Will .32 NAA ever grow in popularity?

[TruthTellers]

Firstly, I'm a new member to this forum, but you may have seen me on other gun forums over the internet. I decided to join this forum because I own two NAA products, a 1 5/8" .22 LR/Mag combo and a Minimaster (which is an underrated model that I think is a premier trail or SHTF gun), but the main reason is I've become increasingly interested in the .32 NAA cartridge, but it seems very few people on the standard gun forums I frequent have much experience with it, so I wanted to come here where maybe (hopefully) others have a lot more opinions based in fact and not conjecture or platitudes.

With the introduction now done, I want to focus on .32 NAA.

When I first learned of the .25 and .32 NAA, I didn't think much of them beyond "Oh, that's nice" largely because I didn't think they had much merit. .25 NAA, even with the higher velocity I still don't think is a viable caliber because the bullets are just too light, but .32 NAA as I did more research really impressed me and I concluded that the bottleneck design to aid in feeding, the velocity that helped ensure expansion, ability to shoot 50 to 85 grain bullets, and the rimless case were all improvements on both .380 ACP and .32 ACP.

Without going into too much detail, the .32 NAA is now something I would really like to own, but I'm not interested in a Guardian, it's a well made gun, great machining and quality and all, but it's not a gun I want to own. Diamondbbck made a .32 NAA barrel for their .380 pistol years ago and sadly no longer does, but given the ease of converting a .380 to .32 NAA it had me wondering if the LCP II or Kahr or Bersa Thunder or other .380 pistols were offered in the cartridge if people would buy it?

New calibers are often really tough to get others on board because too many feel .22 and 9mm do all they need for a low price and it leads to a vicious cycle of lack of ammo causing gun companies to shy away from uncommon calibers which causes ammo manufacturers to shy away from making ammo for uncommon calibers because of lack of guns. It's the same thing plaguing the .32 revolvers and really .32 caliber guns in general like .32 ACP and even 7.62x25 Tokarev.

There are all excellent cartridges in their own way, but the industry is really dropping the ball and it makes me appreciate Lucky Gunner and all the work they've done on youtube in their mousegun series where they've praised .32 caliber guns a lot and I'm hopeful that's going to start to turn the tide in the information war.

So, I guess my question here is what is it going to take for .32 NAA to get recognized? I see it as a cartridge that performs better than .380 in every way performance wise, but fails in terms of ammo availability/price and guns available in the chambering. Is there anything short of sending emails to gun and ammo makers and posting on forum to raise awareness of the caliber or is .32 NAA doomed to die a most horrible death?

[grayelky]

I hope the .32 NAA does not die. I have one, and hope to get around to shooting it soon. At one point, a company offered limited runs of barrels for the LCP. I joined their email list to be notified, but have heard nothing. Until someone like Ruger and Hornaday (or Speer) team up, I am afraid it will linger along. I had a super nice Beretta 84 in my store, and searched for a 32 caliber barrel so I could have it converted to .32 NAA, but did not find one, and the gun sold. I felt it would have made a fantastic gun for my wife. Enough weight to help with recoil, and 13 rounds in the mag.

[bearcatter]

I don't know know if I'd rate as a "typical shooter", but I find the Guardian 32 to be my comfortable limit in a small pistol. I'm not alone in finding a pocket .380 a little too stout. I need at least a PPK size .380. The .32 NAA is going to out-recoil the .380, so that kills any pluses it had.

Might as well carry a 9 or 40, unless you can be happy with a pocket size howitzer...

[unclenunzie]

There's a company that made 32NAA barrels for the LCP, but don't any longer so far as I know. 

https://shop.innovativearms.com/product/32naa-conversion-barrel/

I'd guess the above company gave up on it for lack of sufficient sales. 

If Ruger were to offer an LCP in 32NAA the ammo makers would take notice, and competition might be forced to crank up.  Other than this, or something similar happening,  I just don't see enough public interest in this round.

[adp3]

Mainstream ammunition companies never produced ammo for the .32NAA. It was a boutique (CorBon) round. I am afraid it is bound for the ammo graveyard like the 9mm Federal and other limited platform rounds.

Best Regards,
ADP3

[Canoeal]

I don't know the 327 federal mag almost went into obscurity; now it is having a resurgence. There is hope for the good rounds. I am afraid the 25 NAA may not survive as well. You can get the same or better ballistics out of a 22 mag in a BW, which is much, much more available.

