Sandy?s Soapbox for October

grayelky · October-14-21 03:10

Sandy has posted a rant for this month's soapbox. You might be very surprised what his position is. I suggest you read it so there will be no misunderstanding. Below is my response:

If the basic tenement of our American way of life is freedom of choice, then does not the freedom for an individual to choose what is best for him/her, the very heart and soul a cornerstone of that freedom? If one chooses to stand in a cold rain, is that not their choice? If a person chooses to not worship the God our forefathers believed in, and made a part of our country's foundation still the individuals choice? Is the COVID vaccine as safe and effective as those government agents who favor its use claim it to be? If these claims are true, if wearing a cheap, easily made, disposable mask effective in keeping its wearer safe, if maintaining what we have been indoctrinated into believing as social distancing is an effective means of being safe is true and accurate, then help me to understand why it is so important for an American to surrender their choice of receiving a vaccine so important to keep those safe who choose to get that vaccine? By getting vaccinated have those individuals not already taken the major step to protect themselves? If this vaccine is safe and effective, then those, such as Sandy, who has received all the proper dosages, protected from this disease that was released on the world? Given the tenement our government only provides us with true and accurate information, those who choose not to be vaccinated pose no threat to those who have been vaccinated. The worst case scenario is, the unvaccinated will become sick, and risk death, while the vaccinated remain safe. Why, then, is it becoming so popular to chastise those who choose not to be vaccinated? Even the current President of our country has threatened to use the power of his office to chastise those who still believe in the freedom of choice. While he has yet to put pen to paper and make his threat legal, the fact he spoke it has major businesses firing people who do not wish to get vaccinated. Hospitals are firing nurses who do not get the shot. One such hospital was reported to have fired 600 such employees for not doing as threatened they better do. Why? Are not those indoctrinated souls safe? Surely they are, as the government has said they are. Why then has it become necessary for proponents of this vaccine, which was produced and approved in less than a year, when the normal course for a new drug to be considered safe and effective for use and approved for commercial use takes up to 10 years, to try and shame those who are leery of it. What is wrong with an individual exercising the freedom of choice? Is there an ulterior motive the common man is unaware of? Why has such a respected person as Sandy joined the ranks of those opposed to individual choice? Why has he lowered himself to name calling and speaking ill of those who do not choose to follow what he believes is best for him? IF this vaccine is as safe and as effective as he believes, why did our government take steps to make it impossible to file a lawsuit against any company who produces a vaccine to protect against COVID 19? Free? Then how can the drug companies show a billion dollar profit? Do I know how dangerous this COVID 19 is? Sort of. I do know how dangerous the treatment of it is. I do know how protected the medical profession is over the treatment of this plague. My wife of 38 years contracted the disease, and was declared cured of it, even safe for family to visit in the hospital. Unfortunately for me, our children and grandchildren those same medical professionals who induced a coma so they could treat her, could not bring her out of the coma they put her in. It was then thrust upon me to decide if she should whither away over a period of weeks or months before her body finally became too weak to remain alive and succumb to death, or should I decide to have the lifesaving equipment the doctors used to keep her alive in the coma they induced turned off and let her die much more quickly? Contrary to what I was told, it did not take 3 to 5 minutes for her to cease living. It took 22 of the hardest minutes in my 69 years 11 months of life to stand there holding her hand while her body finally gave up. So, yes, I do know what is at stake. I still believe it is an individual's right to decide for themselves which course of action to take.

pietro · October-14-21 04:10

.

Please accept out condolences on your loss - I know it's devastating.

Aside from that, with all due respect, I side with Sandy - although I'm more disappointed, than disgusted.

After all, how many decades have folks been safely getting vaccinations ?

I know my vaccinations started over 75 years ago, when I was a toddler.

I suspect most others here started long ago, too.

I choose to do whatever it takes for our modern society to continue to function normally, but don't worry about things I can't control.

Via 'con Dios, all.....

