Mini mag mag cylinder questions

[woodchuckssuck]

I was shooting my new Mini Mag today, and the LR cyl worked flawless with Fed. #510 ammo, accuracy is about what I would expect. Had lots of fun with .22lr out of it!  

   

   Then I switched over to .22mag CCI Maxi Mag HP (standard maxi mag) and problems started. The cylinder pin kept popping out every few rounds, and had to be pushed back in in order to cock fully. This would be BAD in a defense situation. I also experienced one FTF in CCI (fired on second strike) and a bunch of FTF with Winchester SuperX JHP rounds. The winchester, however, did not cause cylinder pin to pop out.  

   

   Also, my hand got rather dirty from powder residue, is this normal? Like a held my hand above a candle black soot that wouldnt just rub off.  

   

   I shot 50 rounds of .22lr and then about 30-35 of .22mag after. Could it have just been dirty from the LR? The cylinder pin seems to hold in real well otherwise.  

   

   Thanks!

[lohman446]

From what I have heard some of the cylinder pins have had issues - call NAA and they will help you resolve (from what I have seen it has been a new cylinder pin.  I have not had this issue with mine but have not tried CCI either.  I did note my very first shot with my mini-mag was Winchester Super and it failed to ignite (the first rimfire failure I have had in a long time), have not had any other faults with a rimfire in a long time

[woodchuckssuck]

I will have to give NAA a call tomorrow then, It was weird to only have it happen with CCI and not the Winchester, which are about equal in power. Possibly  the cci powder has a sharper pressure curve? The detent ball does look a bit over-staked in its hole in the cylinder pin, that could possibly be the cause.  

   

   The little gun was an outright riot with LR, I really only care about the Magnum for carry purposes, as its too expensive to shoot all the time. Fixing the cylinder pin issue would take care of it, because I prefer CCI ammunition anyway

[bama22]

W.  I have a gun like yours, I have not had a problem with the cylinder pin, but this is a problem that has been discussed on the forum. Go to "NAA Products" thread index and scroll down to "Last Post" date of 10-26-2010 and see the thread "Problem with cylinder pin popping out".

   

   If your gun is new, NAA could possibly send you a new pin. If your gun has to go back to Utah, ask them for a prepaid UPS label. NAA customer service people are top notch.  

   

   Good luck, and welcome to the forum.

[woodchuckssuck]

Thanks, Bama22, I read that post and most of the responses, and I WILL be calling NAA in the morning, well around 11 or so so they are open...  

   

   I think it could in fact be the detent ball being improperly staked, It doesn't take as much to stake a detent ball in as my cylinder pin has.  

   

   I REALLY like the gun otherwise, It shoots decent for what it has (front sight only) and any BG within 7 yards should be an easy hit to COM.  

   

   And, I will ask for a UPS label if they really have to have the firearm back, I just bought the thing, there is no way I am going to pay for it to go back.  

   

   I guess I will stick to the Winchester .22mags and .22LR for now, According to NAA's ballistics, these Winchester rounds move faster than the CCI anyway!  

   

   

   Any ideas on the hand being covered with soot after shooting? Mostly the top of the hand web and trigger finger... Figured that is just a drawback of shooting a tiny gun with a generous cylinder gap.

[coinchop]

When you shoot a gun that small you can't  

   help getting your hand black.

   When you go home with a black hand after

   shooting a mini, you know you had fun....

[woodchuckssuck]

Coinchop: Thanks, I figured that. Couple times I had my hands a bit too close to the cylinder gap, you can feel the percussion wave coming out of it. Yikes!  

   

   I just called and the lady said to send in the cylinder pin and they will replace it and if that does not work I will need to send in the whole gun.  

   

   Just bought it and its already going to be out of commission for at LEAST a week. Oh well, at least they will take care of it.  

   

   The cylinder pin does wiggle about 1/32" or so back and forth, telling me that it isn't locking in properly. Or, do they not lock in tight against the receiver? I would think they should...

   

   I guess I will get it shipped off to them, the faster I do the faster it gets back. Probably just got one with their faulty cylinder pins, I sure hope! No shooting it for a while though Guess I will have to take my 1911 out

[redhawk4]

Shame they couldn't just have sent you a new cylinder pin to try and you could have kept the original in the meantime. They probably want to see what the issue is with the original.

   

   Frustrating though

[woodchuckssuck]

Yes, very frustrating, hopefully the new pin I get makes things work good I think its a really poor design as it is, but it seems to work...mostly.  

   

   I'm still betting on mine was staked improperly, because it shoved the detent ball to the rear of the cylinder pin, if it had been shoved to the front, it would have been a much more solid lockup without the play, IMO.  

   

   I will allow the company to try and make good with my cylinder pin. Hopefully they hand pick a pin to send back, one that (to them) looks staked properly. I have doubts this one was, the ball really didn't stick up out of the pin much, I should have taken a picture. But I wanted to get the thing in the mail asap.  You could not pull the pin out, but I think recoil forces make it pop out if the ball isn't as far into the detent hole as possible. Hopefully I just got one of their cylinder pins that was in the defective lot and a new one makes her good as new. I would be totally satisfied with the gun then

[lohman446]

You might ask this option.  See if you can buy a new cylinder pin (I think there cheap).  If it works see if they will then refund the money when you send back the old one.

[woodchuckssuck]

The cylinder pin its on its way. If they know its faulty I feel they will carefully choose another, if I just buy one they might just grab one and ship it.  

   

   They cost $25 + $7 shipping. $32 out of my pocket even temporarily - not gonna happen. $32 is not "cheap" to me. Not for what it is.  

