After the Sidewinder where will the innovation lead

45flint · October-16-12 14:10

Please don't make this another 32 acp request, we have been there. But what can NAA really do now that they have a reloadable gun without removing the cylinder? I really don't see a double action coming. Actually I really don't see any innovation beyond cosmetics like barrel length.

stantheman86 · October-16-12 14:10

I would love to see a DAO .22 Magnum Mini, with an enclosed hammer........

I would also just love to see the Minis made with a loading gate, wouldn't be hard to do, just a spring loaded gate like the old Hopkins and Allen revolvers had, with a little groove to load the rounds. Add a little ejector and you have a self defense gun that keeps the simplicity of the Mini design, and can actually be reloaded in a self defense scenario if need be. The Sidewinders look neat, but will they actually ever be offered for regular purchase? I just want an NAA that I can actually carry spare ammo for........reloading my .22 LR Mini under stress is not something I would really think is possible.......

whitehorse · October-16-12 16:10

Resonably priced factory engraving would be nice.

heyjoe · October-16-12 16:10

it will most likely be more than a year and probably two before any significant innovation would be able to come down the pike once the sidewinder goes into production. I think they will sell many of those and are already at or near full production now.
I like Stan's ideas, a double action only with an enclosed hammer and a mini with a loading gate.
And of course a 32 acp mini

CavScout · October-17-12 01:10

I have no idea what the Casull DA was like, but I would guess the lockwork would have to be strong springs for reliable ignition considering the lightweight parts involved. That would seem to make an already marginal grip difficult to hold onto through a double action trigger pull.

And... would the increased cost of the more complex action put it in a competitive position against a Guardian for a Point-n-Shoot sidearm?

Cosmetic innovations seem to be handled by distributor special runs.

A SAA type action would require some lockwork innovation to release the cylinder bolt for loading/unloading cylinder rotation. The Sidewinder's recoil shield is a start towards integration of a loading gate. An ejector button large enough to be usable might look out of scale for the rest of the revolver.

The larger caliber issue has been repeated far too many times for Sandy and staff to ignore. There has to be hard decisions against it for them not engaging us on the topic.

I still like the idea of a Pepperbox design... either Allen or Sharps style.

Let's face it... the Ranger was a hard act to follow. Glad I got one.

Uncle_Lee · October-17-12 04:10

Quote from: 45flint on October-16-12 14:10
Please don't make this another 32 acp request, we have been there. But what can NAA really do now that they have a reloadable gun without removing the cylinder? I really don't see a double action coming. Actually I really don't see any innovation beyond cosmetics like barrel length.

Now that's doom & gloom.
NAA has reached the end of their knowledge.
Nothing left to make but little changes in the minis already on the market.

I can and will keep asking for a 32 acp mini as long as I breathe and the old heart beats.
You can tell me not to request it but I am going to do it.

32 acp mini, Please...

wild bill · October-17-12 07:10

Yes, uncle lee, a 32 acp mini. I want 2.

louiethelump · October-17-12 07:10

"Please don't make this another 32 acp request, we have been there."

So, we can re-hash what new item is coming out next, and re-hash the folding trigger (fragile parts) and the multi-barrel guns (bulky and heavy) but not the relatively simple conversion to the MOST COMMON 30 CAL PISTOL ROUND IN THE WORLD that has been popular for over 100 years.

That way we can listen to those that are mechanically challenged suggest (with MAGIC I guess) making a smaller gun with larger cartridges. Do we not think that the biggest HANDGUN manufacturer in the USA, namely Smith & Wesson, would not have created a mini DA gun smaller than the J frame if it was feasible to do so?

And we wonder and speculate on why this board has fewer and fewer posts.

louiethelump · October-17-12 07:10

*********************32acp mini please****************

Uncle_Lee · October-17-12 07:10

So good to hear from you Louie.

CavScout · October-17-12 10:10

I'm all there for a .32 revolver. I have five(5) Smith & Wesson 32's... three models that have been successfully used by others with .32ACP (Mod. 632, Mod. 32 J-frames, Pre-Mod. 30 I-frame).

I wouldn't want to try any kind of performance loads in my older Top Break S&W's, but they are an approximation of frame size needed for a five shot configuration. Modern metallurgy should allow some reduction in cross-section dimensions.

32-20 is a dream to shoot in an old Winchester 1892.

As I recall, NAA already exposed a .32 prototype at an industry show. Apparently not enough interest shown to pursue production.

