Guardians barrel swap

OLD and GRUMPY · August-14-22 04:08

With 25NAA and 32NAA ammo hard to find making those Guardians almost useless could the barrels be swapped out making them 32ACP and 380ACP? I would like to have one but not chambered in a round I can't get.

smokeless joe · August-14-22 05:08

Don?t they make one chambered in 380?

Rick_Jorgenson · August-14-22 06:08

The two "common" calibers that the Guardian is available in are .380acp and .32acp

The "Large Frame" Guardian is .380acp the "Small Frame" is .32acp

If you were to find the other two caliber guns, the large frame is .32naa and the small frame is .25naa (once in a while I'll see one on Gunbroker.com usually the .32naa and rarely a .25naa)

The ammo is available through NAA (someone else is making it for them.)

And the good news is, the reloading die sets for both .32naa and .25naa are available from CH4D
https://www.ch4d.com

Since the barrel is part of the frame I would think it would not be worth the time and money spent IF it were possible (JMHO)

theysayimnotme · August-14-22 13:08

Seems unlikely you could replace the barrel but it might be possible to rechamber them.

bearcatter · August-14-22 13:08

Guardian barrels are part of the frame, but I've seen that stated wrong.

The .32 ACP could be rechambered for the .32 NAA, but the frame would be wrong, probably too narrow for a .380 magazine, and it wouldn't fit a .380 slide so the extractor would be wrong,

For the .25 NAA you'd need a .25 ACP gun to rechamber for .25 NAA. Slide still wouldn't be right, extractor wouldn't work.

The magazines might not work either.

bearcatter · August-14-22 13:08

Quote from: Rick_Jorgenson on August-14-22 06:08

The ammo is available through NAA (someone else is making it for them.)

I didn't know that was a done deal, I thought they were still negotiating....

OLD and GRUMPY · August-14-22 13:08

This was just a idea I had before first coffee. (never think before coffee) If it could be done it would turn a gun with hard to get ammo in to a shooter. Someone must have a Guardian they are tired of not finding ammo for. I was looking at the S&W Shield in the new Fed .30 super carry. Like the gun. Like the stats on the round but will end up with a gun chambered in a round that may not catch on. My LGS looked for a .380 guardian but didn't find any. Went with the LCP Max. This is what is in our Guardians. I see what you say about the barrel being part of the frame. https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/north-american/guardian-2 Lets see what I think up before coffee in the morning!

bearcatter · August-14-22 14:08

You had already replied, but after I looked at my Guardian, I had to edit my post about swapping barrels. I hadn't listed all the things that wouldn't work....

Rick_Jorgenson · August-14-22 17:08

Quote from: OLD and GRUMPY on August-14-22 13:08
This was just a idea I had before first coffee. (never think before coffee) If it could be done it would turn a gun with hard to get ammo in to a shooter. Someone must have a Guardian they are tired of not finding ammo for. I was looking at the S&W Shield in the new Fed .30 super carry. Like the gun. Like the stats on the round but will end up with a gun chambered in a round that may not catch on. My LGS looked for a .380 guardian but didn't find any. Went with the LCP Max. This is what is in our Guardians. I see what you say about the barrel being part of the frame. https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/north-american/guardian-2 Lets see what I think up before coffee in the morning!

Ask those that bought guns for the .327 Federal ammo how often they shoot or, even carry them. Several have told me the ammo is tough to find and/or expensive.

This .380 Guardian is listed on Gunbroker.com at $300.00 no box and only one magazine (seems like a good deal)

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/938701606

Several on Gunbroker are priced in the $400.00 range

Since learning more about the Guardians over the last few years I've wanted a .25naa and the .32naa The challenge of finding them and then the "ammo thing"

just made me want them more! I knew that if I could get the dies for reloading and/or getting brass or making brass to fit, it might be kind of fun! (I know, I'm weird)

I missed a .25naa on Gunbroker a couple of years ago for $200.00 but our favorite Uncle_Lee came through when he decided to "thin the herd" and had quite a few guns on my want list

None of the Guardians have made it to the range yet. I'll post photos when I do.

bearcatter · August-14-22 17:08

Both of mine came through Davidson's (Gallery Of Guns). About $360 out the door, two years ago. MSRP was $409, $430 now.

I'd like the challenge of breaking in a new Guardian .22 LR.....

theysayimnotme · August-15-22 14:08

When I said rechamber them I meant the .25 NAA to .32 ACP & .32 NAA to .380. Of course the barrels would also have to be bored out. That's assuming there is enough metal to do that. I suspect the factory could do it rather easily.

bearcatter · August-15-22 16:08

So you mean to bore out the chambers and bores of the weird caliber guns into the normal calibers? I suppose that would work. You'd have the right size frame and the extractors would still line up. I don't think the magazines were any different, and they would be going into the same grip frame.
Redo the chamber and bore, and seems the only thing wrong would be the caliber name lasered onto the slide. I think.... $:-\$
Maybe NAA could offer that to people who bought the NAA caliber guns in good faith, only to find themselves with almost paperweights. If I had a NAA ammo Guardian, I'd be willing to pay a reasonable price to make it "normal".
I find my .32 ACPs are hard enough to feed.

Rick_Jorgenson · August-16-22 08:08

Quote from: bearcatter on August-15-22 16:08
So you mean to bore out the chambers and bores of the weird caliber guns into the normal calibers? I suppose that would work. You'd have the right size frame and the extractors would still line up. I don't think the magazines were any different, and they would be going into the same grip frame.
Redo the chamber and bore, and seems the only thing wrong would be the caliber name lasered onto the slide. I think.... $:-\$
Maybe NAA could offer that to people who bought the NAA caliber guns in good faith, only to find themselves with almost paperweights. If I had a NAA ammo Guardian, I'd be willing to pay a reasonable price to make it "normal".
I find my .32 ACPs are hard enough to feed.

