True Black widow

RogueTS1 · February-21-20 10:02

Quote from: Canoeal on February-20-20 22:02
RougeTS1- Thanks for being open minded.

Just being honest. I pocket carry all the time. I usually have another on my belt but not all the time. Sometimes I have another in my carry bag along with a tad bit of reloads and other stuff. While pocket carry may be a tad slower I would bet that with a good holster it "can" be faster than some folks can draw from their belts. Besides not all encounters, in fact in my opinion most encounters, are not going to be quick draw scenarios. I believe if one keeps their attention on their surroundings they will most likely see it coming and be able to prepare themselves for it; even out of a pocket.

PS: give me your wallet......... much harder to draw from a holster than reaching to one's back pocket "supposedly for your wallet" and coming out with a Mini.

I could go on ad nauseam .................. different strokes for different folks and different scenarios/situations.

Canoeal · February-21-20 14:02

Don't worry guys. We ain't going anywhere. Jean's 95 yo dad is in a assisted care community, about an hour from here, her brother lives here too. My brother is about an hour away. Business is here. I do fight the fight here. After 30 years in the same spot, ties are hard to break.

Bigbird48 · February-21-20 14:02

Hey Joe
Arizona
This one flies under the radar a bit, but it should be thought of as one of the best states to bear arms. We're guessing residents like it that way, but Arizona has carry laws that greatly favor the gun owner. This is another permitless state where anyone 21 and older can carry concealed.

Arizona has both Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground laws; the list of places you can't carry is again short. Included on this list are obvious ones like polling places or correctional facilities.

This is another great place for the hunting enthusiast, as Arizona is an underrated deer and elk hunting state.This state has a gun culture that is deeply embedded in everyday life and it's likely not going to change anytime soon, despite nearby May Issue states like California. It's a prime retirement spot for gun enthusiasts who might not want to deal with the cold of a northern state anymore.

OV-1D · February-21-20 16:02

How about trout, bass ,all other fresh water fishing BigBird ?

heyjoe · February-21-20 17:02

Quote from: Bigbird48 on February-21-20 14:02
Hey Joe
Arizona
This one flies under the radar a bit, but it should be thought of as one of the best states to bear arms. We're guessing residents like it that way, but Arizona has carry laws that greatly favor the gun owner. This is another permitless state where anyone 21 and older can carry concealed.

Arizona has both Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground laws; the list of places you can't carry is again short. Included on this list are obvious ones like polling places or correctional facilities.

This is another great place for the hunting enthusiast, as Arizona is an underrated deer and elk hunting state.This state has a gun culture that is deeply embedded in everyday life and it's likely not going to change anytime soon, despite nearby May Issue states like California. It's a prime retirement spot for gun enthusiasts who might not want to deal with the cold of a northern state anymore.

thats what virginia, washington, and your neighbors colorado and new mexico thought.

heyjoe · February-21-20 17:02

Quote from: RogueTS1 on February-21-20 10:02
Quote from: Canoeal on February-20-20 22:02
RougeTS1- Thanks for being open minded.

Just being honest. I pocket carry all the time. I usually have another on my belt but not all the time. Sometimes I have another in my carry bag along with a tad bit of reloads and other stuff. While pocket carry may be a tad slower I would bet that with a good holster it "can" be faster than some folks can draw from their belts. Besides not all encounters, in fact in my opinion most encounters, are not going to be quick draw scenarios. I believe if one keeps their attention on their surroundings they will most likely see it coming and be able to prepare themselves for it; even out of a pocket.

PS: give me your wallet......... much harder to draw from a holster than reaching to one's back pocket "supposedly for your wallet" and coming out with a Mini.

I could go on ad nauseam .................. different strokes for different folks and different scenarios/situations.

i disagree with you, most encounters will be surprise, quick draw situations. i believe you that you are more self aware than most people walking around. ive been carrying a ranger 2 in the right front pocket for a while now, just for the reason you gave about reaching into your pocket when your wallet is "requested".To me thats a good backup plan in case someone evades the radar.

Bigbird48 · February-21-20 19:02

Quote from: OV-1D on February-21-20 16:02
How about trout, bass ,all other fresh water fishing BigBird ?

Oh absolutely great fishing here in our rivers and lakes. Trout, Lg and Sm mouth bass, Crappie and cat fish to name a few .

Wumbey Goomba · February-21-20 20:02

I disagree with a lot.
Your best weapon is in between your ears. It will keep you out of most trouble
long before it happens. Provided you use it.

heyjoe · February-21-20 20:02

Quote from: Wumbey Goomba on February-21-20 20:02
I disagree with a lot. First:
Don't bust a guys chops because of how he carries.
The how doesn't matter, he carries is what matters.
It's a person preference, who am I to say it's wrong.
In your front pocket, rear pocket, purse, drawers,
hair(hairy carry), all that matters is it's on your person.
Some of you guys like to leave your purse laying around,
well don't, that ain't on your person.

