After the Sidewinder where will the innovation lead

[G50AE]

Here are a few ideas I would like to see,
1- A remake of the HJS Frontier Four, pepperbox design.
2- A stocked single-action revolvers like Lee Van Cleaf used in "For a Few Dollars More", unfourtunately this would be an NFA item. 
3- A lever-action shotgun, no one seems to be making them.
4- A remake of the Webley-Fosbury automatic revolver, but in a comman chambering.

[TwoGunJayne]

The lever action shotgun is produced by Norinco for the Interstate Arms Corporation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1887/1901

A stocked single action as the Lee Van Cleef pistol is totally USA legal if and only if it is black powder.
http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=1267774
...but you can GET one! See?

Webley-fosbury? Wow, good luck. Those things would probably be $2-$3k if made today. The real deal antiques are high as the sky. Why not just hunt a recent production Mateba auto-revolver instead?

Sharps pepperbox (HJS frontier four?)?
http://casguns.homestead.com/Sharps_Pepperbox.html
It was repopped in Asian stainless for a bit, but NOBODY IS SELLING THEIRS. THEY BASICALLY DO NOT EXIST!!! NAA SHOULD MAKE THREE AND GIVE ME TWO, ONE IN .32 ACP.

[G50AE]

Thanks for the info.

[tocsn40]

Just reading the above post.  I you put a butt stock on a pistel it is not ok but if you put a butt stock on the same type of pistel  but ib black powder would it be ok?   

I would love to have say 6 in hog leg wit a butt stock but been told need a tax stamp. I its black powder does it still need a tax stamp?   

[bigwheel]

Welll...sure some was going to vote for number 2 till it looked like unfeasible..then it could tend to make a person look at #3 which then brings us back to the logistics of a lever action shotgun? Even though they made a few back in the good old days do not make it a good plan Now its ok for single shots. Seems to recall the repeating models was a favorite of prison guards.. or maybe that just a rumor. Dirty screws.

[TwoGunJayne]

Just reading the above post.  I you put a butt stock on a pistel it is not ok but if you put a butt stock on the same type of pistel  but ib black powder would it be ok?   

I would love to have say 6 in hog leg wit a butt stock but been told need a tax stamp. I its black powder does it still need a tax stamp?

It would be papers and $200 to do it to a cartridge hogleg. It would be the cost of parts to do it to a cap and ball black powder 4" Earl. Does it make you want one in 6"?

ATF does not regulate non-cartridge black powder stuff, it's sort of "not their job." Put the black powder in a cartridge casing? Then, yeah, they get a bit picky about that.

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=1267774

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda-accessorio.asp/l_en/idpr_407/pre_0/accessories-professional-accessories-shoulder-stock-for-the-howdah-hunter-pistol.html
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_29/pistols-howdah-hunter.html

[Uncle_Lee]

"ATF does not regulate non-cartridge black powder stuff, it's sort of "not their job"

Yet, they don't.

But each state has different laws about black powder arms.
Know the laws of your state, the state to which you are going, and the states you may be passing through.

I would be careful if selling a black powder revolver now. I wouldn't know where not to send it.

[Kentucky Kevin]

. That is where the holster grips..aka floppy wobblers or other extended grips should contribute to an overall good outcome. Aint had a chance to shoot mine with the new holster grips yet (that coincided with Obie taking our bullets so cant afford to waste any ammo on experimental stuff) but I know it will be a big improvement just from looking. I do not believe in shooting for pleasure so I dont use up a lot of ammo.

I've changed since ya'll told me there was a shortage, I lookedand there was. I go with a plan, and mostly stick to it. When I was burning ammo 3-5 times a week, my floppy wobblers allowed me to hit shotgun shells at 10-15 feet at 75%, and that was with the stubby barrels. I now carry the 1 5/8, but am only at playing card at 10-12.Perfect practice makes perfect

[Kentucky Kevin]

I found this place trying to find intellogent conversations about NAA. Got tired of stupid (uneducated) people say you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn

[bigwheel]

Hey Hardtack thanks for the report on the improvement in accuracy. Nearly knew that little gun could hit stuff better if a person could see the sights..lol.

[G50AE]

I found this place trying to find intellogent conversations about NAA. Got tired of stupid (uneducated) people say you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn

There are no stupid questions, only stupid people.

I think that sums it up.

[MR_22]

I found this place trying to find intellogent conversations about NAA. Got tired of stupid (uneducated) people say you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn

I'm surprised how accurate a Black WIdow or Minimaster really are. Very fun guns to be plinking with. Not what many would expect from a mini-revolver.

[G50AE]

I'm surprised how accurate a Black WIdow or Minimaster really are. Very fun guns to be plinking with. Not what many would expect from a mini-revolver.

