Aww Man! Some Ranger II Saddness...

OMCHamlin · February-20-20 23:02

Went to admin download my Ranger II, w/WMR Cyl full of Speer GDs, and after clearing, cocking the hammer, hammer no cockey-backey! At least about 90% of the time, the cylinder turns half way then skips, hammer is stiff as heck, hard to thumb back to full cock, "as in" you would not want to continue cocking this so as to preclude further damage to the action! The cylinder does not appear to be off axis, is fully seated and turns freely. (if I were reading this, those are the first questions I would ask, so...)

I'll call tomorrow, see what they say, I'm sure they can square it away in short order. I remember a mild issue with on eof their first .32 Guardians, they fell all over them selves making it right.

Uncle_Lee · February-21-20 05:02

Don't worry OMCH, NAA will fix it for you.
They are the greatest.

RogueTS1 · February-21-20 10:02

Sounds to me as if the timing is off.

NAA will fix the problem promptly.

Ruger · February-21-20 10:02

Hey . . OMCH . . . WELCOME to the Forum! Glad to have you. Please continue to share what happens in this saga.

kevdonahue · February-25-20 16:02

I'm seeing a pattern here - and it's not just me. I purchased 3 NAA mini revolvers last year: A Ranger II, an Earl 3", and a Ranger II 2.5". All three had serious defects right out of the box that any rudimentary quality check should have caught, and all were returned to NAA for warranty work before even taking them to the range. And then each was returned again, and the Ranger II 2.5" was sent back a third time. Having worked in manufacturing, this was disappointing, and indicated to me a systematic problem in production / QA. After the third trip back on my Ranger II 2.5", there were still several of the reported problems which remained unfixed, and I'm taking care of some items myself. My 3 older Minis were perfect right out of the box - so I wonder what's happening on the production line these days.

OV-1D · February-25-20 18:02

Simple complacency is the problem these days and its everywhere . Great quality control is rare look at the automotive industry even in the quest for space it has its days . Shame on those who don't really care anymore .

PaducahMichael · February-25-20 18:02

There is no doubt that NAA's customer service is excellent. It's been proved time and time again.

I admire that - I truly do.

BUT wouldn't it be wonderful if none of us knew how great CS is?

The most impressive reputation they could have is that 99.9% of the firearms are just right, right out of the box.

Just thinking "out loud".

Bigbird48 · February-26-20 00:02

Make me wonder if I buy another mini will I have to send it back 3 or 4 times to get it right. With the problems I been hearing I'm not buying one now.

redhawk4 · February-26-20 07:02

With guns being fairly simple mechanical devices in the overall scheme of modern manufacturing, it does amaze me how often problems are brought to the market place by manufacturers. Fortunately most firearms I've bought have been flawless and continue to be so, however when you get one that isn't, not only is it frustrating as you first feel deflated after the much anticipated first firing of your new toy and then suffer being parted from it almost immediately, while it goes back to the maker for repairs, it's also hard to build up new trust in the firearm and fall in love with it again. With the tolerances that can be held on parts these days, over and over with modern machinery, I'm still baffled as to how so many of these problems occur, currently I understand Colt are having issues with the newly re-introduced Python which has to be very disheartening if you just splashed out twice what a good S&W costs to own one.

OMCHamlin · February-26-20 10:02

Well, it's on it's way back, should get there tomorrow afternoon. They sent me a FedEx label Monday. My other Minis have done fine, never an issue, hopefully this will get fixed right the first time and I can feel confidant in carrying it again. I wonder if the Ranger II is more complicated then a standard Mini and thus more prone to issues?
The Ranger is a neat little gun, but I am carrying my Pug, which I have borrowed back from the wife. I may just pick up another Pug and sell the Ranger. The Pug is just slightly easier to carry (I know, tiny difference, but I can tell)

Uncle_Lee · February-26-20 13:02

Quote from: redhawk4 on February-26-20 07:02
With guns being fairly simple mechanical devices in the overall scheme of modern manufacturing, it does amaze me how often problems are brought to the market place by manufacturers. Fortunately most firearms I've bought have been flawless and continue to be so, however when you get one that isn't, not only is it frustrating as you first feel deflated after the much anticipated first firing of your new toy and then suffer being parted from it almost immediately, while it goes back to the maker for repairs, it's also hard to build up new trust in the firearm and fall in love with it again. With the tolerances that can be held on parts these days, over and over with modern machinery, I'm still baffled as to how so many of these problems occur, currently I understand Colt are having issues with the newly re-introduced Python which has to be very disheartening if you just splashed out twice what a good S&W costs to own one.