   

   I will let them take a look at mine and send me a replacement part. If that doesnt work...I will send it back only if they send a pre-paid mailer.  

   

   I am keeping my hopes up that a simple cylinder pin fixes it and I am a happy NAA customer...

[grayelky]

For future reference, I strongly suspect if you have stopped just short of insisting, they would have sent the replacement and then allowed you to return the defective one. They are really easy to work with, especially considering you have a new gun.

[woodchuckssuck]

Grayelky, I e-mailed Jessica and she said she would gladly send out the new cylinder pin. I guess I was a bit tired yesterday and not thinking (I had just woken up I think).

   

   That is good customer service, IMO. She also let me know the leather pocket holster I ordered was already shipped - I had mentioned that if it hadn't shipped yet the cylinder pin could be included with the holster to save shipping...  

   

   Now I am excited, soon I will have a holster to carry and hopefully a fully functional .22mag Mini to  put in it!

[grayelky]

I am nearly 60. I have dealt with a lot of companies on a variety of warranty problems in my life time. WITHOUT EXCEPTION, North American Arms is the easiest, friendliest most satisfying company I have ever dealt with. There are several good gun companies I have dealt with, especially since I bought my gun shop. NAA remains the best to do business with.

[woodchuckssuck]

Kel-Tec is right up there with NAA as well, from the dealing I have had with both. Shooting sports is one of the overall nicest sports out there, I think

[lohman446]

I called Kel-tec to ask about a warranty return once on a P3AT.  The gentleman I got may have been having a bad day but rather than explaining repair procedure to me he insisted I hunt down the manual.  I asked repeatedly and was told to refer to the manual.  The manual is now sitting on top of the gun that had an unacceptable failure (the part of the frame that holds the hammer spring is broken off) in my safe and I take nearly every chance I have to tell the story.

[45flint]

It is interesting to me that people criticized the Earl because they thought it was silly to have the historic ball rammer be the retention lever for the cylinder pin. If you look at the Earl that pin is going nowhere even if the lever is not serving its historic purpose.  

   steve

[woodchuckssuck]

Lohman, call Kel-Tec again. Ask for parts/service. Tell them its broke and you want it repaired. Then send it in with a nice note. I bet it gets returned fixed instead of you giving up after one try. If the frame is broke, they will replace it with a new one with your serial number on it and destroy the old frame. Try it and see what happens.

   

   45flint: I agree, the "Earl" has a far more positive cylinder pin retainment system, I own a Pietta 1858 Remington repro, with that kind of system, it works great.  Not silly at all!

   

   My cylinder  pin will be shipped out tomorrow. The holster arrived today, and while it was a bit lighter weight leather than I expected, it looks like it is going to do just what I need, without much bulk.

[jim]

I had the exact same situation with the exact same setup as you when I first got it. the next few trips to the range it worked just fine with no more pin popping out. give it a few more trips to the range for some break in time before you send it back.

[woodchuckssuck]

If you read the previous posts, its already been sent back, and NAA is sending out another tomorrow. Why risk screwing up my gun when it has a lifetime warranty? Or worse, having an out of battery round go off potentially causing personal harm?  

   

   No Thanks.

[grayelky]

Lohman446-

   Call KelTec again, relate to them the story you related to us. They will fix it, no questions asked. If you read their manual, it says the warranty is to the original owner. They will NEVER ask if you are the original owner. I sent them a P40 that has been out of production for close to if not over 10 years (I am the original owner!). It was repaired and returned promptly. They are one of the few that will keep NAA on its toes for being the best. Like you surmise, someone was just having a bad day. Or an S&W rep snuck in to answer phones that day......

[cedarview kid]

Agreed on what Gray says. I first joined KTOG (Kel-Tec Owners Group) in about 1998, around the same time I joined the NAA board. They are my two favorite gun companies for service. And, NAA and Kel-Tec are the only gun companies for which I've met and chatted with the company owners.

   

   I still have 3 Kel-tecs, but almost 30 NAA's, so you can see which one I've favored. I plan to add a fourth Kel-tec with the introduction of the .22Magnum auto, tho. (I've also sold one Kel-tec and two Grendels. I've never sold an NAA.)

   

   Dar

[tocsn40]

ha I would lovee to hear how the Kel-tecs 22 mag auto works out I would love to have a 22 mag auto

[cedarview kid]

I own an AMT Automag II, which is a .22Magnum. It had a bent firing pin, however, and I took it to a gunsmith to have it repaired. I haven't shot it since I've got it home.

   

   I've also had a Grendel P30, also a .22Magnum autoloader handgun, designed by the guy who started Kel-Tec, but I didn't have good luck with it, so I sold it.

   

   I'm hoping the new Kel-Tec has some of the kinks worked out.

[jim]

if the pin pops out, you can't cock the gun. if you can't cock it, you can't fire it. if you can't fire it, how is it going to fire out of battery? how are you going to screw it up exactly?

[woodchuckssuck]

I got the new pin today (well, tonight) when I got home from work. The detent ball looks like it sticks out a bit further, and the staking does look a little better as well.  

   

   Hopefully it works. Not sure when I will get to the range, maybe not till Monday (its on the way to work). I also might be getting out and about tomorrow, maybe I will pick up some different .22mag ammo as well to try, The Hornady vmax rounds look nice...I want to find some FMJ as well, since most tests look to show HP ammo out of these guns do not do much for expansion.

   

   Kudos to NAA for making this a rather quick process! I hope to heck this fixes my gun, because I really like it!  

   

   I will say the leather holster I bought from them is made out of thin leather, but its fine for what it is. It is leather, after all, and it should last and work fine.  

   

   Thanks for the help/suggestions. I just hope its fixed now!