NAA Mini .22 Short for Self Defense?

Gun1 · April-10-23 07:04

I really like the miniature size of the NAA Mini .22 short. I know the Pug or WMG Mini NAA are more powerful, but the miniature size of the NAA Mini in .22 shirt just can't be beat. So, I'm wondering what you guys think. Is it any good for defensive purposes? There's some ballistic tests out there for the .22 Mini LR and for the Pug and .22 Mini WMG that show these minis fall within FBI recommended penetration with the right ammo, but I haven't found anything with the .22 Mini short. Can it also fill that role, or is the .22 Mini short more at home completing a collection?

bearcatter · April-10-23 08:04

From the numbers I remember, 22 Short is about 30% "short" of 22 LR performance. Only if I absolutely had to have a tiny carry. ...

top dog · April-10-23 09:04

GUN1,
I agree with Bearcatter but must say do not dismiss that short as a viable option.

A couple of years ago,I took my Mini in 22 short out for a test.

From a distance of 2 feet,the round went through 4 layers of soup can steel.

No bad person wants to be shot with anything. And usually,after the first shot............quickly disperse.

Top Dog

OV-1D · April-10-23 09:04

Theres a movie " Assassination Tango " starring Robert Duvall , he uses a either a NAA short or long rifle on his quarry up real close and personable . Good movie even , fine looking women in this flick also .

bill_deshivs · April-10-23 10:04

Is it good for defensive purposes?
No, but the short mini can be carried easier than any other pistol.

.22 short high velocity ammunition is not as weak as most people think. It actually is more ballistically efficient than long rifle out of the mini's 1" barrel.

I carried a short mini revolver for years, and shot it extensively. Penetration is better than you would think.

Learning to shoot the little gun is a challenge, though.

bearcatter · April-10-23 15:04

Quote from: top dog on April-10-23 09:04

From a distance of 2 feet,the round went through 4 layers of soup can steel.

Top Dog

Two feet? TWO feet? ...

top dog · April-11-23 09:04

Bearcatter,
Yup,........................2 feet distance

Top Dog

bearcatter · April-11-23 09:04

Your arm is longer than that ... That's how I used to shoot targets to show the Occaisionally Better Half when I got home ...

franco22 · April-11-23 15:04

You're kidding. right?

bearcatter · April-11-23 15:04

Quote from: franco22 on April-11-23 15:04
You're kidding. right?

Top dog's 2 feet or my cheating targets? I actually just did the point blank target joke once, she knew I wasn't that good ...

OLD and GRUMPY · April-12-23 06:04

I would try the short Mini on for size before buying. I gave up my LR mini because In my big hands the trigger fell in the 1st finger joint and I could not pull the trigger. Not a problem at the range but in a panic draw I could not trust it. I know bigger grips would fix that but that defeats the entire point of SMALL. I now have the mag frame and buckets of 22 shorts to practice with.

OV-1D · April-12-23 07:04

Quote from: bearcatter on April-11-23 15:04
Quote from: franco22 on April-11-23 15:04
You're kidding. right?

Top dog's 2 feet or my cheating targets? I actually just did the point blank target joke once, she knew I wasn't that good ...

Here Bear . In case you run out of ammo .

Woops !! Forgot to take the pencil away .

bearcatter · April-12-23 07:04

.

bleak_window · April-12-23 10:04

You are wasting most of that target, bearcarrer.

bearcatter · April-12-23 12:04

...

.....That's why they make these stickers - you can have 6-8 POAs on the same paper target, even copy paper or paper plates. Easier to see than a Sharpie "X". You can stick them on Bud Light cans...

They come in different sizes, I use 1 inch. Sometimes I stick them on new targets to make the bull easier see.

OV-1D · April-12-23 12:04

OH !! I thought this is one of those pictures you have to find something hiding in it .

Or Is it ??

Gun1 · April-13-23 02:04

Quote from: bearcatter on April-12-23 07:04

. . . . . . . . .

Was this with a .22 Short mini?

bearcatter · April-13-23 08:04

I have no idea, I stole the pic. Does look like .22 holes from a Short distance. Pun intended ......

OV-1D · April-13-23 08:04

Yeah,,,,, somebody's fibbing .

Gun1 · April-13-23 08:04

Quote from: bearcatter on April-13-23 08:04
I have no idea, I stole the pic. Does look like .22 holes from a Short distance. Pun intended ......

