As I age maybe NAA is all that's needed

top dog · September-30-20 09:09

O&G,
Most of the rattlers ( I call them buzzworms) down where I hunt quail are in the 4+ foot range.

However,a snake bite can pretty much bankrupt you.

One person was bitten by a Copperhead and that overnight stay was $200,000. Another was bitten by a cotton Mouth/Water Moccassin and that 6 night stay was $300,000.

Don't count on insurance picking up the entire tab. Most of the snake anti-venom stuff goes for $20,000+ a pop with several needed

Snake gaiters are a must with a constant vigil no the ground.

Chances of being bitten are fairly rare...............................until it "occurs"

The recoil of the Bond with the 3 inch 410 shell is not really bad. Because of the grip configuration,all of the recoil is in the palm of the hand.

I can fire off 20+ rounds in a range session with no real hardship,but in all honesty,would prefer the Black Widow to fire off many more rounds w/o any problem.

Top Dog

OLD and GRUMPY · October-15-20 19:10

Will your 410 fire 45 long colt? I am playing around with empty shot capsules from Speer. 150gr #9 shot. Will post a new topic on it.

top dog · October-18-20 07:10

O&G,
Sorry for the late reply,just came back from a Quail hunt in South Georgia. Snake Gaitors are a KUST down there!!

Yes,the Bond in 410 will fire the 45 LC. The Speer capsules will work just fine.

Top Dog

OLD and GRUMPY · October-18-20 08:10

Might solve the recoil problem. They hold about 150gr of shot. Use #9 or 12 if you can find that.

flash · October-18-20 15:10

Deciding on something more compact and manageable as one ages makes sense to me. We are not looking to pacify angry mobs. We are not looking to put a bunch of people in the ground. We are looking for something that can be carried unobtrusively in pretty much every situation where it is legal, which can offer a deterrent effect (which covers something like 98.5% or 99% of real world scenarios) and which gives us a disabling or lethal short range attack against one, or a small number of, opponents if it comes to that.

There is no question that a 9mm, .45 ACP, carbine, shotgun etc is the more effective tactical choice. Given the option, anyone would reach past the mini to grab the Glock/Colt/CZ etc. But for day to day carry a mini covers things "well enough". It is playing the odds.

And it is telling that those with more life experience are willing to make the trade-off.

In the words of Claude Werner a.k.a. the "Tactical Professor" the mission is different for civilians than for law enforcement or military. Civilians carrying for self defense aren't trying to kill anyone who opposes them. Civilian self defense is specifically about ending the threat. Breaking contact. Mouse guns are appropriate for that role.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv6PxB2TqLM&t=107s

As I type this I just got back from Seattle. My wife and son went down there on an errand and had a flat tire on the side of the road. I drove down to assist. Not because they needed the help so much as because it is Seattle. I had a .22LR mini with me. My son had a .32 Guardian with him.

One more quick anecdote. My father wore coveralls to the end of his days (he passed in 2018). For the last 25 years he had a NAA Black Widow tucked away in an interior chest pocket, with a small cloth tucked over the barrel inside the holster to prevent pocket lint from fouling the gun. (My brothers and I pooled our resources and bought him the Black Widow in 1993 after he had expressed great interest in my .22LR mini, except that his hands were too big to safely grip the little .22LR). Given the opportunity he would OF COURSE reach for the Makarov kept in his nightstand, or the S&W Model 36 he kept nearby, or any of a host of other options. Regardless of what else he had, that Black Widow was his constant companion.

Speaking to the 410 shot for snakes I have to wonder how a CCI .357 shotshell would work. It would likely be more manageable than a .410 shell. I also have to wonder how a .22 shotshell out of a mini would do at very short range. I used to carry .22 "snake loads" in my 1-1/8" 22LR mini when I lived in Utah but never had the need to shoot a snake.

barrytheprof · October-18-20 16:10

CCI makes 22mag shotshells that have a bit more umph than the 22LR. When I'm in the woods I load up a BW with these. They improve my probability of success with small animals and will also serve as a deterrent to 2 legged animals if you can hit bare skin. In my area the probability of meeting a rabid animal is greater than a bad human encounter.