[Gog]

I don't know the 327 federal mag almost went into obscurity; now it is having a resurgence. There is hope for the good rounds. I am afraid the 25 NAA may not survive as well.

The .327... My favorite round! I wish a few more companies would make some revolvers for that again. I have an LCRx and a Single Seven now.

[Uncle_Lee]

Mainstream ammunition companies never produced ammo for the .32NAA. It was a boutique (CorBon) round. I am afraid it is bound for the ammo graveyard like the 9mm Federal and other limited platform rounds.

Best Regards,
ADP3

Hornady still makes them.

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/32naa

[Canoeal]

It helps that there are lever actions available in .327...

[TruthTellers]

I don't know the 327 federal mag almost went into obscurity; now it is having a resurgence. There is hope for the good rounds. I am afraid the 25 NAA may not survive as well. You can get the same or better ballistics out of a 22 mag in a BW, which is much, much more available.

There's a world of difference between a revolver caliber that's able to shoot shorter, lower recoiling, and/or cheaper ammo like .32 Mag and .32 S&W Long vs a semi auto caliber in a world where most people want nothing to do with a pistol in anything other than 9mm or .45.

But you use the word hope and I do feel that the good calibers are going to be the cream that rises to the top and I think .327 or .32 Mag revolvers are rising to the top as people see the benefits they provide over the typical .38. 10mm is another one that seems to be getting as much attention today as it has ever gotten and ammo had become available at good prices before the panic happened, but that's for what people perceive to be a powerful caliber for a semi auto.

.32 NAA isn't a powerhouse, but it's not anemic by any means either. The one benefit I can think of with it is if more pistols were available for it, they'd be polymer micro pistols that cost $300 or less, so it's not like it would be an expensive gun to buy like 10mm's are, which are typically $550+.

The problem with that line of thinking is that if people were willing to buy cheap micro pistols in offbeat calibers, we'd be seeing more .32 ACP pistols and we're not and it's not like turning any of the .380 pistols into a .32 ACP or .32 NAA would be all that difficult outside of a barrel, recoil spring, and/or a magazine.

[grayelky]

People in our country are deep into "bigger is better". They think the 380 is way better than the 32 ACP, simply because it is bigger. The .32 is easier to shoot due to less recoil. A 2nd and 3rd shot is much easier and quicker. It also seems to penetrate good. On paper, the 380 is much better. In actual police investigated shootings, the 32 fairs ALMOST as good as the 380. If more people would shoot the 32, its sales would start increasing, as well as the availability of ammo would improve.

[bearcatter]

I agree the .32 ACP is a better overall cartridge than .380, especially in smaller guns. The pluses outweigh the minus. It's been around about 110 years, in over 50 pistols. Must be pretty good, huh?

[RogueTS1]

I do not have any smg's in .32 acp. I do however have one in .380 acp so I can carry and reload the same ammo. 

[TruthTellers]

I do not have any smg's in .32 acp. I do however have one in .380 acp so I can carry and reload the same ammo. 

The Vz. 61 is in .32 ACP and even in full auto without using the stock it's apparently very controllable.

I can only imagine what a .32 NAA sub machine gun would be like.

[RogueTS1]

I do not have any smg's in .32 acp. I do however have one in .380 acp so I can carry and reload the same ammo. 

The Vz. 61 is in .32 ACP and even in full auto without using the stock it's apparently very controllable.

I can only imagine what a .32 NAA sub machine gun would be like.

No Vz 61 either so -------> no .32 acp. 

[xtriggerman]

 Hello all..
  Jumping in here as my first post, I'm compelled to bring this to the for front of why there is new life being breathed into the 32NAA. Here is a post I recently posted in a fav forum of mine. I learned a bit about ballistics back in 79-81 when I was a full time student at PA Gunsmithing School.