Lol, I was impressed by your marksmanship.

bearcatter · April-13-23 09:04

Quote from: Gun1 on April-13-23 08:04
Quote from: bearcatter on April-13-23 08:04
I have no idea, I stole the pic. Does look like .22 holes from a Short distance. Pun intended ......

Lol, I was impressed by your marksmanship.

Ha ha, don't I wish. My scoped rifle can do 2 inches at 25 yards. Guardians, I might do 5 inches at 7 yards. My other handguns 3 inch at 50 feet, I always get a flyer....or two. ..

Right now I'm out of practice with the handguns, so add 50%. ..

top dog · April-14-23 15:04

Bearcatter,
I hope you can get to the range soon to get in the practice.

I am sure that the groups will shrink dramatically.

Top Dog

bearcatter · April-14-23 16:04

The first measurements are average for me. The "50% extra" will go away with a little work. At least for now I can put someone's eye out with the rifle.

Twainman · April-30-23 21:04

to Old and Grumpy:

"I know bigger grips would fix that but that defeats the entire point of SMALL." I feel silly mentioning this because by your history and as hinted by your handle, you are nothing if not venerable on this forum, but have you tried the Magnum folding grip? Keeps the small profile, but the unfolded grip fills the hand and give secure contact with the trigger.

OLD and GRUMPY · May-01-23 04:05

Not as grumpy

as before but much older

. The grips you talk about used to be called "Floppy Wobblers" by some. I have not shot them but have played with them several times in the gun shops.They feel very good. I think they are mag frame only? Won't fit the short or LR? They do add a small amount of bulk.Mag frame fits my hand fine as is. Can you believe it's 4 am and I posted this on only 1/4 cup of coffee? Not as grumpy as before.

pietro · May-01-23 06:05

.

YMMV, but IMO the .22S Mini is a "get off me" gun, made for close quarter scuffles - devastating with a contact ( or near contact) shot to the chest (heart) or head.

That said, my CCW ( a.22Mag BW w/birdshead grips) isn't very much harder to hide than my .22S Mini - so I opt for the more powerful chambering

top dog · May-01-23 08:05

Pietro,
I agree with you. My BW is always with me.

The 22 mag round is,according to the late Bill Jordan,a "wicked little cartridge"

But in all honesty,I would not want to be shot with a 22 short either. (or anything else for that matter)

Top Dog

Canoeal · May-01-23 11:05

Yep whenever I can the BW is with me, if it does not pocket right it is the Wasp...with a solid hammer.

top dog · May-01-23 15:05

Canoeal,
Nice choices there!!!

Top Dog

dendrig59 · July-08-23 10:07

Quote from: Gun1 on April-10-23 07:04
I really like the miniature size of the NAA Mini .22 short. I know the Pug or WMG Mini NAA are more powerful, but the miniature size of the NAA Mini in .22 shirt just can't be beat. So, I'm wondering what you guys think. Is it any good for defensive purposes? There's some ballistic tests out there for the .22 Mini LR and for the Pug and .22 Mini WMG that show these minis fall within FBI recommended penetration with the right ammo, but I haven't found anything with the .22 Mini short. Can it also fill that role, or is the .22 Mini short more at home completing a collection?

I believe in using data to decide what to carry for self defense, rather than relying on recommendations from others. Unfortunately, when it comes to civilian self defense shooting incidents, reliable data is hard to come by. One of the better sources of information that I could find was a 2011 study by Greg Ellifritz of over 1600 shooting incidents collected over a 10 year period. This information is pretty easy to find. Just Google "Greg Ellifritz" and you will find it. Note however that Ellifritz is not a social scientist and his collection methodology is probably not scientifically valid. Therefore his information should be regarded as anecdotal, and used with caution.

With that in mind, what his data shows is that civilians who use a gun for self defense are successful at stopping the attack about 80% of the time. Most importantly, the data shows no significant difference in success rate based on the caliber of the weapon used. In other words, a .22 is just as good as anything else at stopping the attacker. This not to say that a .22 does as much damage as a larger caliber gun. It obviously doesn't. But it does present enough of a threat to the typical attacker that it will usually work to stop the attack. In the middle of being shot at, the typical attacker does not stop to consider the caliber of the bullets flying his way. In fact, the majority of incidents end with the attacker fleeing the scene, not with the attacker dead or immediately disabled (again, regardless of the caliber of gun used).