.

bearcatter · October-14-21 05:10

Sandy's post looks very familiar. Either it's been up a while and I already saw it, or some of it was copy and pasted from elsewhere. No matter if it says what he intended. Everyone has the right to say their peace. I'll just say that I'm not tested or vaccinated. and intend to stay that way.

I can empathize with grayelky. Personal choices can be very hard to make. I haven't mentioned it here, but my wife passed away on October 3rd. Bad heart valve, and after she researched it, she refused treatment. She went into palliative care, and passed during the night on her 15th day in hospital.

It was very hard for me, for her to basically say that she wanted to die, but over the days I began to understand her wanting to go to Jesus.

I didn't mention it here, I just felt this wasn't the place for that. I will say that staying active on my several forums has helped me have some distraction from dealing with it. Every post from every member has helped me more than you know, and I thank you all for that.

I've had a nightmare settling her affairs. Missing IDs, passwords, and account numbers. Too many phone calls, emails, letters and faxes. Doing dozens of online forms. This week I'm finishing what I hope are the last four tasks. You guys have been a big help and didn't know it.

Hang in there, grayelky. We will get through this, it just takes time to heal.

jennflip · October-14-21 05:10

Sorry for Sandys and Bearcatters loss------This Government is out of control!!! If the Repubs do not win in 22-24 this country will be in deep trouble!!!
Keep your powder dry--There are enemies afoot!!!!

Uncle_Lee · October-14-21 07:10

I couldn't believe grayelky's post.
This country is split right down the middle and he chose one side.
He is a business owner and wants to sell his product so he shouldn't advertise what side he is on.
He may (will) loose customers from the other side.

Yes bearcatter the soapbox sounds familiar. You hear it every day from biden and those selling it for him.
It sounds like it was written by the same person that writes for biden.

Grayelkey, I didn't see your post.

Here is mine:

There are two sides to this subject.
Members of both sides buy NAA firearms.
Now Sandy says to an interested buyer, Please buy a NAA firearm.
OH, by the way, I find you contemptable.

This country is split right down the middle. There are two firmly rooted sides.
A business owned can choose one side over the other but should not advertise it.
He/she will piss off one side (a lot of customers).

The government is already taking our freedoms as fast as they can.
If I want a shot, I will get it.
If I don't want the shot, I won't.
If you have had your shots, then you cannot get it from me.
If you can get it from me, then the shots don't work.
If the shots don't work, why get them?

Another company wanting to limit freedom.
I am like Sandy. My feelings have changed.
I have viewed Sandy way up there, now he has chosen a side in a political matter (the virus IS a political matter).
Now my feelings for him are incredulity in contempt.
I have near 55 minis, but no more will grace my shoebox !!!!!!!!!!

heyjoe · October-14-21 08:10

I can't find the soapbox from this month

Never mind it was August, I was looking for October

OV-1D · October-14-21 08:10

Grayelky ................................ you've brought me to tears , GOD BLESS ALL INVOLVED . Honest words I know about all you have spoken , our world is a crap shoot anymore about everything its such a shame to mankind these days . Again Gray GOD BLESS and be strong for all concerned .

heyjoe · October-14-21 08:10

Sincere condolences to you Bearcatter, your family, your wife's family and friends in your time of grief.

Boisesteve · October-14-21 08:10

It is experimental gene therapy. It is NOT a vaccine as vaccines have been, taking a virus and attenuating or killing it, then injecting the result into the person so immunity is provoked. I have read that this so-called vaccine attempts to provoke immunity by manipulating your RNA directly. Mis-naming something to make it seem acceptable raises my suspicion (I do not care how many times you point at the turd floating in the swimming pool and tell me it is a chocolate bar, it is still a turd).

https://gatesofvienna.net/2021/02/31-reasons-why-i-wont-take-the-vaccine/

I think Sandy has made a business mistake... or maybe not: he may be looking to expand his market by selling to woketards.

PS condolences to Grayelky, and to Bearcatter, my prayers are for you and yours.

RogueTS1 · October-14-21 09:10

Our condolences Bearcatter. We did not know. Our best wishes to you. So sorry for your loss. Once again the same for you Gray.