1-A gun used for self defense could very well save your life.
2-An armed people is a free people.
3-Shooting guns is a lot of fun.

There you have it, the reason we own guns is for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. 

[I]

A double action break top, The Lancaster. Neat-looking piece of history! It appears to be double action, as well.

Added bonus: Double action!

[bigwheel]

Very cute. Think they used those in old pirate movies. Looks like the one the kid on Treasure Island used to blow the evil pegged legged guy off the mizzenmast anyway.

[Ahlywog]

I'm going to stick with my previous suggestion:  a Mateba/Rhino styled revolver.  I think that would be awesome, especially if they can do it while maintaining the more online style of their present revolvers.

Also, what happened to their .17 HMR stuff?  I saw a BW in .17 on gunbroker the other day.  I want one!   .17 in mini-master would be amazing.

I was under the impression that necked cartridges generally had a bad track record in revolvers.  To much trouble with expanding brass interfering wih the action.   I guess .17 hmr does have the pressures to worry about it? 

[heyjoe]

I'm surprised how accurate a Black WIdow or Minimaster really are. Very fun guns to be plinking with. Not what many would expect from a mini-revolver.

1-A gun used for self defense could very well save your life.
2-An armed people is a free people.
3-Shooting guns is a lot of fun.

There you have it, the reason we own guns is for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. 

excellant!

[G50AE]

Yeah, fundamentally one of the core reasons to own guns is a reason that Sara Brady and Chuck Schumer can't stand.  Having fun, the pursuit of happiness, is something that can resonate with non-gunowners when they are exposed to it.  Shooting guns is fun.  Hitting that soda can full of water with a .22 is fun.  Having fun is an important part of the second amendment and the freedom it guarenties.

[Uncle_Lee]

.32 acp mini.................

[MR_22]

So, Uncle Lee, have you ever thought about a .32ACP mini? Just wondering.

[.54Cal_Kidd]

I'm getting the impression Uncle_Lee would maybe like a .32 acp.

[bigwheel]

The only good thing I ever heard about .32 ACP was the W. German Polizi seemed to be able to poleece an entire country with it for 50 years or so. Thats purty good credentials for a round i think. Now my Grandpa had a Browning in that caliber and carried it faithfully in his inside suit coat pocket..half pint Old Crow in the other pocket. He shook hands with JFK on the steps of the Airplane in Whiskey Falls, TX with it in position. He was there to help Kennedy if anybody started any trouble. Very illustrious heritage on that one. I think Uncle deserves one.

[OV-1D]

  How about a nice little double action complete with loading gate ,folding trigger and push rod . I just acquired this piece the other day tight as a drum with the action , more than I would have liked to pay but it's definitely a keeper . Shoots shorts very well . Now if they could make this piece back in 1896 they could certainly do it today in long rifle or mag . Really a beautiful piece for it's size .

[Kentucky Kevin]

That's what she said

[Uncle_Lee]

.32 acp mini.
I don't want one.
I want a pair of them.

I know now that it will never happen since the 9.5" barreled 1960 didn't happen and we had 10 of them sold.
All that had to be done was to put a longer barrel on them.

Think of all the work it would take to put a .32 acp mini out here.

Like the insurance commerical where the old dude with the fishing rod is trying to get this girl to take a dollar.
"Oh, you almost had it."

[grayelky]

ahlywog-
NAA discontinued their 17 caliber guns for the same reason everyone eventually does: Case set back at firing jams the cylinder. Typically in a revolver, the case expands sideways, sealing the cylinder walls. With a bottleneck case, the angled portion seems to push the case back wards at firing, creating too much pressure/friction against the rear frame of the revolver. This usually causes the cylinder to not turn. Straight walled cases don't have this problem. Typically, revolvers have much more powerful cartridges than auto pistols, so that is not the problem. To have a semi-auto to handle the pressure of the .44 Mag cartridge, you have to have a rotating bolt such as the Desert Eagle. This makes for a very heavy pistol.

Keep an eye on gunbroker.com and on the "For Sale" section of this forum. One pops up every once in a while.

Yeah, fundamentally one of the core reasons to own guns is a reason that Sara Brady and Chuck Schumer can't stand.  Having fun, the pursuit of happiness, is something that can resonate with non-gunowners when they are exposed to it.  Shooting guns is fun.  Hitting that soda can full of water with a .22 is fun.  Having fun is an important part of the second amendment and the freedom it guarenties.

