2ND SideWinder Range Report

[oldguy]

2ND SideWinder Range Report 2013/01/12
Weather 80+ degrees sunny.
Range 7 Yards : See: 1.jpg
15 rounds Winchester HPCP Dynapoint 45 gr .22 WMR, 1550 FPS
35 rounds CCI 40 gr. RNCC .22 LR, 1200 FPS
See:  7.jpg
Shooter: OldGuy level: Recreational Shooter; Concealed Carry Permit.
The first target was a letter size sheet with five small bulls eyes. I used a two hand grip and attempted to zero on the top right bulls-eye. This was a dismal failure, I was lucky to hit the white anywhere. Two rounds where wide right and high by about 8" two rounds where low & left as I tried compensated - the last was about 6" high.
When I tried to eject the spent rounds the ejector would not budge. Tried changing my grip several times but nothing worked.
I changed cylinders. (After some practice and trial the previous evening I found a technique that easily and smoothly closes the cylinder. Pressing the "knob" on the ejector to the rear as the cylinder is closing allows the ejector and cylinder to seat.)
I loaded 5 .22 LR and moved my aim to the lower left bulls eye on the target, again using a two handed grip. If you look at image 2.jpg you can see the bottom right bulls-eye. 1st round 2 o'clock at edge of paper; 2nd 4 o'clock outside the third ring; 3rd 10 o'clock outside the 3rd ring; 4th 2 o'clock on the third ring; 5th at 5 o'clock in the second ring. Better but not great.
I ejected the spent LR cases and re-loaded and went for the top left bulls-eye, I will not bore you, it was much worse than the previous set. I tried to eject the spent cases but the ejector would not budge.
Tried the WMR cylinder but it still would not budge. I removed the LR cylinder from the frame and tried to eject the spent cases, with some effort the ejector moved and the cartridge cases came out. I re-installed the LR cylinder and reloaded and fired at the target top left bulls-eye again the results were not outstanding. Again the spent cases would not eject- I again removed the cylinder and put it to one side.
I tried to eject the WMR cylinder again; I was unable to move the ejector.
I tried setting the end of the ejector on the shooting bench and pressing there was no movement at all. Taking the end of the "safe weapon flag" I inserted into the cylinder to push on the empty case (see ** 3.jpg) the case moved as I went from chamber to chamber the cases moved until I hit the third chamber. The case in the third chamber was jammed tight with some effort I pushed the case out, the next were easily moved. Image 4.jpg shows the WMR case that jammed in the cylinder it has a notch in the edge and obviously had some kind of failure. ( **Image 3.jpg was actually was taken later after the 2nd set of WMR rounds to show the technique used to remove WMR cases from cylinder.)
I remounted the WMR cylinder and reloaded and I fired another set at the target; not much better results, not totally wild but not what you could say where grouped. All rounds were within the two ft. x two ft. cardboard backer close to if not on the letter sized target.
When I tried to eject the spent cases the ejector would not move again. I dismounted the WMR cylinder and then tried to eject the LR cylinder which ejected the spent cases. I mounted and load the LR cylinder and fired another set at the target most were high. When I tried the ejector again it did not want to move. I dismount the cylinder and emptied the WMR cylinder with the "safe weapon flag." (This is when three.jpg was taken.) If you look at images 5.jpg and 6.jpg you can notice the edges of the WMR cases have what appears to be a ridge at the mouth...maybe this part of the issue.
I then tried the LR cylinder again and the cases ejected. I remounted the LR cylinder loaded and fired another set.
At this point I decided to regroup. I dismounted the LR cylinder and took a break from the firing line.
After a five minute break the firing line went cold and I went to the target and mounted a new target.
I decided that the two hand technique was not working for me and resolved to use one hand only on the remaining sets.
When the firing line went "hot," I tried to eject the LR cylinder which easily ejected. I remounted the LR cylinder loaded and fired five rounds one handed. I dismounted the LR and mounted the WMR cylinder loaded and fired five rounds one handed. I dismounted the WMR cylinder. I ejected the LR cylinder and mounted and loaded it and fired the last five rounds again one handed at the target. I tried to eject the WMR cylinder the ejector did move not smoothly but I was able to eject the spent WMR cases without using the "safe weapon flag." I then tried the LR cylinder still mounted and ejected the spent rounds.
All of the last fifteen rounds were all within the 8"x10" target grid (two.jpg.) I subjectively feel I was shooting better one-handed.
Deductions:
•   SideWinder (WMR or LR) single action is responsive and to my opinion serviceable.
•   One jammed chamber can lockup the ejector.
•   The ejector is sensitive to heat.
•   The retained heat of five WMR rounds fired at 2 second interval will seize the ejector.
•   The retained heat of ten LR rounds fired in two sets of 5 at 2 second intervals will seize the ejector.
•   I need more practice.
•   Reloading under fire could be an issue with the Sidewinder.