  Some here may all ready be familiar with Lehigh and Honey Badger all copper bullets but for those that haven't seen them. They have put a new light on the 380 & 32 ACP rounds. Even the 9mm has had a checkered past in its self defense roll but now the all copper bullet has created a new bench mark of performance that is changing the SD ammo world.   
  The Lehighs have a wide variety of reloading bullets at Midway or is loaded by Underwood. These all copper bullets are pretty much a revolutionary step in mouse gun SD. I was never one to suggest 32 ACP as a SD gun and cringed a bit with a 380 in that roll but these new bullets are game changers. Those small calibers simply don't have the moxy needed for violent tissue damage in many cases. A hollow point needs to expand and that expansion comes at a price of used bullet energy when theres little to be had in the first place. Imagine how much energy it would take you to put a 32 or 380 HP round in a hand press and squash it into a perfect mushroom. The energy you just used in the process is entirely wasted in effecting deeper penetration or cavity damage. The scalloped cuts on the all copper bullets lose none of their energy by necessitating a metal reconfiguration. The result is far more tissue damage and penetration. The youtube videos all prove this out. I remember an all copper bullet that was tested in handgun defensive loads in a Gun Digest I have from the late 60's. It was of a pointed conical design and it was pretty devastating in the test media of the day. Problem was, those bullets were hand made on non CNC machines and simply were not cost effective for the market. That's all changed today. In light of all this, my NAA 32 rides in a cell phone pouch I have, and yet to load the 55g Lehighs. A 380 NAA guardian will barely fit with a spare mag standing up under the grip, but I am looking to trade that out for a 32NAA due to the now available lighter 55 grain bullets at Midway, giving slightly less recoil.     
   Now the problem is reloading dies. I found a couple places in Europe selling 2 die sets for the 32NAA for 139 Euros but nothing here. So it was time to Email Lee who had made them earlier. Here is that conversation.
  "Hello, Being a trained gunsmith of over 40 years, I would like to urge Lee to bring back loading dies for the 32NAA. I believe you had once made them years ago. What has changed is the exploding popularity of Lehigh all copper self defense bullets. Black hills is now offering their own similar bullet in all copper called the Honey Badger. The stats of the 3 Lehigh .311  all copper bullets have put new life into the 32NAA as a self defense carry gun.  I for one, will buy a set out of your first new run of these die sets!  Please give me good news on bringing this set back. Be Well"
    The reply
  Laine @ Lee Precision 
We used to make the 32 NAA dies exclusively for North American Arms on a custom basis and have not done so in close to 10 years. At this point, we do not have enough demand to warrant producing them on a standard basis so would remain a custom item once we resume custom services. We are sorry for the inconvenience.

  So, this falls on NAA in the end to get this new sales segment of Guardian moving to a new level with die sets. Maybe heck gets a frost & Underwood will put out a loading for the 32NAA with Lehigh bullets or even Corbon but reloading is where the shooting get good $ 4 $. For us older baby boomers, small was all ways good but as the years roll by its even better. NAA can kick it up a notch or 2 for the 32 cal guns. I have 2 NAA revolvers but they are nothing like the 32's in stopping power especially now with all copper pills.

   

[Canoeal]

Sound like an ad...the .32 NAA Guardian is the same size as the .380 Guardian...

[Astrosaint]

I had the pleasure of seeing a 32 NAA bullet in action.  In Texas and other states, there is a wild hog problem.  I saw a video with a 32 NAA barreled Guardian drop a 400 + pounder with a single shot ! I used to think you had to use a big bore firearm to do that.  I would not try to do that with the 32 regular caliber Guardian I have.

Astrosaint

[TruthTellers]

I agree with xtriggerman that getting die sets out from being a custom order of $200 and making them a standard production item for $50 is the first and easiest step to getting .32 NAA more attention. I've been asking on forums and in person to organize a group buy and nobody wants to join me and I'm not interested in putting out $200 for a set of dies.

Looking at some older posts on forums from years ago Lee would waive the $150 setup fee if quantities were at least 25, so for a little more than $1000 NAA could send in an order to Lee, Lee would make them, and NAA could sell them to us and probably make a profit doing it. Why NAA wouldn't do this is questionable, but my guess is, like all other gun makers, they don't want to deal with warranty repairs for guns that people blew up from a doublecharge.

I didn't know that NAA had originally contracted Lee to make the dies for .32 NAA, so I'm going to email NAA and request they work with Lee again to make it easier for people to get dies, even if it's not to shoot them in the Guardian pistols.

Bottom line is if someone like me can realize that .32 NAA is a good cartridge for self defense, then others will too. I don't expect ammo companies to suddenly start offering as many .32 NAA ammo options as they do .380, so it's really going to come down to people loading their own ammo to get .32 NAA demand up.