I know the failed feeling.

Dinadan · February-26-20 17:02

Quote from: redhawk4 on February-26-20 07:02
snip
most firearms I've bought have been flawless and continue to be so, however when you get one that isn't, not only is it frustrating as you first feel deflated after the much anticipated first firing of your new toy and then suffer being parted from it almost immediately, while it goes back to the maker for repairs, it's also hard to build up new trust in the firearm and fall in love with it again.
snip

That pretty well summarizes how I feel about defective guns, or any other device for that matter. If my first NAA had needed to go back to the factory, I am certain that it would have been my last NAA. When a long anticipated acquisition proves defective, I just cannot recapture the initial enthusiasm after a trip to the repair shop.

Based on what I have read on this forum it seems to me that the Ranger (both versions) and to a lesser extent, the Sidewinder, have been the most common culprits in this story. Pretty much all of us here wanted NAA to make the Ranger, but maybe that was asking too much.

Bigbird48 · February-26-20 19:02

Quote from: redhawk4 on February-26-20 07:02
With guns being fairly simple mechanical devices in the overall scheme of modern manufacturing, it does amaze me how often problems are brought to the market place by manufacturers. Fortunately most firearms I've bought have been flawless and continue to be so, however when you get one that isn't, not only is it frustrating as you first feel deflated after the much anticipated first firing of your new toy and then suffer being parted from it almost immediately, while it goes back to the maker for repairs, it's also hard to build up new trust in the firearm and fall in love with it again. With the tolerances that can be held on parts these days, over and over with modern machinery, I'm still baffled as to how so many of these problems occur, currently I understand Colt are having issues with the newly re-introduced Python which has to be very disheartening if you just splashed out twice what a good S&W costs to own one.

I know the feeling , I was so excited like so many of us to be the first kids on the block to get a Ranger ll, and then having to send it back 3 times to get it right and to be honest I'm still not sure its right, fired it a few times and put it in the safe never to see daylight again.I'm really bummed out about that gun.

Canoeal · February-26-20 21:02

There is a good lesson to be learned here...The clamoring for new guns, better and different designs. is the the problem, and one seemingly, not learned here. The original NAAs were simple, well thought out designs. But they were simple. The Ranger1 did not come off as a major success, it was to expensive to make that complicated of a mini. The two models that seem to have the most problems are the ones that have much more complicated designs. Maybe mini designs, worked better as simple guns. The two I purchased are not far from the original designs. Sure the pins are different on the Black Widow, as are the sights, but not much internally. The Wasp is a dressed up, Magnum otherwise the same.
I chose what I did to keep things simple. I am not a gunsmith, but I can see that the more complicated these designs get, the more delicate they are going to be. I wanted simple and reliable, and so far that is what I bought. I am also on a budget so $500 for a mini for me puts them out of reach. Maybe it is time to rethink your expectations...JMHO

heyjoe · February-26-20 23:02

Quote from: Canoeal on February-26-20 21:02
There is a good lesson to be learned here...The clamoring for new guns, better and different designs. is the the problem, and one seemingly, not learned here. The original NAAs were simple, well thought out designs. But they were simple. The Ranger1 did not come off as a major success, it was to expensive to make that complicated of a mini. The two models that seem to have the most problems are the ones that have much more complicated designs. Maybe mini designs, worked better as simple guns. The two I purchased are not far from the original designs. Sure the pins are different on the Black Widow, as are the sights, but not much internally. The Wasp is a dressed up, Magnum otherwise the same.
I chose what I did to keep things simple. I am not a gunsmith, but I can see that the more complicated these designs get, the more delicate they are going to be. I wanted simple and reliable, and so far that is what I bought. I am also on a budget so $500 for a mini for me puts them out of reach. Maybe it is time to rethink your expectations...JMHO

you keep saying this over and over and over again for years. Are you saying Sandy is a simpleton who has no business sense and just caters to what anyone on here thinks up? He is a business man who is trying to supply customers with what they want to buy. He wants to sell guns......that is what he does....if there is a demand he tries to fill it if he can do it profitably. People on this forum asking for something does not force him to do it. Its his decision. It's up to him to figure out if it is feasible and profitable. Innovation is a must in the gun business. You have to keep people engaged with various models, innovations. Offering the same basic model for decades is not a viable long term business model. Our most successful holster maker to date on this site is constantly experimenting, innovating, trying new things, trying to learn always. He doesnt just sit on his laurels, offer one model and you can just get a gun to fit it.

you wanted simple, and dont have the money to buy a $500 gun. there are many customers who like variety, simple....complex....long barrels, short barrels....mammoth ivory.....there are customers who have the money to buy $3,000 handguns, some of whom are on this forum. So because you cant afford $500...no one else should be able to buy one? there is nothing stopping you from buying the basic models, but dont be bitter because others want more or can afford more.

