Taking my leave.........................

[sirbarkalot]

I have decided to take my leave from active participation on this forum and from actual physical ownership of NAA products.  I may be selling my remaining NAA items at attractive prices elsewhere, and any forum members (well, MOST forum members), will get special consideration if you happen to see anything posted on other forums by "sirbarkalot" or "louiethelump".  

   

   I truly hope that Orion and his ilk eventually get over the shock of actually receiving bids on their auctions, and that NAA management continues to work and improve on their products.

   

   I am off into the world in an attempt to "grow up", and while I am not going gold prospecting, I wish MDE well, as well as the rest of you.  (well, MOST of the rest of you....)

   

   Until recently this forum has been a lot of fun, and I have truly enjoyed the laughs and jokes here, even the ones directed at me, and all have been taken by me as humor and light conversation.

   

   Barky

[Uncle_Lee]

Sorry to see you go Barky but I doubt if you will be alone.

   

   Orion's insulting posts got to me.  

   "It was good to see the "crew" whine like the little girls they are. "  

   

   To let some one do that on a forum shows total disrespect for all members by the administrators of that forum.

   

   Today I go to pick up my Guardian. Other folks there are wanting to see it too.

   I WILL take my P3-AT along.

   I WILL compare the two. They both shoot the same round and at 15' both will be good enough for self defence.

   The Guardian Will feel like a brick in my back pocket. It WILL be likely to pull my pants down.

   I can buy two P3-ATs for the price of one Guardian. Why did I buy this?

   I have fired over 500 rounds through the Kel-Tec with out a failure. So it IS one that I can bet my life on.

   I doubt if I will be able to sell the Guardian to anyone there.

   

   I think Orion should apologize or be banned from here.

   

   "Yeah like a few disgruntled cry baby's here can make a dent in NAA, grow up."

   True, maybe not a dent, but the paint can be scratched.

   If he is not making money for NAA then they should not let him make a challenge like that.

[lohman446]

Wait... so... umm.. let me get this straight.

   

   You feel its fine to say whatever you want about Orion, painted guns,business practices, posters not in your clique, etc..  This should not be moderated or addressed

   

   If Orion says something negative about you he should be forced to aplogize or banned?

   

   If you don't get this you and all your friends are going to leave?  If my thirteen year old daughter and her friends did something like this it would not surprise me, from people professing this is how grown men act I find it amusing.  Its your choice, do what you will but remember that pride is a negative act and brings negative consequences in almost every major religion for a reason.  

   

   To the whole painted gun thing.  I have seen a handful of posts that were useful.  There are a couple that stand out in my mind as having pertinent information.  

   

   Redhawk pointed out the danger of painted guns being mistaken for something else.  I think its a valid point.  Mayvik said some of you (not everyone posting in the thread) needed to grow up.  Regretably some of you took this as directed at you that probably should not have.  NAA collector pointed out it might be best to put this in the past and move on.

[Uncle_Lee]

Some are moderated some are not.

   That is why I got upset.

   Let's see Orion's posts deleted also or apologize.

   

   If some have free speech then all have free speech.

   If some are censored then all should be censored.

   

   "It was good to see the "crew" whine like the little girls they are. " That is pointed at everyone.

   

   I have never "professed" to being grown, mature, or anything.

   

   Religon? "An eye for an eye."

[silvershooter]

From Orions own words we've learned that the only reason he is currently posting is because of the Bees drama. He also  agrees they are ugly and wouldn't carry one himself. His only complaint is that people posted bids on a picture of a gun set that wasn't really for sale because it was owned by an avid collector and was only listed for effect. Then he calls a stranger he met on the Internet multiple times after 10pm at his house to threaten legal action for posting a legally obtained picture from gunbroker. He uses personal attacks and name calling after the owner of naa has asked for civil behavior. In my opinion there's a lot of poor judgement going on and many who claim to have clean hands don't.  

   I'd prefer we could focus on naa products in a civil, open, and humerous way without all the name calling and threats.  

   Barky, I have concern that naa is advertising for this guy but I hope you'll maybe just take a break instead of leaving altogether.

[chopprs]

I as well have had my share. This used to be fun, educational and amusing but has become something of other and no longer has my interest. I will be selling my engraved guns if anyone is interested.

