller if it was reliable.

[seaotter]

I have a Guardian 380. I also own a Taurus TCP. The Taurus is much lighter. It has less recoil. It has a much lighter trigger. I know that a lot of people like to bash Taurus, with reason, but after 6 years and maybe 5 hundred rounds the TCP has been perfect with the factory mag (a cheap Promag mag doesn't work well with hollow points, but I can't fault the gun for that). So my TCP is a good one. But I rarely carry it. In fact, hardly ever. Instead I carry my Guardian. Why?
-because I like the double only action trigger. I just don't like carrying something in my pocket that is literally half cocked. And the TCPs trigger is pretty light. The Guardian is not going to go off unless I really truly want it to. I find that reassuring.
- I like the weight and the  trigger because both are very similar to my hiking gun, a .38 J frame. The similarity makes it easier to go from one to the other.
- the Guardian fits my hand better. The grip is wider, and fills my hand better. The TCP (and the LCP and p32) have grips that are hard to hold onto.
- I actually like the Guardian sights. Up close and personal I don't really need sights, but the very fine sights on the Guardian allow for rather accurate shooting at up to 50 yards. The guys at at The Truth About Guns we're hitting steel at 100 yards. That's pretty impressive!

But all that applies only to me. The Guardian is never going to be mainstream. Most people aren't going to like it (for the reasons expressed above). It certainly isn't a perfect firearm.
BUT... it is my preferred 380 auto pocket pistol, and had been for several years. I doubt that I will ever get rid of it. It certainly isn't going to wear out.

I do like my BW better, tho.

[grumpyoleman]

The mini revolvers are so good,in my most humble opinion , that they are Their own built in competition...

[jstert]

my very first naa was a guardian 32acp, but a bugout1 followed.  indeed my naa mini is my guardian's biggest competitor for edc. 

[franco22]

I don't own a Guardian but I have no quarrel with those that choose to carry one. I carry a P32 around the house and a Remington RM380 when I go out during the day. I move up to 9mm if I go out at night. I think it's great that we have so many options.

[jstert]

imho the problem with mouse guns is that there are too few affordable, reliable, mainstream, soft choices.  a true mouse gun should be 32acp or under in caliber.  probably a large number of potential mouse gun owners are past being recoil junkies, if they ever were.  i tried a ruger lcp once, but couldn't get through a whole mag of its 380acp, way too uncomfortable.  if i am going to carry any handgun, it needs much and continual, i.e. comfortable, range practice.  in this regard a naa guardian 32acp is on the bubble, but a naa mini 22lr bugout1 with cv grips is on the money.  show me any semiauto 380acp ruger, taurus, remington, kahr or s&w current mouse gun but rechambered in 32acp or 25acp or even 22lr and my wallet opens.

[OV-1D]

  Beretta 25.

[bearcatter]

show me any semiauto 380acp ruger, taurus, remington, kahr or s&w current mouse gun but rechambered in 32acp or 25acp or even 22lr and my wallet opens.

I've done Ruger's "Tell The CEO" suggesting a .32 LCP. Not that I want the Guardian to have more competition, just that more .32ACP guns on the market would help keep the cartridge selling. The "bigger is better" dummies have done their best to kill it, while shaking their sore .380 hands...

I would also like a .22LR Guardian for cheaper practice, and fun. I think I've mentioned that, every chance I get......

[heyjoe]

show me any semiauto 380acp ruger, taurus, remington, kahr or s&w current mouse gun but rechambered in 32acp or 25acp or even 22lr and my wallet opens.

I've done Ruger's "Tell The CEO" suggesting a .32 LCP. Not that I want the Guardian to have more competition, just that more .32ACP guns on the market would help keep the cartridge selling. The "bigger is better" dummies have done their best to kill it, while shaking their sore .380 hands...

I would also like a .22LR Guardian for cheaper practice, and fun. I think I've mentioned that, every chance I get......

and a 25 acp

[jstert]

i just yesterday comparison-shot a new keltec p32 with my naa guardian 32.  when i get off probation here i will post photos and a review.  in short i was pleasantly surprised by the keltec, it felt better in hand when shooting over 100 rounds than did the naa at just 50 rounds. 