Uncle_Lee · February-27-20 04:02

Oh oh.

Ruger · February-27-20 05:02

Hey . . . a shout out to KEV . . . WELCOME to the Forum!! Maybe you have been welcomed in other threads, but at my age, I forget most of what I've read from one thread to another. But great to have you!! bring along your range reports, smithing adventures, opinions, and tall stories. And for gosh sakes, don't forget your pictures, because if you do, well, I'll just leave it at that.

glenn · February-27-20 06:02

Quote from: heyjoe on February-26-20 23:02
Quote from: Canoeal on February-26-20 21:02
There is a good lesson to be learned here...The clamoring for new guns, better and different designs. is the the problem, and one seemingly, not learned here. The original NAAs were simple, well thought out designs. But they were simple. The Ranger1 did not come off as a major success, it was to expensive to make that complicated of a mini. The two models that seem to have the most problems are the ones that have much more complicated designs. Maybe mini designs, worked better as simple guns. The two I purchased are not far from the original designs. Sure the pins are different on the Black Widow, as are the sights, but not much internally. The Wasp is a dressed up, Magnum otherwise the same.
I chose what I did to keep things simple. I am not a gunsmith, but I can see that the more complicated these designs get, the more delicate they are going to be. I wanted simple and reliable, and so far that is what I bought. I am also on a budget so $500 for a mini for me puts them out of reach. Maybe it is time to rethink your expectations...JMHO

you keep saying this over and over and over again for years. Are you saying Sandy is a simpleton who has no business sense and just caters to what anyone on here thinks up? He is a business man who is trying to supply customers with what they want to buy. He wants to sell guns......that is what he does....if there is a demand he tries to fill it if he can do it profitably. People on this forum asking for something does not force him to do it. Its his decision. It's up to him to figure out if it is feasible and profitable. Innovation is a must in the gun business. You have to keep people engaged with various models, innovations. Offering the same basic model for decades is not a viable long term business model. Our most successful holster maker to date on this site is constantly experimenting, innovating, trying new things, trying to learn always. He doesnt just sit on his laurels, offer one model and you can just get a gun to fit it.

you wanted simple, and dont have the money to buy a $500 gun. there are many customers who like variety, simple....complex....long barrels, short barrels....mammoth ivory.....there are customers who have the money to buy $3,000 handguns, some of whom are on this forum. So because you cant afford $500...no one else should be able to buy one? there is nothing stopping you from buying the basic models, but dont be bitter because others want more or can afford more.

Wonder how he feels about fancy, complicated, too expensive to make, canoes ?
I think I'll stick with a simple, economic, aluminum or plastic one.
Hmmm .... what if everyone else did too

.

Gog · February-27-20 06:02

Quote from: uncle_lee on February-27-20 04:02
Oh oh.

Lol, oh yeah! Hold on...

Bigbird48 · February-27-20 07:02

HeyJoe we need a Like Button

heyjoe · February-27-20 09:02

Quote from: glenn on February-27-20 06:02
Quote from: heyjoe on February-26-20 23:02
Quote from: Canoeal on February-26-20 21:02
There is a good lesson to be learned here...The clamoring for new guns, better and different designs. is the the problem, and one seemingly, not learned here. The original NAAs were simple, well thought out designs. But they were simple. The Ranger1 did not come off as a major success, it was to expensive to make that complicated of a mini. The two models that seem to have the most problems are the ones that have much more complicated designs. Maybe mini designs, worked better as simple guns. The two I purchased are not far from the original designs. Sure the pins are different on the Black Widow, as are the sights, but not much internally. The Wasp is a dressed up, Magnum otherwise the same.
I chose what I did to keep things simple. I am not a gunsmith, but I can see that the more complicated these designs get, the more delicate they are going to be. I wanted simple and reliable, and so far that is what I bought. I am also on a budget so $500 for a mini for me puts them out of reach. Maybe it is time to rethink your expectations...JMHO