Maybe the new .327 Federal Magnum revolvers will spark new interest in .32 pocket pistols? Cowboy Action Shooting renewed interest in many loadings that were considered extinct.

.32 revolver loadings have an impressive history in target shooting accuracy. And, they along with .32 pistols were staples for many Military and Police organizations in the early 20th Century.

heyjoe · October-18-12 07:10

Cav is your model 632 a .327 or 32 H&R?

heyjoe · October-18-12 07:10

32 ACP Mini

RogueTS1 · October-18-12 07:10

I second Heyjoe's motion!

CavScout · October-18-12 10:10

Quote from: heyjoe on October-18-12 07:10
Cav is your model 632 a .327 or 32 H&R?

It's the new Carry Com Pro (black) .327 Federal Magnum. I got it from Bud's on Gunbroker when they were the lowest price. Since then, the non-black versions have shown up on Gunbroker for about $100 less.

My one trip to the range ended up as a deafening experience. Even with my Sonic earplugs, the 'bark' was uncomfortable. And when my pardners tried telling me how I should consider handgun for the up-coming deer season, i had to wait for the 'ringing' to die down.

I'm sure a big part of the problem was standing in a range shack with the muzzle at, or just inside the window. I've since invested in a new pair of 29db earmuffs (all my old ones had over-aged cushions).

The shots were casual off-hand plinking at a gallon can about 25-30 yards downrange. Six rounds moved the can six times using single action. Very impressed with out-of-the-box accuracy. One of the other guys was sighting in his new Taurus 'Tracker' .357. He had to adjust several 'clicks' to get it to 'zero'.

Obviously, I have no ballistic stats, but that has been covered in several range reports since the 632 came out.

5_shooter · October-18-12 10:10

How about a .22 LR Guardian?

45flint · October-18-12 17:10

22 auto brilliant!!

CavScout · October-18-12 22:10

There is a very good functioning .22LR auto design out there... the Wilkinson Arms Sherry. It has been orphaned for years, since the company shut down. It was a family business, so I would guess any copyrights or other intellectual property rights would be in possession of a family member.

Some features that put it above the many pot-metal offerings during its time; machined/anodized aluminum frame. Machined steel slide, breach block and internal hammer (yes, hammer action, not striker). Wedge shaped magazine for staggered rims, so rounds stayed vertically parallel for reliable feeding.

I've had a couple, one here and one I gave to my Son. The only problem I had with function was traced to a dropped magazine that bent the top curl down. Once corrected, no more problems.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=254331

Dinadan · October-20-12 20:10

"After the Sidewinder where will the innovation lead?"

I think that "innovation" is the wrong word. Considering that basic revolver design is over 150 years old, I think that "refinement" or "historical replica" better describes any new feature. Seems like NAA could have a split in their revolver line - swing-out cylinder guns for lovers of modern (60 years ago) guns - and the Earl type guns for lovers of older (150 years ago) guns. That is assuming that the Sidewinder is really a sucessful design. I kind of have a feeling that a lot of folks are going to mess up their Sidewinder by opening the cylinder without going to halfcock. Maybe I am just a pessimist.

CavScout · October-21-12 01:10

Innovation, variation, replication... I think as long as we are all humming the same tune, the words we choose should have the same impact.

As far as mini-revolvers go, I see two major design considerations: Removable Cylinder, Captive Cylinder.

Removable cylinder variations have probably been covered by now for market demands, with distributors filling gaps with special runs.

NAA has only made two passes so far in the captive cylinder category. I think this category is worth nurturing.

No matter how many here see no problem with the removable cylinder system, there are surely many potential customers that take one look at the dealer or gun show and walk away without ever giving it a chance. What other modern revolver do they see that functions that way? The Sidewinder will show first time NAA buyer bias, if any, when it goes into normal distribution.

On the half-cock issue... I wonder if Freedom Arms' "Casull's Improvement" (floating firing pin in the frame) would be accessible?

And of course... we'd all like to see larger caliber offerings. Maybe a .32ACP Mini???

blue_heron · October-21-12 05:10

Although it's not likely due to the unavailability of ammo and/or finding an ammo manufacturer to produce it, I would like to see something chambered in the 5mm Rimfire such as offered in the Remington 591 Rifle.