[bud]

Barky,

   

   If you leave, it will not be North American Arms loss, it will be ours. NAA may not notice your departure, but we on the forum will.  

   

   On a disagreement, I do not think that your decision to leave is the way to handle it.

   

   You input and opinions on guns and other topics is well respected and used as good info on this forum.  

   

   I'm glad my wife doesn't think that way and leave on a disagreement or being offended, because she would have left me a long time ago.

   

   Get over it, and lets all move on and keep posting on this forum.

[coopercdrkey]

Chop-  Please reconsider getting rid of those beautiful pieces of art.  Withholding future business is a decision that everyone will have to make, I guess, but selling the Otto-engraved pistols will hurt only you!

   

   I see Barky is going to list some or all of his NAA pieces.  I can understand that a little better since I think Bob has historically shuffled guns into and out of his collection.  In fact, I think I'll PM him about one of his Black Widows.  If he had the same investment, (not in dollars, but in pride and appreciation), that you have in the Buntline and the Mini, I would advise him the same way.

   

   Obviously up to you, but don't you think it would be cool, (or as you say, "Kewl!"), to always have those beautiful pieces to hold up in comparison to a pink polka-dotted Black Widow and say, "Here's how you adorn a pistol, if you feel the need !"

   

   Coop

[cedarview kid]

Sorry to see you go, Barky. I've been absent for long periods of time from this board over the past 10 years or so, but I always come back. Here to hoping I'll see you again!

[coinchop]

Real men don't have to run. Stick around.

   If you run, then the gun painter won...

   and thats what he wants.

   I would think it would take a better man than  

   him to run you off, but maybe I am wrong.

[redhawk4]

I think there is a big difference between the comments made about the "painted perils" which were about the guns and the colors/patterns as opposed to being personal. When the purveyors of these items took the criticism of these items personally and retorted with attacks aimed at specific individuals, rather than defending their color schemes, it started to get ugly and those who took the brunt of it were naturally upset. The fact that contact went beyond the bounds of the forum is utterly unforgiveable.  

   

   The crunch for several came when we we all told to "grow up", the posts were deleted, but yet the Duracoat vendors were able to continue their personal attacks and gloat at what they saw as a victory, unchecked.

   

   This left the impression, rightly or wrongly, that NAA was siding with the protaganists and condoning their behavior.

   

   I was accused wrongly of threatening NAA, because I made a comment that I hoped the Duracoat boys would produce enough extra sales to make up for the potential loss of business created by the upsetting of their loyal customer base. It was purely an observation that has turned out to be true, we already have a number of people wanting to distance themselves from NAA products as a result.

   

   I respect the decisions of members who have chosen to take this course, some were treated very shoddily, IMO. They have the right to free expression and the right to vote with their wallets.

[kingrichard]

Barky and others who have been offended: To me, your response is understandable, but please reconsider.

   

   I've spent a lot of time reading the posts on this forum and have learned a lot from, and been entertained the most by, the regulars here: Sirbarkalot, Chopprs, Mrmadhat, Uncle Lee, Bud, Naa collector, and others. Any of you would be severely missed and this forum would be lame without you.

   

   Don't let the painted guns/pink panties crew win this one. You're at home here and your wisdom and humor is appreciated and enjoyed.

   

   Chopprs: Those two engraved Minis are way too "kewl" to part with. Especially the Buntline. Your inspiration created them. It just seems wrong that you would part with 'em. If you must, by all means PM me, but what will be fitting is that you'll keep them and continue to show them off.

[kingrichard]

My above list of regulars that I enjoy reading here was certainly incomplete; Coinchop, Cookieruffruff, Quickdraw, Lauraslookout, Redhawk4, Heyjoe and others. You all know who you are. I've learned from and enjoyed reading posts from all of you and hope that all of you will continue to participate here.

[kingrichard]

Even MDE!!

[umpire]

HEY, what about me ?  

[redhawk4]

Seems like we have need for an Umpire given some of the disputes taking place

[woodchuckssuck]

Yea, this crap is exactly why forums have moderators, because even grown ups can't act like grown ups all the time.  

   

   Move on people. If it means you have to leave, well then do that if you must.  

   

   Lets get back to what this forum is for: Talking about the NAA Mini's, guardians, and other guns.  