Uncle Lee has made great points. It seems far too many people unfamiliar with how these things work are formulating ideas based upon the lies and subterfuge that the government is putting out there. To make matters worse they seem to be taking the bait and rather than making an informed decision for themselves and proceeding, they are making said decision and then attempting to also make it for others. How hard is it to just accept that decisions such as these should be left up to the individual? That those around you could possibly be persuaded using concern, facts and discussion rather than persecution and denigration and then left to their own decisions? That while one may disagree with another's decision or reasoning; that they recognize that it is their's to make and one can still get along with another despite their differences.

We are not sure exactly what the government is up to but based upon their actions over the last year and a half, it would seem they are up to something more than saving the world from a deadly plague. Either this virus is much more than they are telling us and the numbers are being covered up or the so called "New World Order" conspiracy theories may hold some validity. Some of the politicians have even let the words slip out during their public addresses. We are not sure which or what it is but when the people are being lied to, most often times the best thing to do is the opposite of what the government is trying to get them to do.

Simply; why all the deceit and subterfuge?

Ozark75 · October-14-21 12:10

How disappointing.

Uncle_Lee · October-14-21 12:10

Looks like Facebook and Instagram.
What is deemed incorrect is not posted.
Grayelky's and my post are not there.

Maybe we will be banned from here.
If you don't hear from me,, that has happened.

I feel very strongly about this in the same manner I feel about our harry.

Canoeal · October-14-21 13:10

I too send my prayers for Grayelky and Bearcatter. May God comfort you.

This COVID19 thing is nothing to be messed with, and hard for us all
That being said, I always understood personal freedom/personal responsibility from a different teacher it seems. I was always taught the your personal freedom extends to you doing what ever you want, until you impact the lives of others. You are free to swing you arms as widely and hard as you want, until you contact another's face, then it is assault. You are free to make up stories and tell them, until you tell an untruth about anther person and that is slander. You can't shout fire in a crowded building (unless it is on fire) or you are risking a catastrophe.
Personal responsibility is just that; your responsibility as a member of society, to protect that society. There is no evidence that the vaccines have caused more than minimal reactions; they have not given anyone COVID; they can't. I have had COVID twice, long before there was a vaccine available And I drove 2 hours to get it when they became available (Pfizer; second one on March 30, 2020). No one implanted anything in me or marked me in any way.
Those that refuse to get the vaccine, are the ones where new strains are developing, not in the vaccinated. Those that refuse are the ones ending up in the hospital and dying. Time to end it; go get vaccinated. I will probably get heat for this, but having been on the doorstep of the hospital with COVID, oh well. JMHO

Oh and Uncle Lee free speech is not restricted if you own a business. As a business owner, Sunday School teacher and American citizen, I not only have a right but a responsibility to stand up for what is right, and to state my mind on all things.

Uncle_Lee · October-14-21 13:10

And the people who may be your customer have the right to be a customer or not.

No deaths from the vaccine?

"UPDATE #2: As of 6:30 PM CT on July 21, 2021, the CDC's website stated through July 19, 2021, VAERS had received 6,207 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. The CDC's webpage's Last Update date reflects July 21, 2021."

I will bet this number is lower than reality.

grayelky · October-14-21 15:10

Pietro wrote:
Please accept out condolences on your loss - I know it's devastating.

Aside from that, with all due respect, I side with Sandy - although I'm more disappointed, than disgusted.

After all, how many decades have folks been safely getting vaccinations ?

I know my vaccinations started over 75 years ago, when I was a toddler.

I suspect most others here started long ago, too.

I choose to do whatever it takes for our modern society to continue to function normally, but don't worry about things I can't control.