Many of the older members of this forum are familiar with it. Here is a link to an article on the mentioned cartridge for those of my generation when the world was zombie free and the zombies hadn't overtaken the rabbit warrens.

http://www.varminter.com/particles/5mmpartone.htm

Uncle_Lee · October-21-12 06:10

They tried the .17 HMR and the .17 Mach II and didn't have the luck they thought they would. Too much trouble with the bottleneck cartridge backing out on recoil. ( or something like that, I've had no problems with mine)

usguns · February-26-13 12:02

Quote from: stantheman86 on October-16-12 14:10
I would love to see a DAO .22 Magnum Mini, with an enclosed hammer........
...

A DAO 5-shot .22 Magnum Mini Sidewinder with an enclosed hammer would really be something unique on the market.
However I think it would need a slightly bigger grip though to allow for a full 2-finger grip and perhaps maybe more room for additional lock-work?
Seems like a .22 Magnum version would be more do-able for NAA than a .32 ACP version?

cedarview kid · February-26-13 13:02

Let's take baby steps first--how about that four-inch Sidewinder? LOL.

oldguy · February-26-13 13:02

4" or 2.5" top of wish list for me.

45flint · February-26-13 15:02

You guys are incredible innovators

cedarview kid · February-26-13 15:02

Sometimes it pays to be simple. I'd also be happy with a 3-inch barrel!

Dinadan · February-26-13 16:02

Well, my doubts about the Sidewinder design have been pretty well allayed by putting 300 rounds through mine and having it work extremely well. At this point I agree with those who just want to see a longer barrel version. My choice would be 2.5" but I can understand if NAA wants to make a 4" California legal version first.

In less than two months my Sidewinder has become my favorite NAA to shoot. It is nice not having to worry about dropping the cylinder pin in the dead leaves when I reload. Having to remove the cylinder to reload has never bothered me, but on the other hand not having to remove the cylinder is very nice.

CavScout · February-27-13 04:02

I for one can testify that age can bring reduced sensitivity/flexibility in one's fingers. Fumbling small parts that used to be my forte has been an exercise in frustration. That's why I've resisted my natural urge to get an NAA cap-n-ball... Too many very small pieces/tool to manipulate during loading.

TwoGunJayne · February-27-13 09:02

How about the DAO High Standard-pattern 2 shot rimfire derringer in stainless? I recall a version of one that had exchangable breech blocks to allow a drop-in conversion from .22lr to .22mag. The removable breechblock was also a speed-loader of sorts. With NAA quality, warranty, and customer service I'd buy a pair in a heartbeat.

Perhaps NAA could remake the old Chicago Fireman Defender palm pistol? It was originally in .32 acp, by the way. Originals are old and super-valuable. A modern repro would be well-received by the collector market, I'm sure. It might satisfy the constant demands for a .32 acp mini, wouldn't it?

cedarview kid · February-27-13 09:02

If we're going to go with a 2-shot derringer, why not double it to a 4-shot derringer, like the Mossberg Brownie or the COP .357? I have two E.I.G. copies of the Brownie that include improvements to the original design, although the quality of the gun just isn't quite up to par with NAA. It would be cool for NAA to make a high-quality version of that design. I don't think anybody's made a four-barrel double-action .22 for a long time.

TwoGunJayne · February-27-13 09:02

Oh yeah! I forgot about the Brownie! I'd absolutely love one by NAA. I'll take one of those too!

Sort of like a rimfire version of that .357 "COP" 4-barrel "derringer." Probably a lot less wrist-breaking, too.

cedarview kid · February-27-13 10:02

Maybe a 4-barreled NAA could be the Guardian .22 we've been looking for.

TwoGunJayne · February-27-13 10:02

I've always wanted a new-production Sharps 4-barrel in stainless so I don't feel bad about shooting up history. I see them everywhere for $600, but wouldn't want to burn hundreds of rounds through one. Sort of a single-action brownie, that thing. There's just something about the way it looks, those clean lines...

cedarview kid · February-27-13 11:02

Doesn't the barrel assembly slide forward to load on the Sharps? I guess I didn't think about it being single action.

I like the trigger mechanism of the Brownie. Very cool design. It's similar to my Leinad Pocket Pal .22/380. It's cool to have a double-action striker-based firearm. That's just cool. (An additional "weird" feature of the Leinad Pock Pal revolver is that the gun locks up after the last round, like a slide-lock on an auto. Very interesting engineering. Very "outside of the box.")

I could go for a 4-barreled NAA in either the Sharps or the Brownie design.