   

   Take care

[cookieruffruff]

yes ,this board has changed it used too be fun,could'nt wait to read it but the deletion of some post and not others is wrong, SO IS EGO TRIPPIN mods an duracoaters. i will check in once in a while but the forum has lost it's luster, cookie n i wil miss ya barky,chopps keep in touch

[flyinbiker2001]

as a 3rd party I watched this unfold yes the bee's were ugly did you folks have to taunt and toy with the fellow with  bids- no- chopprs said on another post he had seen a bike that was ugly and said nothing- he had outgrown the impulse to say the obvious- ya they are ugly ya you guys ganged up on him ya he got POd ya sandy ended it as he should have  and no some of the time I cant shut my mouth when I should but I still know better

[orion]

Where's the drama queen poster when you need it.

   Why must some people go to all this drama just to say "some bad man hurt my wittle feelings"

   Some of you people crack me up.

   You want free speech but only for the clique crew

   You want to tear my business down and insult us personally but when it's turned back to you you get all hurt and offended and the old drama queen "Im leaving" BS

   chopprs started this and now he's all butt hurt?

   There were more than a coupe of fair minded people who did not tear us down or insult us.

   They were attacked too for saying the truth.

   

   

   Free speech for "the crew" but God forbid anyone defends himself.

   No reason for all the whiners to leave and OMG sell their NAA's?

   heheh JHC what bunch of real men we have here, see ya later guys , enjoy.

[flyinbiker2001]

dont say it guys the point is wasted

[coopercdrkey]

Yeah, I guess I'm one of the "real men" too.

   

   I think I always couched my criticism with the admission that it was your choice and prerogative to decorate your firearms as you and your clients wished.

   

   But when a guy who paints a rifle with bright colors and crochets a "Hello, Kitty" stock cover informs me that I have a problem, it's time to admit he's right.  It's time for me to go.

   

   See ya later, enjoy

[cookieruffruff]

orion, the reason WE are leaving is not because of you directly, it's because sandy has TWICE NOW DELETED OUR POST and we did not use profanity etc, how ever you are allowed to say whatever you want..... go figure   .....and barky is not a drama queen, neither is chopprs. they were just expressing their views

[redhawk4]

Cookie you are correct, it continues to frustrate me that the comments made by most members of the forum can be equated to any of the incoming from the Duracoat Defense League and their actions outside of the forum.

   

   However, it seems to me Orion is someone who must have the last word regardless of how petty or stupid that last word may be, or how it makes him look. I suggest for the sake of those who still want to enjoy the forum, when all this has passed, we ignore his comments, he is just trying to fan the embers of a dying fire, the quality of his posts say far more about him, than any reply we can post.

[heyjoe]

it was nice coming here having a few laughs, learning many things about NAA guns, guns in general, guns i never knew existed or understood really before,and also life over time. Lots of different people with lots of different experiences, points of view, insights, all parts of the country, even an immigrant from Great Britian who helped us to appreciate what we have here and how it can all be taken away in a short period of time and to be vigilant and even has some nice old 32's to boot, some thinking out of the box. Only a relatively few instances of things getting out of hand which before this were dealt with fairly.  

   

   Its interesting to note that a few of the worst instances involved those who were vendors for other products. The guy from Buffalo Bore comes immediately to mind.  

   

   I was hoping NAA would make that 32 mini but it dont look like thats whats going to happen.  

   

   i could add that it always amuses me when a keyboard commando tries to intimidate people on a gun forum...duh.....and i could also add that the very same would never look you in the eye and say the same things, but i wont.

   

   i hope things stabilize here and the one who continues to taunt even after Sandy made it clear that was enough are dealt with fairly. I think that is pretty much what is being asked for. Im not leaving but it wont be as much fun to come here for a while at least.

[grayelky]

I did not have an opportunity to read the thread that lead to this. I did, however read orion's last post (5 up from this as I type it), and it seems from that post he is not willing to move on and lets get to new business.

   

   I have been a little surprised at some of the posts made by Barky and Chopprs, especially towards MDE. I am even more surprised they are quitting that easy and letting someone else "win". I figured both had more brass b@!!s than to run this easy.

[lohman446]

The closest thing I have to not having said anything at all.

