.22 Mag as a Primary read these it may change some peoples minds.

Wolfar · December-20-12 07:12

First I want you to read these stats.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

.380 Number 1,,,,,,,,,, .22 (not even the mag was considered) Number 2!

This next post is GREAT but to get EVERYTHING out of it please read the WHOLE thing...

http://www.buchtik.eu/Revo/22mag_us.htm

My BW Mag is my primary carry. I take it everywhere I can. I can't take it on the Air Force base and a few other places but it is on my body almost 24 / 7 or in my nightstand at night.

I use Hornady Self Defense rounds they have almost the same ballistics as the .380 self defense rounds.

http://www.hornady.com/store/22-WMR-45gr-Critical-Defense/

I work in the Dental Field and have to dress nice and a gun even being spotted would make some of those cackling hens freak out!

As you can see at 30 feet I will get the job done. There are a few here at 75 feet, but almost all are at 30. I pity the fool someone on TV once said!

Wolfar · December-20-12 19:12

You know what really baffles me is that 95 people have read this post and not 1 comment.

Makes one go HMMMmmmmmmmm...........

zippovarga · December-20-12 19:12

lol...we're soaking it all in. We already know that the 22lr is a lethal round and that the 22WMR can certainly be very devastating. Hang in there.....you'll get more replies.

Dinadan · December-20-12 19:12

Wolfar - I have seen the Greg Ellifritz piece. A very nice study.

I also carry a NAA .22 Magnum as my primary, with a LR as my BUG. I think they will be effective against the average thug , but I still like to carry a .357 on the rare days when it is cold enough for me to wear enough clothes to conceal the bigger revolver.

tomhawes2002 · December-20-12 21:12

Interesting and enlightening research.Thanks! Helps validate all of our decisions to relay on the NAA Minis.

OV-1D · December-21-12 03:12

Thanks also for the research . Seems the mag. and special loads have better one shot take downs wonder if thats because of two holes generally instead of one holding up within the target . My beloved 45 acp didn't fair so well always thought foot pounds were best for that size of round . Distance must also be a huge factor ofcourse . Myself I'm looking for a round that will actually move a target not just put holes in it . I guess I would like to beat them up with the bullet before they go to the hospital or box . Thanks again for the info .

Wolfar · December-21-12 07:12

Seems like the best one to incapacitate and kill with 1 shot is the old .357 Mag.

I have a Ruger 357 Blackhawk single action revolver. I have nasty rounds for it.

BUT I am not sure I want to shoot someone in my house and the next house and the one after that if I miss.

So I have decided to use my Black Widow in my nightstand. I will save the O'LL Blackhawk for stomping around in the woods where there may be Bears and mountain lions.

45flint · December-21-12 08:12

There is a lot to take in. Appreciate the post, must not be enough data to add the mag to the study along the LR that would been fascinating. This really does say that calibers are much more equal than people like to think. Rather stong case for a smaller gun that you will tend to have with you. I used to carry a SW 38 snubby. But when I look at it now its just something I would never use daily. Strong case for NAA. The sidewinder is my new stubby.

tocsn40 · December-21-12 08:12

I could have posted the above post. After getting minis the have been dailys. I do still take the 38 out some times but not every day that is my SW now

JohnnyK45 · December-21-12 10:12

An article I read a long time back, the "expert" said something to the effect in his closing, that the best gun to carry, is the gun YOU WILL carry. Meaning of course, buying a larger gun with a higher caliber is nice, but you may not wish to carry it as much; thus, sacrifice power for carry ease and flexibility - better to have a gun on you then no gun at all. I agree with that.

Vzone1 · December-21-12 11:12

So I just bought my first Pug. It has the 1 and 1/8 inch barrel. I live in AZ, so with clothing at a minimum, I'll be carrying the pug quite a bit. I'd like to know the best ammo for self defense?

blazinwv · December-21-12 11:12

Very interesting reading....it also validates what I have seen in both my professions. More fatalities from .22 than the other popular calibers.

I am relatively new to cc and ditto what Flint said!