you keep saying this over and over and over again for years. Are you saying Sandy is a simpleton who has no business sense and just caters to what anyone on here thinks up? He is a business man who is trying to supply customers with what they want to buy. He wants to sell guns......that is what he does....if there is a demand he tries to fill it if he can do it profitably. People on this forum asking for something does not force him to do it. Its his decision. It's up to him to figure out if it is feasible and profitable. Innovation is a must in the gun business. You have to keep people engaged with various models, innovations. Offering the same basic model for decades is not a viable long term business model. Our most successful holster maker to date on this site is constantly experimenting, innovating, trying new things, trying to learn always. He doesnt just sit on his laurels, offer one model and you can just get a gun to fit it.

you wanted simple, and dont have the money to buy a $500 gun. there are many customers who like variety, simple....complex....long barrels, short barrels....mammoth ivory.....there are customers who have the money to buy $3,000 handguns, some of whom are on this forum. So because you cant afford $500...no one else should be able to buy one? there is nothing stopping you from buying the basic models, but dont be bitter because others want more or can afford more.

Wonder how he feels about fancy, complicated, too expensive to make, canoes ?
I think I'll stick with a simple, economic, aluminum or plastic one.
Hmmm .... what if everyone else did too

.

the thought did enter my mind

Canoeal · February-27-20 09:02

Ok mine, like Sandy's, is a specialized market. And yes there are tons of people who buy plastic. Not so much Aluminum any more; That is why Grumman was sold to the employees.

No, Sandy and the company at NAA are no dummies. and yes they do want to sell more guns. I think he does a great job at pushing the limits of the minis. I just think to expect perfection out of a more complicated gun with more moving parts, is unrealistic on the part of the owners, nothing more. That NAA can and does make them right, is all you can ask. JMO

The original breaktop was a limited edition, mostly aimed at collectors. As a collectible, they had a pretty good run until the RII came out. I doubt many of those were ever used as an EDC. Turning that gun into an EDC gun has a whole lot of challenges...

I don't try to build 13" tiny boats for 300 lb guys either. There are limits to everything. It is called physics, or the physical properties of materials.

BTW I said I want simple and reliable, not just simple...

I was just making some observations not telling anyone what to do/buy. As a guy with a degree in history that is what I do. There is a reason Smith, Ruger, and companies aren't making breaktops as their standard revolvers...Just voicing my thoughts , take it easy guys.

bearcatter · February-27-20 10:02

I'm impressed by NAA's dedication to their ideal of making the very best carry guns. They make an average of 40-50 thousand minis a year. Not chicken feed, but small compared to the big gun companies making hundreds of thousands.

The Guardians are more impressive, where yearly production has averaged around 6 hundred per year over the last ten years. In 2015, they only made 324. What other company would continue producing a product that only sold so few, at a reasonable price?

heyjoe · February-27-20 11:02

Quote from: Canoeal on February-27-20 09:02
Ok mine, like Sandy's, is a specialized market. And yes there are tons of people who buy plastic. Not so much Aluminum any more; That is why Grumman was sold to the employees.

No, Sandy and the company at NAA are no dummies. and yes they do want to sell more guns. I think he does a great job at pushing the limits of the minis. I just think to expect perfection out of a more complicated gun with more moving parts, is unrealistic on the part of the owners, nothing more. That NAA can and does make them right, is all you can ask. JMO

The original breaktop was a limited edition, mostly aimed at collectors. As a collectible, they had a pretty good run until the RII came out. I doubt many of those were ever used as an EDC. Turning that gun into an EDC gun has a whole lot of challenges...

I don't try to build 13" tiny boats for 300 lb guys either. There are limits to everything. It is called physics, or the physical properties of materials.

BTW I said I want simple and reliable, not just simple...

I was just making some observations not telling anyone what to do/buy. As a guy with a degree in history that is what I do. There is a reason Smith, Ruger, and companies aren't making breaktops as their standard revolvers...Just voicing my thoughts , take it easy guys.

again you are wrong.....the Ranger 1 was developed to be a regular production gun not a limited edition collectible. it turned out that the supplier couldnt supply parts for the price NAA needed to be profitable or for there to be enough demand. For that reason it never became a regular production gun. i have carried one of my original rangers. i now carry the ranger 2 everyday.

its ok for you to prefer the original design, as many people do.....but its also ok for people to make suggestions for things they would like to see made. no one is able to force Sandy to do either.....im pretty sure he doesnt bow to pressure from people posting on this forum.