[clipper1]

...OK, let's see now, some Board members, some justified & some maybe not, have their "Knickers in a Twist" about being insulted & maligned by some distasteful, deleterious postings..Rather than deserting the Forum and a lot of people that respect what You say and think, Would not be a better and more productive course of action be to stop responding to this subject, and get back to the basic premise of this Forum???

[ricart]

I saw no reason to get into this thread, however, to let someone run you off over verbal jabs, amazing.  I remember Army basic, we were put down, made fun of, and generally harassed on an hourly basis.

   I was a LEO during the Vietnam days, put up with hippies calling me every name one might think of.  ( it was easier to take as I watched the cell door lock behind the ones that broke the law )  

   However, this is without a doubt, the most thin skinned bunch of folks I have come across.  As I remember, "collector" and I traded a few barbs back when he went under "darvel".  

   Point is, as Harry Truman use to say, "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".  Guess Barky is eating out as he is no longer in the kitchen.

[redhawk4]

While I agree with some of your points Ricart, lets not start another argument by goading those who decided to leave, by making personal remarks about how tough, or not, they may be. I don't think those who left did so because of personal remarks, they did so because they felt NAA sided with the "Duracoat Defense League" against them -that's a different thing - they felt, rightly or wrongly, there was a principle involved and you should respect their decisions based on that, whether you think they were correct or not.  

   

   Adding further insults to injury helps no one or the forum IMO

[lohman446]

I'm lost by this "duracoat defense league" thing and I am getting this nagging feeling that I am unknowingly part of it.  Very few people actually defended Orions actions or even the taste that led to those guns.  Some simply questioned the amount of venom against them and its purpose.  "This is how I like something and I am going to rag on anyone who likes it different" just does not seem welcoming.  I know "all the bids were legit" and I beleive that had any of those making them they would have followed through but ask yourselves what the real motivation behind it was.

[redhawk4]

DDL - refers to the purveyors of the Duracoat who got rather upset at the criticism, not any members of the forum - apologies for any confusion.

[lohman446]

I think a lot of this whole thing has been about confusion all the way around.  Yeh, I know there are a lot of posts that speak for themselves too and prove that wrong but a lot of the hard feelings coming out of this have not been intended I am sure.

[prplhays]

Pissing matches occur from time to time on most forums. That's life.

   

   There are rude posters on all forums. That's life.

   

   I don't read posts from rude posters, I just skip over them as soon as I see their name even if it's in the middle of a otherwise normal post.

   

   Its really not worth any effort on my part to read or respond in any way to a rude poster because that's what they want is a response/reaction.

   

   It might take several months, but most rude posters will eventually go away if no one responds to them.

   

   If every one were to ignore a rude poster, people new to the forum will see a rude poster for what he/she is and realize that this is not what this forum is about.  

   

   I doubt any moderator would ever step into a situation if the majority of forum members were just ignoring the rants of a rude poster.

   

   Finally, I guess my primary rule for posting would be - write posts as if the person you are directing the post to was standing right in front of you.  

   

   Flame away - end of sermon.

   

   jim

[shooter2]

I'm with you Prplhays. Many times here a post would be made,as an example, "My NAA has some particular issue". The first two or three posts would be on track as to help with the issue. Then posts would start getting into something like why does my neighbors dog take a dump in my yard.

   

   When I would see a post going in that direction I would stop going there. Generally, if I saw a post with 10+ replies, it was no longer talking about the original post.  

   

   I frequent the RimfireCentral forum and it is very rare when posts get into dissing someone. Not that it doesn't happen, but, mostly the folks are trying to be helpful. Here, a comment would be made and away things would go. And I think we have lost some good good people because of it. NAAlover comes to mind, great photos, the "where's the NAA" game was unique. Got made fun of. Haven't seen a post from him for awhile. There was another poster that could take some great photos (can't think of who it was) haven't seen anything from him either. Sad. Not to mention CJ who could post a dissertation on the ballistics of the NAA's but got ran off.

   

   Anyway, it all boils down to this, Sandy is the owner of this forum. If he feels things are starting to get out of hand he can stop it. "HE'S THE BOSS!" Do you folks remember what a boss is.

   

   I'm still going to be stopping in and see what's happening. The NAA's are a great product.