The ammo is available through NAA

And, reloading is always an option! lol!!

There were so few of the NAA proprietary caliber guns made that maybe most of them are in the bottom of "grandpa's" gun safe!

Or.... as you said, on someones desk as a "paperweight" lol!!

bearcatter · August-16-22 11:08

I can't find any NAA ammo on the website? Are both calibers available? Are the prices competitive? Right now .32 ACP FMJ is running $28-36 / 50 rounds. I can understand NAA being higher.

ATF figures don't separate NAA guns from the others, but somewhere I read an estimate of around 600 total of both. Wonder how many of each?

If I had a NAA caliber Guardian, I'd want enough now to last my projected lifetime need, before it disappears again. The "fool me twice, shame on me" situation. I would expect the supplier to only make one run, based on probable sales.

bill_deshivs · August-16-22 11:08

A good gunsmith could probably shim the chambers to take the original-sized ammunition.

bearcatter · August-16-22 13:08

The extractors wouldn't line up.

bill_deshivs · August-16-22 19:08

Many guns used the same slide, extractor and magazine for the same model guns in .32 and .380 calibers.

theysayimnotme · August-17-22 14:08

Caused me to wonder how similar are the Seecamps. The .25, .32 & .380 all appear to be about the same size & weight. Are they all based on the same frame?

bearcatter · August-17-22 15:08

The .25 was the original Seecamp in 1981. The .32 replaced it in 1986, and I think the .380 was added in 1999. IIRC, all three guns are the same size but the frames and slides aren't identical.
Compared to the Guardian, the only thing I like about the Seecamp is that it has one grip screw going all the way through. Whoopee.

Canoeal · August-17-22 20:08

Quote from: bearcatter on August-17-22 15:08
The .25 was the original Seecamp in 1981. The .32 replaced it in 1986, and I think the .380 was added in 1999. IIRC, all three guns are the same size but the frames and slides aren't identical.
Compared to the Guardian, the only thing I like about the Seecamp is that it has one grip screw going all the way through. Whoopee.

No bias there...

bearcatter · August-17-22 21:08

I studied both inside and out. The Seecamp has a lot of negatives. Guardian isn't perfect but a big improvement.

Right now there's a pair of consecutive serial 32 Seecamps on GB for two grand. Crazy.

grayelky · September-20-22 04:09

Swapping calibers is kinda easy on some guns. Lately, I have been considering getting a new KelTec P3AT and ordering a new .32 ACP barrel for it. Have my gunsmith order a chamber reamer in 32 NAA. I see no reason this would not be a simple barrel swap for caliber change. Hopefully pick up a little performance with a little less recoil. Maybe. Always go back to the 380 ACP if ammo was a problem. Or, order 2 32 barrels and have 3 calibers to shoot in the same platform.😎

Every now and then a pretty decent Beretta 380 will show up in the shop. I look around, trying to find a 32 ACP barrel for it, but so far the barrel has eluded me. Again, all that would be needed would be a chamber reamer and a gunsmight to make the caliber swap. I suspect a 13 shot 32 NAA would make a very nice little defense gun for someone who is not ?gun savvy?. Added weight would be an asset in taming recoil, and the 13 round capacity would instill a little more confidence in their chances.

bearcatter · September-20-22 08:09

I didn't know the 3AT and P32 had the same barrel, except the bore.I did know that a Beretta or two came in both calibers. I've seen one on GB with both barrels. There's an HK pistol that came in sets to convert it to 22, 32, 380, and IIRC 9mm.
The Zastavas I have are made in both 32 and 380, but they have never imported the 380. I'd just need a barrel and mag, 5 minute job, but I wouldn't want to.

grayelky · September-20-22 17:09

I have not checked the P32 against the P3AT yet, but I suspect they are the same. I know the P32 has changed since I bought mine, many, many years ago. There was a company who made a run of 32 NAA barrels for the Ruger LCP, but they were sold out by the time I learned about them. They did not seem like a second production would be made.

Uncle_Lee · September-21-22 06:09

Quote from: bearcatter on September-20-22 08:09
I didn't know the 3AT and P32 had the same barrel, except the bore.I did know that a Beretta or two came in both calibers. I've seen one on GB with both barrels. There's an HK pistol that came in sets to convert it to 22, 32, 380, and IIRC 9mm.
The Zastavas I have are made in both 32 and 380, but they have never imported the 380. I'd just need a barrel and mag, 5 minute job, but I wouldn't want to.

HK-4 is the one that came in 4 caliber conversion set. 22, 25, 32, & 380
I have wanted one of those for a very long time.
The last set that I saw went for $2502.00

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/940992455

grayelky · September-21-22 06:09

uncle_lee-
Right up there with you. I used to drool at the thought of getting that HK set up. Now, just no point. Oh well.

Uncle_Lee · September-21-22 06:09

I could rub it, oil it, wipe it with a nice soft cloth, and say "it is mine now".
I couldn't shoot it because I can't pull a slide back any more. At least on the ones that I have tried. I can't even start the slide back on my 32 Guardian.

bearcatter · September-21-22 13:09

Uncle Lee, I mis-remembered .25. Thanks !

I've seen them as 2 caliber sets and 4 caliber sets. The 2 caliber sets seem to all have .22.

There was a .22 - .32 set on GB a while back that was tempting. I think it went for $1400. I'd bet if it was 380 it would have been higher.