Dinadan · February-27-20 14:02

Quote from: heyjoe on February-27-20 11:02
its ok for you to prefer the original design, as many people do.....but its also ok for people to make suggestions for things they would like to see made.

Exactly my thought, Joe. I enjoy the back and forth discussion on the forum, even though many of the topics of discussion are things that we have beaten to death several times since my arrival. Lots of us have voiced ideas for changes to the Minis, but I have not noted that NAA took much note of that.

Some folks want to make a pronouncement of the Truth, and the rest of us are supposed to just accept it without discussion. That is contrary to the whole point of a forum like this, at least in my opinion.

Canoeal · February-27-20 14:02

Sorry guys I surrender...Don't shoot...

Uncle_Lee · February-28-20 05:02

Off with his head !!!!!!

Meggadeath · March-07-20 12:03

I don't know, Sedgley was able to make the "baby hammerless" fairly reliable about 100 years ago! I had one, and it worked flawlessly!

Canoeal · March-07-20 15:03

Quote from: Meggadeath on March-07-20 12:03
I don't know, Sedgley was able to make the "baby hammerless" fairly reliable about 100 years ago! I had one, and it worked flawlessly!

on 100 YO pressures, not the same as 22 mag...

OMCHamlin · March-10-20 06:03

Hmm, well, anyway, it's back, test fired: Sat, no failures, checked LR & WMR cylinders, all good. Trigger pull still SUCKS! (Yes, I DID politely suggest that they check that over as well, since they had it on the bench, but no-go I guess...)

Wumbey Goomba · March-10-20 14:03

I'm no expert, that said.
I think there is no way to adjust, trigger pull
in a mini. Wear is the adjustment, it will get
better with use. Then when it gets to the point
you like, you'll experience occasional light strikes
(no boom), to eventually frequent light strikes or
spring breaks all together. Then it starts all over.
At least it will get better for a while.
All they can do is replace it. Maybe there are some new
springs that aren't quite as stiff.If you get one it's luck
of the draw.

Dinadan · March-10-20 16:03

Quote from: OMCHamlin on March-10-20 06:03
Hmm, well, anyway, it's back, test fired: Sat, no failures, checked LR & WMR cylinders, all good. Trigger pull still SUCKS! (Yes, I DID politely suggest that they check that over as well, since they had it on the bench, but no-go I guess...)

Well, at least it shoots now! Hammer pull and trigger pull on the Minis can be a bit tough. I think that the very small width of the trigger and hammer make the pull seem harder than if NAA made the trigger and hammer wider.

OMCHamlin · March-11-20 03:03

No, I've had a few minis, believe me, this Ranger II has a stiff pull, head & shoulders above my other ones even when they were at their "newest and stiffest"! I do believe also, that wear use will whittle it down some, and smooth it out.
Now, on to my next problem; Mrs. OMC has basically (but totally) commandeered my Tritium Pug AND my Stag gripped Short! I feel I can allow this to stand, if I force her surrender of her Black Widow w/"Laser" (wish I had the little smiley for that) , complete with LR cylinder and fancy pocket holster by guy from eBay "Abbsoroka Kid" or something like that? If I get that, it's going to be sold/traded for some other shorter and lighter NAA 22WMR Mini. One of the earliest I had was an Ellett Bros Exclusive, a 1&1/8" WMR with a tritium front sight dovetailed into the rib. So light...
Here's another thought: Has anyone successfully shortened a Black Widow down to it's shortest length (with cylinder rod intact and full length) and stuck a sight on it?

Canoeal · March-11-20 14:03

"Has anyone successfully shortened a Black Widow down to it's shortest length (with cylinder rod intact and full length) and stuck a sight on it?"

Yeah, it is called a Pug...

flash · March-12-20 17:03

First
Attempt
In
Learning

I for one am glad NAA is willing to try new designs, like the saying goes you must be willing to fail. But it is a balancing act for sure. Not to sound like a fanboy but I have some faith in NAA to properly balance pride in making a good product with profit motive. Unlike certain other businesses I could name.

I would be a lot less excited about NAA stuff if they did not stand behind their products... but they do. FWIW I have only sent guns in twice now and both times NAA was great.

Hope the OP's Ranger II works out. I would love to try one myself.