[grayelky]

The Ruger LCP is by far the most popular and best selling pocket pistol ever produced. The regular LCP is very similar to the Keltec if not almost the same. But anyone that compares the two can clearly see the Ruger is definitely a more quality piece for the money. The original sights on the LCP were very low profile. However, they have increased them slightly and too me are very easy to see and get on target. I, and many others I know, carry the original LCP, and never had any jams whatsoever. I have heard of people having jamming issues with the new and different pistol the LCP 2. Everyone has their preference which I totally accept and embrace. I just feel the reason for the popularity in the LCP is because of the lightweight, and more powerful 380 auto round. It does seem to have more recoil than a 32, but practice with it will always get shooters used to it. I think the Guardian is a excellent and well built pistol for sure however and is a million times more quality than a Keltec or any of the others mentioned.

anyone that compares the two can clearly see the Ruger is definitely a more quality piece for the money.
Agreed. KelTecs are built solid, but inexpensive. A little judicious hand work with a nail file will clean up the plastic grip, A LOT!

and many others I know, carry the original LCP, and never had any jams whatsoever
No surprise. I suspect you also shoot a fair bit, and are way more experienced than the average person who buys "a small gun, just so they can protect themselves." It would surprise you the money I make on these folks. They overlook the Laws of Physics, and actually expect the gun to have no recoil because it is so small and light.

I have heard of people having jamming issues with the new and different pistol the LCP 2 The overwhelming majority of jams in the small, light pistols is due to operator error. I have had many complain about it, and want me to fix their gun. Every time, I take it home and run 2-4 mags through it, and it will not jam. The look in their eyes has caused me to start videoing it being rapid fired, for the entire mag, and no jams. They can't believe it is due to them limp wristing the gun.

Everyone has their preference which I totally accept and embrace. I could not agree more!

I just feel the reason for the popularity in the LCP is because of the lightweight, and more powerful 380 auto round. In part, I agree. A large part is because their "brother-in-laws 3rd cousin on his daddy's side, knows a lot about guns, and he said to get ________" (you fill in the blank) My 55 plus years of shooting, reloading, ballistic research, and law enforcement training mean absolutely nothing when it comes to what their expert told them. That's okay, they will, after a little hands on experience, come back and pay more attention to what I suggest. I hate it for them, because I would prefer they actually enjoy learning to shoot, and to carry for their own protection. Having an LCP .380 ACP as their first gun is not the way to fall in love with our sport.

It does seem to have more recoil than a 32, but practice with it will always get shooters used to it. Again, we both agree. My position is still, the amount of recoil of the .380 ACP over the .32 ACP is not proportionately advantageous to make the .380 ACP worth its' extra recoil. The same practice with the .32 ACP will make them a much better shot, due to the lighter recoil. They will spend less time learning to control it, and more time actually getting better, than with the same amount of practice with the .380 ACP cartridge. The actual, real world shootings with the .32 ACP show it performs much, much closer to the predictions on paper of the .380 ACP, than it should. I don't mind recoil, but, I want something in return. When it comes to self defense, the .380 ACP just does not offer enough advantage in return for what you have to endure. For me personally, it is a moot point. I no longer carry a .380, nor my KelTec .32 or my Seecamp .32. Today's 9mm pistols are close enough in size, and only marginally heavier that I consider the extra weight versus the added "power" of the 9mm to be worth the trade off.

[LHB]

Supporting Greyelk's statement, reminds me of something I read some time ago about an experience with new shooters.

In the account, the teller stated that the club/range he belonged to required all new members to show there proficiency with their firearms, which basically was whether they could hit the 15 foot high berm at 25 yards.

A woman showed up with her new carry gun, to take the test.   He asked her about her experience with firearms, and she said that her husband was a long time shooter, and owned lots of guns, and he had been helping her practice.   The first problem came up when she didn't know how to load the magazine, so he loaded it for her.   Upon pulling the trigger, she screamed, and dropped the pistol, and started to scream that her pistol was damaged.   After recovering the pistol, and calming the woman, he asked what was the problem, and she replied that her pistol was damaged, and farther questioning brought out that the pistol had never jumped in her hand and made that loud noise before.   Farther questioning brought out that all the "practice" with her husband had been dry fire, and her husband was a long time shooter, a trap shooter, and didn't own a handgun.