Second: If someone says, give me your wallet(purse), that's
not justification to use lethal force. Better make sure you can
prove within reasonable doubt, you thought you were in serious
danger.(ie: gun involved) You can't shoot, threaten to shoot, somebody
saying give me your wallet. Even if they're big or mean looking.
Don't get me wrong, I'm on your side, just giving you something to think about.
When it's said and done you'll still be in the hot seat to justify your
actions. When the Law is called out, it's gonna be your word against his.
If he's able, witnesses if he's not.If it is called, and you showed, implied you had a firearm, you could be in
trouble too. A permit to carry isn't a permit to use. Legality of use usually is settled in a court.
I guess my long winded point is, don't use it unless your absolutely sure you have to.

Your best weapon is in between your ears. It will keep you out of most trouble
long before it happens. Provided you use it.

in the discussion we were having its assumed that the person trying to rob you is armed, ready and willing to use it. I dont think anyone here is that stupid

Wumbey Goomba · February-21-20 21:02

My bad Joe, I guess, I missed the assumed part.
Still what I wrote is food for thought.
I don't think anyone here stupid, but if they missed
what was implied like me. They could be misguided.

OV-1D · February-22-20 06:02

Wumbey I agree with your last statement about your best defense is between your ears but the rest aawww , I can't decide, all I can say is situation awareness will save you in the long run . Anybody up to no good probably 99% of the time have a rap sheet that will tell the truth , not to say some bogus lawyer won't make a civil case out of it that will drag on . Case in point that Travon - Travis whatever that black kids name WAS and that poor bastar* whats his name , I'm bad on names , that's going on forever back and forth . That case will probably become a mini series at its rate . Later

bearcatter · February-22-20 08:02

I don't see the problem drawing on someone who demands your wallet, even if he hasn't shown a weapon. That's not lethal force, and it's not brandishing, since you have reason. Actually pulling the trigger would change the situation. Just drawing gives him three options; give up, run, or produce a weapon. You've already got the drop on him, so option three is not likely. Most likely, if he had a weapon, he would have already shown it.

Bigbird48 · February-22-20 10:02

If you read the AZ stands your ground laws you are justified to threaten or use deadly force if you believe you are about to be harmed. Its funny that everything I read talks about its OK for burglary to threaten or use deadly force but I can't find any thing that specifically mentions robbery. I would think that falls under "if you believe your about to be harmed.

Wumbey Goomba · February-22-20 12:02

Ov, it's Travon Martin and George Zimmerman.

Lastly: Wumbey Goomba is in no way an advocate for stinky butt, low life's.
I'm Sorry if I come across as one. I just call it like I see it and it seems to
be stacked against the good people these days.

RogueTS1 · February-22-20 12:02

Quotemost encounters will be surprise, quick draw situations

Heyjoe; well ......... yes and no. I do tend to see things coming. I have had a couple I did not see it coming encounters but most have been seen coming. Now I get what you are saying and I agree most may not see it coming but I still do not classify them as "quick draw" scenarios. I like to think of them much more as "wait your turn" or "hasty ambush" scenarios.

In other words, one did not see it coming and the bad guy has the drop or advantage over you. Better plan of action is to "wait your turn" and when he is distracted, and they all are at one time or another for millions of different reasons, you take your turn and set up/put into action your "hasty ambush" in which you draw down on him with your own weapon when he is not paying attention.

Many videos out there that can show how these attacks happen and how the good guy can handle it coming out on top most of the time. You set the terms of when the gun play takes place. You make sure the advantages are with you and not with the baddy. Very few professional gunfighter baddies out there. They do not train in gunfighting. At best they learn it on their own and develop very bad habits when it comes to doing so.

RogueTS1 · February-22-20 13:02

QuoteIf someone says, give me your wallet(purse), that's
not justification to use lethal force.

Wumbey; that is not reason to use lethal force but in many free, stand your ground places, it is reason to escalate your force. Just because a baddy is not armed does not mean you have to get physical with him and I have always stated, if one knows how to think these things through and stay calm, it is rational to see said baddy either run away without your wallet/purse or lie dying on the ground bleeding from your gun shot wound or knife wound while the police are on their way.

When someone demands your wallet, unless it happens to be your spousal unit of course,

one in a stand your ground free area is free to use whatever force is necessary to defend themselves. "Give me your wallet!"

"No!"

"OK, time to kick your a$$ and take it then!"

and he comes at you. You push/pull him away ............. draw down on him and shoot him full of holes.

One is not required to find out the hard way the attacker has a weapon. It is not fire only after being fired upon. It is not "never shoot someone in the back." It is the use of reasonable force to stop the attacker. If he is still attacking you after you have tried to use your hands (pushing him away) then it is time to go to guns and put him down. One is not required to be knocked unconscious and hope the baddy does not slit your throat.

Now I understand there are some jurisdictions that do not support this idea but those would not be stand your ground areas. In those areas carrying a gun is all but useless in my opinion unless one is old and somewhat decrepit. It is all about how one describes what happened to the investigators. "He demanded my money. When I refused, he attacked me. I tried to push him away but he was too strong and would not stop. He kept attacking me. I was forced to shoot him to stop his attack."

bearcatter · February-22-20 13:02

Wumbey - If a guy has a dead battery, and is tired after asking 5-6 people for a jump, why would he want my wallet? My AAA card? If the need for a jump was just a ruse, he would have done that to the first person.