I switch back to self defense rounds when back in civilization, such as it is.

Bigbird48 · October-19-20 16:10

Quail did somebody say QUAIL?How bout wabbit or chipmonk LOL

Quote from: top dog on October-18-20 07:10
O&G,
Sorry for the late reply,just came back from a Quail hunt in South Georgia. Snake Gaitors are a KUST down there!!

Yes,the Bond in 410 will fire the 45 LC. The Speer capsules will work just fine.

Top Dog

Doc Holliday · October-20-20 06:10

Today I have my NAA Wasp with Real Stag Grips and my Beretta 950 BS 25 acp. Don't feel under armed! I have around 40 handguns in all calibers , but feel adequately armed without carrying the big boys all the time! Sometimes...you just have to make informed decisions and go with what does the job. At 73 years old..the light weight of mouse guns just makes me feel a bit more comfortable while adequately armed. Just MHO!
Cheers,
Doc Holliday

top dog · October-20-20 07:10

Doc,
I agree with you.

Those grips look super nice!!!

The beauty of the NAA minis is that they can always be with you. Most appropriate for discreet carry.

Top Dog

Doc Holliday · October-20-20 07:10

Thanks top dog
Started out with NAAs Faux Stag and though they were fairly inexpensive, but..they were plastic and shined too much for my likes. So I bought their real Stags at a much higher price! About the price of the Wasp! LOL! But I am super pleased with them. Now trying to get hold of the NAA Antivenom...but can't seem to find one in stock anywhere.
Hope to find one soon!
Cheers,
Doc Holliday

josp · October-20-20 10:10

Carry what's comfortable for you and your situation. For my 90 year old Dad, living by himself, that's a Colt Jr 22 short I found him some years ago. It rides in his pocket and he enjoys that it's about as old as he is, and still works.
At work, I carry bigger guns. When not at work, I carry smaller ones.
The mini magnum is always in a pocket, just in case.
When I retire.....I may only carry the mini, depends on what this world and my little piece of it look like at that time.
Cheers!

top dog · October-21-20 07:10

Some years ago,during an evening shift I had to go on a "check on well being call" for an elderly man whose daughter could not get a hold of.

I got no answer to the knock on the door so started to check the windows when I was challenged from the man inside.

All worked out well and his weapon of choice was an old Colt Detective Special (he was a retired detective). The gun needed cleaning and the rounds needed to be replaced.

Next evening,I went back to his home with a cleaning kit and cleaned the revolver and supplied him with fresh ammo.

The simple fact is/was that he was armed with what he was comfortable with and that is what counts.

Why could his duaghter not contact him? Phone was out of order. Repair service notified.

Top Dog

OLD and GRUMPY · October-21-20 08:10

Cops doing good. News covers cops and fire and others cutting grass and buying food or a new bike for a kid that had his ripped off. Perhaps Newsmax or Rightside or NRA news letter could cover this. One of you must have contacts.

top dog · October-22-20 06:10

O&G,
There are many stories out there about police officers and fire fighters/EMS personnel doing good things for their communities.

But the media wants to focus on more "exciting" things.

This a bit off thread but some time back,my PD did a "positive" community relations thing when new seat belt laws were introduced.

We set up traffic points and when we saw a motorist using seat belts we would give them a gift certificate to one of the area burger joints.

Also I always had a box of Milk Bones with me. If I saw folks walking their dog(s),I would stop,get out and give them a Milk Bone. Started many informative conversations.

Many times folks would ask about the pistol permit process and I would steer them in the correct direction.

Top Dog

flash · October-22-20 09:10

Amen.