[xtriggerman]

 Lee dosent even have their custom services up and running according to the reply so I think I'll Email the other die manufacturers and see what their minimum order would be to make a run if they would even consider it. Heck, if it was a matter of a couple grand or so, I would fund it my self and sell them off on Ebay! IDK, we'll see what the others say on this.

[xtriggerman]

  I just got this reply from NAA about if they would ever order dies again.

  "Thanks for reaching out and for the interest, we really appreciate it! Unfortunately, NAA has decided that they are not interested in providing the reloading dies sets, due to liability reasons.
I would be more than happy to pass along the suggestion to our purchasing and management personnel for further consideration. We are always looking at improving our product lineup to better meet our customer's needs"

  OK then..... Looks like I need to find out about if there is a Maybe from any of the die makers.  Stay tuned.

[TruthTellers]

I sent NAA an email about working with Lee to sell the die sets again and got a reply saying they're not going to be selling die sets again due to "liability." Of course, they don't want people using hot ammo in their guns, so that's fine, but it does nothing to help get the cartridge with their name on it out of the dog house it is stuck in.

Too bad, NAA actually has a winner with .32 NAA and they're gonna waste all the potential it has at a time when millions of people are becoming first time gun owners buying any guns they can find.

[nutsnax]

First post here; here is what I think is needed for .32 NAA to catch on.....

-A reasonably well known gun youtuber who can reload to get some 32 naa dies
-Build a load using scaled-back .380 powder levels and a fast-burn powder like titegroup or red dot (to account for bottleneck pressure increases)
-demonstrate the velocity increase and ballistic improvements over other cartridges
-demonstrate penetration improvements over 380 and other cartridges
-demonstrate feeding reliability improvements via bottleneck cartridge

[grayelky]

Want 32 NAA available in ammo and guns? Get Ruger or S&Wor Sig, etc, to introduce the caliber. They won't do it without ammo support from a major company. Enough people will always be the first to have any thing "new", so they can talk about how great it is, this will stimulate the shooting public. Then, and only then, will we know for sure if this cartridge is as good as we think it is.

TruthTellers-

A board member recently made a post about converting a Beretta 32 ACP to 32 NAA. Do yourself a favor and find the post and read it, and the link he provides.

[cfsharry]

Never been a fan of the 32acp. Too many very small 380acp guns that offer great concealabilty with quite an edge in the ability to inflict damage to an aggressor.
Paul Harrell has a great video on u tube that I would suggest you watch as it is quite instructive.

[xtriggerman]

At least one outfit sees merit in a conversion barrel. The Ruger LCP. Iv been told the LCP is a bear to shoot in its 10 oz unloaded weight with standard 380 loads. A 32NAA loaded with 1400 fps 55g bullets should actually be a bit less in recoil while giving improved penetration. And yes, I'v seen that Harrel vid. It speaks well of the 380 but I still think theres an edge to sold coppers in that bottle neck.
https://shop.innovativearms.com/product/32naa-conversion-barrel/

[RogueTS1]

Iv been told the LCP is a bear to shoot in its 10 oz unloaded weight with standard 380 loads.

I hear this all the time. It must be from those that shoot their LCP in its stock form which is very, very narrow and hard to grip. With a little upgrade work the LCP is easy to grip and hence shoot ................ even for the Princess. Even she does not understand where such ideas come from. Her EDC pistol is our upgraded LCP. 

[barrytheprof]

Rogue, what did you do to the grip?

[RogueTS1]

Hogue Beavertail rubber grip pinned on and Pearce extended magazine base plates:

Widens and extends the grip quite a bit in the hand as well as making it sticky and less plastic feeling.

[barrytheprof]

Thanks I'm sending this to my son.

[RogueTS1]

You are welcome Barry.

[grayelky]

It is quite surprising what a section of bicycle inner tube will do to help any small gun, such as the LCP. Look into law enforcement investigated shootings. You will find he 32 ACP does not know it is inferior to the 380, and, it has less recoil, making the 2nd and 3rd shots much easier and quicker.

[cfsharry]

Gravelly,
Watch the video.

[grayelky]

Gravelly,
Watch the video.

I missed any video above here. Link?

[xtriggerman]

I believe he was referencing this vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWmg0wB5xsA&list=PLd98a0eXKyv5LuAnijjt76r8V9AGrMK9h