I'll risk not getting shot or stabbed over being overly cautious.

Bigbird48 · February-22-20 13:02

I think I saw someone say that didn't like the term "Situation awareness" To me this is your first and best defense to avoid a bad situation .
I always try to gas up during the daylight at a busy gas station. As I drive in I look around to see whats going on and if theres any shady characters around. I always take my keys with me and shut my car door as I gas up and I continuously look around as Im gassing up.Its amazing what you see. I see women standing next to their car, door wide open, car running, gas hose in the tank and their face jammed to the phone. They have no idea whats going on around them. Thats insane. I've been approched many times while pumping gas from people looking for a hand out, but I always see them coming and ward them off before they get to close and my hand is already on my hip. I'm turned sideways to them so they can't see my hand . So far I've never had a problem. Maybe I'm paranoid but hey I'm an easy target, I'm old and disabled , But when I pump gas or go into stores I stand tall and walk the best I can, Trying not to present myself as an easy target.So again Situation awareness is always a good idea.

grayelky · February-22-20 14:02

What most of you are overlooking is, it is not always "he said-It said". A decent detective can sit down with a witness/suspect/victim, and in just a fe minutes be able to know who, if anyone, is lying. And, there is always physical evidence, such as the Travon Martin and George Zimmerman incident. It would have been easy for a doctor to examine Zimmerman and determine his haed had come into contact with a solid, non-forgiving object. About that time, the detective(s) would have made arrangements to comb through his hair and/or have the doctor remove particles from the wound in his head. This would have backed up his version of the story.

As to the taking a statement thing, you will always have the right to consult an attorney before giving a statement to the police. My line will be, "I was in fear for my life, and I defended my self. I would like to speak with my attorney." The statement would be made AFTER the adrenaline has filtered itself out of your system, so you can think straight, and rationally, leaving most of the emotions elsewhere. Just a "food for thought" consideration: Never say you "shoot to kill". You do not. You are ACTUALLY shooting to stay alive. The difference? One you are the lead story on the 6 o'clock news, the other you are not on the air.

Canoeal · February-22-20 15:02

All this because I showed how I carry. The point I was trying to make, that for me, my gun and my all day working knife belong in different pockets...Not any new tactical crap...WOW.

LHB · February-22-20 22:02

Knowing that there are several active or retired LEOs on the board, I am going to say that some LEOs are out to make a rep. It's been a few years now, but two miles down the road, in an unincorporated area, a restaurant owner woke in his apartment to hear noises from his downstairs business. Taking his .40 S&W pistol along, he went down to find three individuals in his darkened restaurant. One individual turned toward the owner, and there was something shiny in his right hand, The owner fired one shot, which ended up killing the individual, and penetrated the body to wound a second individual. When the body was moved, partially under it was a very fancy shiny lock back knife. The three individuals were fourteen year old high school freshmen.

The owner later told me that the next day, two county deputies, one old, one young, went to work on him, with the young one being very aggressive. First point of contention, he didn't believe he had only fired one shot, since two were injured, what had he done with the rest of the brass. Neighbor lady across the road stopped that line when she said she only heard one shot. Then, why had he used a 40, had he wanted to kill the victim? After awhile on this line, the owner asked what caliber the deputy was carrying, which the older one said was a 40, which ended that line. Then it became why had he only fired one shot it that situation? The owner said he couldn't stop his mouth from replying that he could tell that the deputy had never fired his 40 inside a dark room without ear plugs, and the older deputy laughed, and told the younger one that he thought it was time they got out of there, and back to work.

Uncle_Lee · February-23-20 06:02

In Indiana, Stand Your Ground means just that.
To stop a felony, kill them. And, And you can not be sued.

However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat; if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
(d) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against any other person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat; if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
(e) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect.

Wumbey Goomba · February-23-20 09:02

Maybe it's just me, the wording makes it confusing.

Uncle_Lee · February-23-20 10:02

(2) does not have a duty to retreat; if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

Read this again.
"or the commission of a forcible felony."
It says nothing of in your dwelling, car, camper, etc.

You give examples of Florida.
I am referring to Indiana.
We have a broader law here.

Wumbey Goomba · February-23-20 11:02

.( smiley missing a tooth emoji

Bigbird48 · March-02-20 23:03

Can you shoot this idiot? This is why you always take your keys when you pump gas.

Police say the owner of the stolen car, a 2007 gray Kia Sorento, told officers he went into a convenience store as he was pumping gas near Interstate 17 and Camelback Road around 3 p.m. and left his 6-month-old son in the car. The suspect jumped into the man's car and drove away.

Canoeal · March-03-20 09:03

Here is one in the news, here now. Two guys get in a fight at a basketball game at a gym. Both are licensed carriers. Upon leaving the gym, an altercation happens and one guy is shot dead. No more information other than no charges have been filed. How is that working?
The only scenario, that seems to fit, is one guy pulled a gun, either shot and missed or just threatened, and the second guy shot him...with witnesses to the facts.