Via 'con Dios, all.....
Thank you, and everyone, for your prayers.
The area above in bold is my emphasis done solely for reference. Like you, I have been getting vaccinations for many years, maybe 68-70. Each of those were a vaccination. The Covid "vaccination" is not a true vaccination. Unlike the Covid shot, the vaccines we have been getting are tested, studied and tested some more, prior to being released for our use. How many pharmaceutical companies complain loudly about it taking no less than 5 and as many as 15 years to bring a new medicine to market, due to all the testing? ALL of them. This Covid shot was developed in months, and rushed to market. How can they be that certain it is safe when it has not been around long enough to be studied and tested? If it is as safe as "they" claim, then why was it necessary for a law to be passed making it impossible to file suit against anyone who produced a COVID vaccine? Are we supposed to trust our government? Like we did when Obama assured us the Bengazhi attack on our embassy, and the murder and mutilation of our ambassador was all because of a anti Muslim video. We all now know that was not true, and that the then President knew it when he was telling us the story. Just one of many examples of our government lying to us. Free "vaccine"? If by free they mean taxpayers footing the bill, then yes, there is no charge to get the shot. In the mean time, one of the companies producing the "vaccine" has posted a billion dollar profit for last year. Perhaps that is why Biden and other politicians are so anxious for EVERYONE to get the shot. We all know big business would never stoop so low as to pay off politicians.

I have another question for everyone's consideration: Why is it, if the liberal part of our country thinks something is good, then it is good, and everyone should do it. If it is bad, then no one should do it. If they don't like guns, then no one should have one. If they think the Covid shot is good, then EVERYONE should get it, irregardless of personal reservations, fears or even religious beliefs. When their wishes are not met, those going against them are bullied, verbally attacked, occasionally physically attacked, black listed and threatened with loosing their job if they do not comply. A large number have been fired for not getting the shot the liberals want everyone to have. If the conservative people like something and feel everyone should have one, that is where it stops. If you choose to not have one, then that is okay because it is your choice to get the item, or not. There is no bullying, name calling, blacklisting and certainly no one would be threatened with firing if they chose different, just because it was their choice. THAT is sufficient. Why can't we all just get along? Simple. The liberals want everyone to do things their way, and only their way. The conservatives would like to see it done their way, but they understand if there are some who do not.

Sandy has chosen to get the vaccine. Okay, as it is in fact his choice. Why does he deride everyone who does not? If the shot is as effective as claimed, then he and his family are safe. If someone chooses not to get the shot, then he can quietly celebrate the fact he was right, and they are now sick. Unfortunately, that is not the path he has chosen, and that is okay. I can tolerate him getting it, but he does not seem to tolerate anyone who does not. Someone mentioned he had bought his last NAA. While I strongly disagree with Sandy's outlook and his position, I honor his choice to make the decision. I will continue to buy the minis, and I will continue to sell them in my shop. I have, unfortunately, lost a good deal of respect for a gentleman I once admired.

Boisesteve · October-14-21 15:10

Grayelky:👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Like you said, most vaccines have taken a decade or longer to develop and test for safety. Other vaccines have been pulled with as few as 25 deaths caused. I read reports that for this one it is 110,,, to 14,000 vaccine deaths.
And I just heard the physician member of the local tri-county health board interviewed. He stated that for September, in Vermont (our most-vaccinated state), 76% of the covid-diagnosed deaths were in the vaccinated! Doesn?t sound like it was protecting those folks as well as advertised.
I do not support companies that are anti-firearm (https://www.ccrkba.org/antigunbusinesses).
I will also not be supporting companies that do not support my right to protect myself against unproven or dangerous therapies. Gotta think more about what to do here. I have been carrying a mini for over 35 years, but time moves on. Dunno....

grayelky · October-14-21 15:10

Quote from: Boisesteve on October-14-21 15:10
Grayelky:👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Like you said, most vaccines have taken a decade or longer to develop and test for safety. Other vaccines have been pulled with as few as 25 deaths caused. I read reports that for this one it is 110,,, to 14,000 vaccine deaths.
And I just heard the physician member of the local tri-county health board interviewed. He stated that for September, in Vermont (our most-vaccinated state), 76% of the covid-diagnosed deaths were in the vaccinated! Doesn?t sound like it was protecting those folks as well as advertised.
I do not support companies that are anti-firearm (https://www.ccrkba.org/antigunbusinesses).
I will also not be supporting companies that do not support my right to protect myself against unproven or dangerous therapies. Gotta think more about what to do here. I have been carrying a mini for over 35 years, but time moves on. Dunno....