Are there "bad" or "attitude" cops? Sure. They are human and we humans ain't all perfect. I have had my share of dealings with LE and am convinced that the overwhelming majority are decent people wanting to make a difference. And doing what can be a tough and draining job. I can't imagine spending all day dealing with the worst people have to offer. Mowing someone's lawn or pushing someone's wheelchair across the street, or cleaning an old gentleman's Colt for them, almost has to be a breath of fresh air in comparison to yet another domestic dispute call or a drunk driving accident.

FYI my Guardian .32 was originally a local cop's backup. Maybe a backup to his backup.

I wonder how many older, retired LE, now carry their backup piece and how many, if any, are carrying NAA's.

Bigbird48 · October-22-20 12:10

My biggest problem is how difficult it is to get rid of bad cops. It seems they will do everything to defend them no matter how much evidence there is against them. We had a Glendale cop that was extremely bad , not doubt about it. Caught on tape using extreme excessive force, caught on tape lying about it. Then they tried to defend his actions, then they let him retire with full benefits. This is ridiculous.This guy should be behind bars. How many cops get caught doing bad things and before any action against them is taken they quit that Dept and go get hired by another dept. and they do this crap multiple times. It happens every day is every city across the nation. Bad cops have to be weeded out and never allowed to work in any kind of law enforcement again. Its the same in our government. How many proven crooked politicians are still in politics and walking around free. Something has to be done....

top dog · October-23-20 06:10

BigBird,

I agree with you. Unfortunately it has been a problem for as long as mankind.

Flash,

Lots of retired LEOs now carry their back up pieces while retired. Believe it or not,there are many out there that prefer the minis to the larger pieces.

There have been a few 32 acp Guardians from time to time and a Seecamp or two. Lots of Ruger LCPs now.

And once in a while,with the more "mature" retirees,some classic Colt "vest Pocket" 25 acp numbers.

Top Dog

RogueTS1 · October-23-20 08:10

Quoteclassic Colt "vest Pocket" 25 acp

This one dates to 1912.

Bigbird48 · October-23-20 14:10

I have a 380 LCP and a SCCY 9mm thats pretty small but I prefer my Black Widow Mag.

Quote from: top dog on October-23-20 06:10
BigBird,

I agree with you. Unfortunately it has been a problem for as long as mankind.

Flash,

Lots of retired LEOs now carry their back up pieces while retired. Believe it or not,there are many out there that prefer the minis to the larger pieces.

There have been a few 32 acp Guardians from time to time and a Seecamp or two. Lots of Ruger LCPs now.

And once in a while,with the more "mature" retirees,some classic Colt "vest Pocket" 25 acp numbers.

Top Dog

top dog · October-24-20 06:10

BigBird,
I agree with you. I always seem to have my BW in my back pocket in a Mika Pocket holster.

Bob Mika started his business when he was LAPD/SWAT years ago. I still have one of his "garage days" first holsters.

He has since retired and moved out to Wisconsin and has increased his line up.

Getting back to the 22 maq in the Black Widow,the late Bill Jordan in his book No Second Place Winner that was published in '65 extolls on the virtues of the 22 magnum in a light weight snubby. This was years before the NAA Minis came out so now I would think that his thoughts would be even more positive about the Black Widow carry package.

If you can get it,read the book,it is timeless.

Top Dog

Bigbird48 · October-24-20 08:10

No Second Place Winner I found several copies online and free downloads. I downloaded a PDF free copy. .

Boisesteve · October-24-20 08:10

TD,
A coincidence to your recommendation: in an attempt to catch up on the classic writing in the field, I just ordered No Second Place Winner by Jordan, Sixguns by Keith, and also Unintended Consequences by Ross. I recently found a very affordable copy of McGivern's Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting but have yet to read it, and at Taffin's recommendation read Huntin' Gun by Walter Rodgers, which was good reading.
After reading as much of his work as I could find on line, I'd love to find an affordable copy of Skeeter Skeltons books, or of Keith's autobiography. Classics all, missed when I was in a younger mans shoes.
Be well, Steve in Boise

Texron · October-28-20 10:10

At a young 71, I carry a Wasp 22wmr in my truck and a NAA 22wmr with pocket holsters in my car. To get gas or run in a convenience store, I slip one in my pocket. If I go to Walmart, Academy, or a restaurant, I usually have my S&W 9mm Shield with me. By my bed is my Ruger (also the name of my Doberman) Security 9. I have a couple of 22lr handguns and a 22rifle in the house and my trusty NAA 32 Guardian in the bathroom. My wife has her NAA Black Widow with 22 wmr by her bed. We feel comfortable with this arrangement.