I agree hitting cans full of water is a lot of fun. I cannot totally agree about your outlook concerning the 2nd amendment. It speaks to the right to keep and bear arms, and the reason: To keep men free. It is this freedom that allows us to choose how we spend our leisure time. The right to bear arms has nothing to do with how long the shirt sleeve is (. The Second Amendment is telling everyone if you want to continue to be free men, keep your gun handy, and, if needed, bear, or carry/use your firearms to repress the government to keep your freedom. Do you think an otherwise responsible adult has the good sense to know whether or not to buckle a seat belt? The federal government does not think so. That is why the feds will with hold federal highway taxes from any state that does not make seatbelt usage mandatory. Do you think you have the good sense to know when you have consumed too much soft drink? The Mayor of New York City does not think so. Why else would he pass a city ordinance limiting the size of the cup you buy it in to 16 oz? Oddly enough, the Fienstiens and Obamas of our world want to limit our magazine capacity for the same reason a young man wants to hold hands with a young woman: What he really wants to hold is not her hand, but, it will get him started to where he really wants to be. They don't want to limit magazine capacity, but it is a step to what they really want. Our bearing of arms will stop not only the politicians, but that young man also....

[Kentucky Kevin]

If they both have guns, they can start, I'll show you mine if you  show me yours, much easier

[OV-1D]

.32 acp mini.
I don't want one.
I want a pair of them.

I know now that it will never happen since the 9.5" barreled 1960 didn't happen and we had 10 of them sold.
All that had to be done was to put a longer barrel on them.

Think of all the work it would take to put a .32 acp mini out here.

Like the insurance commerical where the old dude with the fishing rod is trying to get this girl to take a dollar.
"Oh, you almost had it."

Good commercial if there is one HaHaHa .

[Ahlywog]

ahlywog-
NAA discontinued their 17 caliber guns for the same reason everyone eventually does: Case set back at firing jams the cylinder. Typically in a revolver, the case expands sideways, sealing the cylinder walls. With a bottleneck case, the angled portion seems to push the case back wards at firing, creating too much pressure/friction against the rear frame of the revolver. This usually causes the cylinder to not turn. Straight walled cases don't have this problem. Typically, revolvers have much more powerful cartridges than auto pistols, so that is not the problem. To have a semi-auto to handle the pressure of the .44 Mag cartridge, you have to have a rotating bolt such as the Desert Eagle. This makes for a very heavy pistol.
[\quote]
I knew about the problems with necked cartridges and revolvers, that's why I was amazed NAA had one out.  I was hoping maybe they had figured something out or the .17 didn't have the power to cause the casing problems.

I would LOVE to see a revolver in 5.7 if they could figure out the casing problem, but it is what it is.

How did NAA's .17 variants perform?  It couldn't have been THAT bad if they made it into production.  Or is this the bastard child we don't talk about?

[Ahlywog]

^^^^^ is what I get for posting from my iPhone...

[grayelky]

Like so many others, some of the NAA guns worked OK, but the majority did not. That is why they were discontinued. Making a .17HMR or 17 Mach II is simply a matter of changing the chamber reamer and the barrel. Everything else is just like the .22 counter part. I have a BW in 17 HMR. It had never been fired when it was traded to me, and I have not taken it upon myself to fire it. I personally think it may make a great varmint cartridge, but I don't like the concept of a 17 grain bullet for self defense.

I have fired an FN 5-7. It is easy to shoot, but if the ballistics are compared to a 22 mag, I don't think it is worth the extra expense.

[boone123]

Ahlywog..
I had 2 Black Widows in 17 HMR. One worked fine except it keyholed. The other locked up the cylinder  after the second shot from shell casing setback. I sent them in for repair and they were replaced with 2 Black Widows with both cylinders. I wish  I had recrowned the one that keyholed before I sent it back.
I still have a new in the box Mini Master in 17 HMR that I have not shot. I am sorta on hold there. I have learned a couple of things on what might fix it if it has any problems. Who knows? That right day might just pop up, and I will give it a shot..

[Ahlywog]

Ruger made a Single Six in .17 HMR and it got fairly good reviews.  The only complaint I see from anyone is a perceived underwhelming performance of what people consider a rifle round through a revolver and the price of the round.  I can't find anyone saying anything about casing expansions causing the action to lock up.  But then again they only made then Single Sin in .17 HMR for a year then just went back to the .22.  So who knows. 

O-well.

[Kentucky Kevin]

I like the idea of an easily concealed precision tool for PEST elimination and am going to start working my MM at  25yds. And rework my floppy wobblers at 10-15 feet, last time at the range on playing cards my overall fast shooting was 90%, but my left hand only was 20%

[TwoGunJayne]

I've done some pest control with some NAAs. They're really good for that. If there were a government service that had a job called "pest control," I'd consider issuing NAA pistols and cheap single shot bolt action .22 lr suppressed rifles with the can basically welded on to the barrel.