No doubt this information will be vehemently attacked by gun enthusiasts who assert that nothing less than a 9mm with a 15 round magazine is adequate for self defense. Could you possibly run into a situation where your 5 rounds of .22 are not adequate? Of course. But do you go through life prepared for the situations you are most likely to encounter, or do you gear up everyday for the worst case scenario? Only you can decide what you are comfortable with. Me, I choose not to dress in a rubber suit everyday because I could be struck by lightning. Likewise, I choose not to carry a large firearm, extra magazines, etc. when a small 5 round revolver will most likely be all that is needed (I typically carry my Black Widow, Mini Master, or a snub nose. 38, depending on my clothing choice).

Despite popular perception, violent crime is down approximately 40% from its all time highs in the 1970's and 1990's. Police agencies have collected data showing that most civilian shootings are associated with one or more of 4 activities: (1) use or sale of street drugs; (2) alcohol abuse; (3) criminal gang activity; (4) domestic violence. If you, or someone with whom you spend a lot of time , are closely associated with one or more of these activities, your odds of being involved in a shooting go way up. If not, your odds go way down, and you will most likely never have to use your gun.

So, the bottom line is, you must decide what level of risk you are comfortable assuming. But make your decision based on reliable information, not on what someone else thinks who may or may not be well informed.

Uncle_Lee · July-08-23 10:07

Thanks crabby old man, that is how I feel about what I carry.
I don't care what everyone carries. Just it don't pull down their pants in public.
When I used to go in bad places, I carried a pair of Star Firestar Pluses in double shoulder holsters. Now they just hang in a closet.
Now days I feel totally comfortable carrying a pretty little Pug in a pink and black pocket holster made by Mr. Rick.

bearcatter · July-08-23 11:07

To me, believing the "bigger is better" bunch puts many people in a situation that's not ideal for them. Especially over-penetration, but the macho Rambos don't consider that in carrying a hot caliber. Big deep holes are "where it's at, man!"

I averaged out the pros and cons of .32 and .380 and chose the .32 for my needs, but most would disagree. If all the gun rags and websites starting saying today that .32ACP was a good option, sales would double and there would be new pistols for it in nothing flat.

I might even carry .25ACP, but there no new guns and ammo is almost unobtainium. The kick I have with any .22 design is rimfire ignition being more iffy.

coppertop · July-08-23 11:07

Placement is everything.
The larger the bullet, the more forgiving placement can be.
Just as the smaller the bullet, the less forgiving placement can be.

The 22 Short is a head shot round and we're talking the soft spots (behind the ear, between the eyes, etc.) A center of mass shot is just going to irritate the aggressor. I feel confident that a 22WMR in the center of the chest will bring someone to their knees. Can't say that with the .22 short.

I worked a scene where the suspect was shot five times in the chest and abdomen with a .22 short. He casually said it stung a little, a lot like a yellow jacket sting. Casually walked to the ambulance like he stubbed his toe and off to the hospital he went.

You carry what you are comfortable with and practice so your proficient with it. If that happens to be a .22 short, who am I to say it's wrong. While I wouldn't carry one, I also wouldn't volunteer to get shot with it either.

dendrig59 · July-08-23 12:07

Uncle Lee, those Mr. Rick holsters are sweet! I need to save up my pennies and get me one!

Coppertop, no doubt the .22 short doesn't have the stopping power of larger rounds, but like you, few would volunteer to take a hit! As I stated earlier, it appears that the majority of self defense shooting incidents end with the attacker fleeing the scene when presented with the credible threat of being shot, not with the attacker dead or disabled. Thus it appears that the credible threat of death or injury is more important to success than the actual stopping power of the bullet fired.

I saw a police cam video of a suspect who shot the officer during a traffic stop. The officer returned fire, and the suspect took multiple shots to the chest from the wounded officer's. 357. The suspect then killed the officer, got into his car and drove off (he later died from his wounds). On the other hand, I've seen videos of suspects who drop from a single small caliber round, even though the wound was not immediately life threatening. Clearly then, psychological impact is as important as bullet impact, and like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get!

heyjoe · July-09-23 09:07

Quote from: coppertop on July-08-23 11:07

The 22 Short is a head shot round and we're talking the soft spots (behind the ear, between the eyes, etc.) A center of mass shot is just going to irritate the aggressor. I feel confident that a 22WMR in the center of the chest will bring someone to their knees. Can't say that with the .22 short.

I worked a scene where the suspect was shot five times in the chest and abdomen with a .22 short. He casually said it stung a little, a lot like a yellow jacket sting. Casually walked to the ambulance like he stubbed his toe and off to the hospital he went.

a center of mass shot with 22 short is just going to irritate the aggressor? yeah ok. like a yellow jacket sting?...yeah ok