Wolfar · December-21-12 12:12

Quote from: Vzone1 on December-21-12 11:12
So I just bought my first Pug. It has the 1 and 1/8 inch barrel. I live in AZ, so with clothing at a minimum, I'll be carrying the pug quite a bit. I'd like to know the best ammo for self defense?

FYI I live in Avondale, AZ....

Presently I am using Hornady Self Defense ammo. Has about the same ballistics as a .380 link below.

http://www.hornady.com/store/22-WMR-45gr-Critical-Defense/

I just picked up these Winchester PDX1 defenders. I fired a few of them and they are HOT loads for sure. But without the measuring equipment I do not know if their claim of 1295 FPS out of a 2" barrel is accurate. But if it is even 1100 FPS man that is MOVING out of a small gun with a short barrel!

I think Spear Gold DOT has some Defense ammo out as well.

45flint · December-21-12 13:12

Just bought some of these a hour ago. Hope someone hear can do a report, the mag is getting a lot of attention, great for NAA.

Dinadan · December-21-12 15:12

It does seem that more different rounds are being made for the 22 magnum than in the past. But I really did not pay much attention to what was offered until I got my first NAA a couple of years ago. A lot of people in warm climates want a gun that they can conceal, I suppose.

Wolfar - I do not agree about the 22 mag being a good home defense gun. Yes, my mini is in the drawer by my bed, beside my wallet and phone; but my 357 is in a slot built into the headboard. If someone is in my house I want to stop them cold. If you are concerned about the round entering a neighbor house, then load down to a 110gr 38 HP: with that barrel it should expand very well and still probably stay in your house.

Wolfar · December-21-12 16:12

Quote from: dinadan on December-21-12 15:12
It does seem that more different rounds are being made for the 22 magnum than in the past. But I really did not pay much attention to what was offered until I got my first NAA a couple of years ago. A lot of people in warm climates want a gun that they can conceal, I suppose.

Wolfar - I do not agree about the 22 mag being a good home defense gun. Yes, my mini is in the drawer by my bed, beside my wallet and phone; but my 357 is in a slot built into the headboard. If someone is in my house I want to stop them cold. If you are concerned about the round entering a neighbor house, then load down to a 110gr 38 HP: with that barrel it should expand very well and still probably stay in your house.

I have backup, 1 = 110LB German Shepard, 1 = 60LB German Shepard, 1 = 50LB Boxer.

If I don't Kill an intruder and the Dogs don't eat his ass, my .357 Blackhawk is loaded and within a few steps away. Don't be an idiot and break into my house because you will die one way or another.

JohnnyK45 · December-21-12 17:12

QuoteDon't be an idiot and break into my house because you will die one way or another; by the way, Merry Christmas!

blazinwv · December-21-12 17:12

LOL......I am staying away from Wolfar's house!

Wolfar · December-21-12 17:12

Quote from: blazinwv on December-21-12 17:12
LOL......I am staying away from Wolfar's house!

Max says Merry Christmas!

arizona98tj · December-21-12 17:12

Wolfar,
I too live in AZ....West Phoenix, next door to you.

On this page, scroll down about half way and you'll see some other .22 Mag loads from my Pug that I've ran over my chronograph. It doesn't include the PDX1, unfortunately. I'll try to find some the next time I'm at the gun store and see if I can update my chart.

I hear you on having the dogs as backup....I've got a 100 pound pit mix, a chow, and a 60 pound pit. They make for a good deterrent, in my opinion.

Wolfar · December-21-12 18:12

Quote from: arizona98tj on December-21-12 17:12
Wolfar,
I too live in AZ....West Phoenix, next door to you.

On this page, scroll down about half way and you'll see some other .22 Mag loads from my Pug that I've ran over my chronograph. It doesn't include the PDX1, unfortunately. I'll try to find some the next time I'm at the gun store and see if I can update my chart.

I hear you on having the dogs as backup....I've got a 100 pound pit mix, a chow, and a 60 pound pit. They make for a good deterrent, in my opinion.

Those are pretty good spec for a Pug with that 1" barrel. My BW has a 2" Barrel and should result in faster FPS of course.