Since the one you carry is already paid for, I would suggest you either continue to use it, or send it to me and I will deal with it. The part about what to do as to supporting North American Arms or no longer buying their products, well, that is an individual decision each of us has to make. Me? I continue to support everyone's right to choose, and will not bully them for their choice, even if it is different from mine.

Boisesteve · October-14-21 16:10

Thanks for the offer of help Gray, but here in Idaho I can sell it myself if I decide I am done with it.
Problem is, nothing that I know of is as compact as the mini for the power it carries. I may decide to continue as is despite Sandy telling me what to do.
My right to protect myself from dangers as I measure them has me carrying a mini and also avoiding this mislabeled vaccine.

Canoeal · October-14-21 16:10

"And the people who may be your customer have the right to be a customer or not. "

That is true, as all actions have the potential for consequences. As a business owner, I am not crass or impolite or crude. If however, I have an honest opinion, I am free to speak my mind. To the best of my knowledge no one ever stopped a purchase because they did not like my position on some other topic.

BTW most of the founding fathers were business owners; think on that.

bearcatter · October-14-21 16:10

I can't agree with Sandy's position, but he has the right to express it. I'm not going to blackball the entire company because of it. There are many skilled and innovative people who work there. I would imagine that those people have a mixed opinion on the subject, as you'll find anywhere else. I've known several people who have changed their mind back and forth over the months.

Sandy is the final say on products and the chief check writer. But he is not a one man show. Let's give all of NAA some positive credit and support..

Canoeal · October-14-21 16:10

Agreed.

Ozark75 · October-14-21 17:10

I just re-read his soapbox. He was down right rude and disrepectful. Regardless of where one lands on an issue, one should be respectful of others who may land on the other side. And the comments he made about family and NAA emoloyees...wow.

heyjoe · October-14-21 20:10

i miss the old days when you could know or work with someone for years and not know their politics and no one cared.

theysayimnotme · October-15-21 02:10

Quote from: uncle_lee on October-14-21 13:10
And the people who may be your customer have the right to be a customer or not.

No deaths from the vaccine?

"UPDATE #2: As of 6:30 PM CT on July 21, 2021, the CDC's website stated through July 19, 2021, VAERS had received 6,207 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. The CDC's webpage's Last Update date reflects July 21, 2021."

I will bet this number is lower than reality.

I doubt the report says the vaccine CAUSED the deaths. I have had the two shots plus I have O neg blood which provides extra protection & I may still get another shot but probably not for quite a while. Hell I didn't like all those shots they gave me in the army but I got them, DON"T BE SUCH A BABY!

Uncle_Lee · October-15-21 03:10

I'll just cool off awhile.

heyjoe · October-15-21 08:10

Quote from: uncle_lee on October-15-21 03:10
I'll just cool off awhile.

Good counsel to ourselves in many matters in life.

I have had both shots, and will get the booster eventually, but even I think that that soapbox was way over the top. The only contemptible people to me are the ones who lie about something when they know that what they are saying is a lie.

Nobody agrees with anyone about everything. We all have our differences, but I think we all have much more in common than our differences.

OV-1D · October-15-21 09:10

Thanks HeyJoe thats level headed thinking for all of us .

Boisesteve · October-15-21 10:10

I?ve thought hard about this one: I no longer pocket carry, and belt carry allows a small .38 revolver to work just fine.
Yeah, I reread his soapbox too. In actuality, he needs me and people who think like me more than I need him or the products of his company. HE HAS CONTEMPT FOR ME??!! That is what he said in his soapbox. Well, you know what they are chanting at football games these days? Insert Sandy in place of Joe Biden.