Bigbird48 · October-28-20 19:10

Ruger meet UZI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12Cqt_QrUxo

top dog · October-29-20 06:10

Boisesteve,

Can't beat the classics. When I feel kind of low,I turn to is Gunsite Gargantuan Gossip published by Gunsite Press out in Paulden,AZ

Yep,Col.Cooper kind of says things right off the bat that just cheer me up right away. Tells it like it is.

Top Dog

Boisesteve · October-29-20 07:10

Thanks for the reading suggestion TD, I'll have to get a copy.
I was there for a weeklong class in June 2019, kinda a retirement present to self 11 months before I finally retired. Lew Gosnell, Ed Head, and Mike Moore were the instructors, I was the 'lowest common denominator' of the student group. They were hugely patient while being strict at the same time, and I improved and improved again.
Time well spent!
Be well.

Uncle_Lee · October-29-20 12:10

Want a copy?
Check here.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2505460.m570.l1313&_nkw=Gunsite+Gargantuan+Gossip&_sacat=0

top dog · October-30-20 07:10

Boisesteve,

One of the former instructors at Gunsite was Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch. I consider Gunsite and Thunder Ranch to probably be the best of the private firearms schools.

Money very well spent.

A buddy of mine runs an occassional "cane protection course" for the elderly/disabled/DAVs and his classes are packed full.

Good to see that folks are getting instruction and improving themselves.

Top Dog

OLD and GRUMPY · October-30-20 08:10

This cane has become my EDC and keeps me on my feet. Cold Steel City Stick. 11 layers of fiber glass. Light and hard to brake. I added grip tape and a standard cane tip from Walmart. Got both the ball and pistol grip heads. Watch--- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9r427P-GBY --- On sale Free shipping with $49. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1017272823?pid=792507 If it is too tall it is easy to trim with a hack saw.

Boisesteve · October-30-20 12:10

TD, O&G,
You two are making me think. I already use a hiking stick when I hike in the mts. Good for balance, esp when crossing streams on rocks. Maybe it's time for daily regular stick use. I'll think on it.
Steve in Boise

OLD and GRUMPY · October-30-20 13:10

It will give you a backup when going places you cant carry gun or blade. Government buildings? One reason I picked the city stick is it looks classy for a night out but does not look like a OLD FART rehab cane or a driftwood log. In "Lord of the rings" the gate keeper for the king of Rohan wanted Gandalf to not take his staff in with him. Gandy asked "would you deny a old man his stick?"

Did not work out well for the king.

OLD and GRUMPY · October-30-20 13:10

Night out, every day, Great grandpas. A little grip tape and about 10 yards of jump cord. And ready for a walk.

Boisesteve · October-30-20 14:10

Very nice O&G! And is that Jim Croce I hear singing? 😁

OLD and GRUMPY · October-30-20 14:10

LEROY!!!! Don't you go out with that. And take the trash out on your way.

top dog · October-31-20 06:10

O&G

Is that a NAA 22 Mag Companion that I see with the Birds Head grip walking stick??

Classic combination!!!

When hunting,I use a Pat Crawford Survival Staff with a rifle rest attachment. When fly fishing,I use my very old,no longer made,Postenkill Hiking staff. I probe the water ahead of me,never can tell when things may get "deeper than anticipated".

Over the years,these "walking assistance devices" have prevented me from taking many spills and dips into the deeper waters.

Top Dog