Nice stats though thanks for sharing!

Wolfar · December-24-12 07:12

I guess no ones mind was changed around here for the o'll .22 mag as a self defense weapon. LOL

Dinadan · December-24-12 08:12

Wolfar - you are pretty much preaching to the choir when you try to convince folks on this forum that the 22 mag is an effective self defense weapon. We all (or almost all) have a magnum mini, I think most of us carry one on a daily basis. I do, anyway. I still like to see new data, especially on new rounds. I carry CCI Gold Dots and Maximags in my mini. I have not tried PDX or Hornady Critical Defense - I do intend to get some soon.

Wolfar · December-24-12 12:12

Yea I realized that I am preaching to all the .22 Mag enthusiast.

I might not stop you with 1 shot but I certainly will kill you with 2 more!

Of course unless the first shot is in the head then I think you can go explain to God how you got there.

adp3 · December-24-12 19:12

After looking at the article closely I think I'll stick with my .357 for self defense. It tied with the highest rate of incapacitation with centerfire rifles at 91%, tied the .22s with fatalities at 34% and placed second in one-shot stops at 44% (1% behind #1 the .40 S&W). I'll still pocket-carry my BW 24/7 but I'll keep a .357 within reach too.

Best Regards,
ADP3

AZsnipe · December-24-12 19:12

I'm in Ahwatukee.
Stop in at the Dicks Sporting Goods in Tempe sometime and say Hi.
I'm in the "Lodge" dept. (where else?)

I'm looking around for some of the Hornady critical defense in 22 WMR. Haven't seen them locally yet. Currently, I have Winchester 40gr SJHP in the Mini.

Snipe

Wolfar · December-24-12 20:12

Quote from: AZsnipe on December-24-12 19:12
I'm in Ahwatukee.
Stop in at the Dicks Sporting Goods in Tempe sometime and say Hi.
I'm in the "Lodge" dept. (where else?)

I'm looking around for some of the Hornady critical defense in 22 WMR. Haven't seen them locally yet. Currently, I have Winchester 40gr SJHP in the Mini.

Snipe

One word,,,,,,,,,,,,, "Cabela's" in Glendale. I got Hornady critical defense and Winchester PDX1's @ 1295FPS out of a 2" barrel. I ordered both online and picked up in store so I would not have to pay shipping.

riadat · December-26-12 07:12

Pretty dog. I'm sorry but while I carry my 22 lr buntline sometimes as my only gun-- my 4 inch gp100 with 125 gr 357 jhp are gonna be the goto if someone gets past my mini schnauzer and breaks in my apartment.

Wolfar · December-26-12 08:12

Quote from: riadat on December-26-12 07:12
Pretty dog. I'm sorry but while I carry my 22 lr buntline sometimes as my only gun-- my 4 inch gp100 with 125 gr 357 jhp are gonna be the goto if someone gets past my mini schnauzer and breaks in my apartment.

Like I stated above, my .357 Blackhawk with that 6.5 inch barrel is not far away like a few feet and loaded.

I am not going to pack that heavy SOB around as a primary carry though ever.

needsoftseat · December-28-12 12:12

Interesting article. I have no doubt that the 22 is a leathal round. I also have no doubt that I would reach for one of my larger calibers if at home. But one factor to keep in mind when using a 22 for self defense outside of the home is the "surprise" factor. If I end up finding my self in a situation that is bad and getting worse(and I cant leave), i could have already slipped my hand in my pocket and have my 22 lr mini concealed in the palm of my hand with my thumb. Then if needed, i dont even need to draw, the gun is already in my hand, and if not needed i can slip it back into my pocket without anyone knowing. I cant do that with my 9mm or 38 snub. I have medium sized hands and can't conceal my LCP in my hand either. So these larger caliblers have to stay hidden away until the last second. I imagine this surprise factor may contribute to the statistics related to the smaller calibers, but thats one of the situational factors that isn't related to balistics. Kind or reminds me of an old western movie where two cowboys are facing off in the street and one draws and kills the other before his barrel clears the holster.....seconds and even fractions of a second do count.