gadget · October-15-21 12:10

Sandy has a new post up in his soapbox

Boisesteve · October-15-21 13:10

Thanks for the heads-up, Gadget.
Well, Sandy is trying, but he is still wrong on his premise that we can jab (I will not call it vaccinate because it is not a vaccine) our way out of the Covid mess. Unlike smallpox, which as I have heard it explained has a complex route into the cell and is an obligate human virus so can be combatted with a vaccine, Covid easily attacks the cells and also is endemic in the environment. Cats carry it, dogs carry it, and the virus has been tested and found in the environment on samples of oil. You cannot jab your way out of this one, it is here to stay and is everywhere and you can choose to take the jab with the attendant risks it carries for what protection it offers or take a chance on catching the virus and then running an over 99% chance of surviving it if you do get it.
If one carries extra pounds and/or has elevated blood sugar issues, I read that the risk/benefit balance makes taking the jab a risk worth taking. If one is younger, active, trim, and not diabetic, well then mebbe not. My neighbor is 85, physically fit and active and unvaccinated. He was tested at a doctor appointment and told he had Covid and had to quarantine for two weeks. He had no idea he was anything but his usual healthy self, was not symptomatic and has never become so. I side with him.

PS Pfizer currently has 92 lobbyists in Washington, D.C.
Johnson & Johnson has 67
Merck has 53
Gilead has 46
Natural immunity has zero.

Bj · October-15-21 14:10

Just my thoughts. I had the two dose Pfizer vaccine in Feb/Mar. Then I got the Covid delta variant in July. It was real nasty although I did not need to go to a hospital. I was starting to feel very slightly better by the time I got the test and a day latter the positive result so I turned down getting an antibody infusion. My wife thought I just had a bad cold, I felt it was worse than that. Then more recently based on my doctor?s advice I got the Pfizer booster.

I went by my doctor?s advice for all of it. For myself I think way too many people are making decisions about the vaccine on their own instead of talking to their doctor about it.

My opinion is that more widespread acceptance of the vaccine could maybe (guessing) have greatly slowed down the spread and the additional variations. But now, to me, it looks like it is not going to ever go away.

I support an individuals right to decide about wearing a mask or getting the vaccine. That being said, someone sitting next to me without the vaccine and without a mask is to some extent not only risking their own health but mine also. At this point with both the vaccine and natural immunity I am not worried about it.

How sick I was with the delta variant, if the vaccine lessened the severity as they say, then I am very glad I got the vaccine. Younger people without the vaccine seem to have it much worse in some cases.

bearcatter · October-15-21 14:10

I've posted a reply to Sandy's new, and friendlier, Soapbox. I'm re-posting here, since the Soapbox rarely gets much apparent attention.

"Well, that's an improvement, anyway. Here's my thoughts, on the other side of the fence. Unless our ever trustworthy government and flip flop Fauci are lying (gee, what's the odds on that?) the multi-vaccinated have nothing to fear. Except break-through infection. Except the thousands of side-effects reported, some serious, some permanent, some fatal. Some could take six months to a year to occur. None of the vaccines have long term effectiveness, so then what, a bi-annual shot forever, with the same risks?

I'll take my chance with natural immunity, which is actually admitted to probably be permanent. I believe I've already had a fairly mild case, due to an episode I had several months back. The virus has 98% survival, but the 2% is mostly due to those with poor health and weak immune systems. For them, the vaccine may be worth the risk, maybe not, their decision."

Done, and done.

bearcatter · October-15-21 15:10

Sandy didn't really get into the political side, but I have a major concern there.

Why is the government so damned desperate for everyone to get the shot? Using every scare tactic, bribes, threats to our jobs, even arrest. What is the hidden agenda? What is the truth? I can think of a dozen possibilities, some pretty far-fetched, but still not to be put past the current smoke and mirror White House.

Boisesteve · October-15-21 15:10

Bearcat, read (written by an Israeli, about his experience with the jab there):
https://gatesofvienna.net/2021/02/31-reasons-why-i-wont-take-the-vaccine/

bearcatter · October-15-21 16:10

Excellent. He could have condensed it a little, but it's well worth the extra time to read. Three main points; it's technically not a vaccine, it's still very experimental, and you have to sign a release.