[45flint]

Never had ejector issues with my Ranger, surprised that there would be a difference?   This report makes me want to buy shorts? 

[oldguy]

The busted cartridge casing would not helped but I think the heat is part of issue. The first outing was to an air conditioned indoor range. Cold air duct blew right onto firing station. I didn't have the issues I had today. Next time out I will try different ammo, may make a difference too.

[CavScout]

2ND SideWinder Range Report 2013/01/12
Weather 80+ degrees sunny.
<snip>

I see your heat problem.9:00 this morning here in Central Oregon, it was a sunny -8.1F degrees! 

[45flint]

I agree, maybe these Sidewinders need to go to the cold Midwest?  That Oregon freeze is headed our way. 

[OV-1D]

 Thanks again oldguy . Wow another great and detailed review , I hope NAA is taking all this in . Thats something I would like Sandy or NAA to do get back on actual reviews and comment on them .

[RogueTS1]

72 degrees F here yesterday. It was 66 F last night at 2 am.

[Dinadan]

I had my Sidewinder out this morning with a temperature of about 70 degrees. I fired sixty rounds of CCI LR Minimags and shorts (no mags) and had no ejector problems with the LR or shorts. I made sure to quickfire a couple of cylinders of LR to see if I had the problem Oldguy has, but mine worked fine.

[oldguy]

Happy to hear my issues are not a general problem. May one of the cold weather people could run some trials at sub-freezing and give us a report. Hehehe...
Thanks for the response, I will tell you all I'm no expert. I would think we are dealing with .001's of an inch or finer. Maybe my cylinders are a blonde hair off; alternatively maybe that defective casing blow some bits of itself into the works. Lots of variables to cross off.

Cleaned the frame and both cylinders best I could. I'm going to look for some eezox that was suggested,it may help. Anyone know how to break down the cylinders and ejectors for deep cleaning and look see?

[OV-1D]

  I've heard many a story about stainless steel weapons having more problems in real cold weather , more so than blue steel guns . By the way oldguy how many snowmen have to taken out ? 

[CavScout]

As I've commented elsewhere I've had and shot several S&W 22 LR revolvers. With them, it doesn't take much powder residue fouling to make hand ejection difficult to impossible. I think we'll find the Sidewinder ejection will be directly related to the batch of ammo being used.

I recommend taking a pistol cleaning rod with nylon brush with you to the range, maybe a little oversize brush. If the chambers are developing a dark gray haze, give a couple of push-pull strokes through each chamber. Save yourself frustration, and extra strain on the revolver's ejector.

If you find a batch of ammo that fires clean enough to eject 50 rounds without cleaning, let us know.

And another thought... Cowboy Action Shooters hone the chambers of their double barrel coach guns for quicker extraction. Check the chambers of your Sidewinder and see if there is any roughness that would add to "grip" for empty cases. Mine looks nice and smooth, and I ran a brass rod tip down the chamber wall with no indication of roughness. Haven't shot it yet... -15.3F degrees this morning. 

[CavScout]

<snip>
I'm going to look for some eezox that was suggested,it may help.
<snip>

My fading memory recalls reading something decades ago about not lubricating chambers. The theory was that the normal "stretch" of a brass case when fired depends on the friction of a dry chamber and ammo. Similar to fastener torque specs being different for dry and "oiled".

[CavScout]

  I've heard many a story about stainless steel weapons having more problems in real cold weather , more so than blue steel guns . By the way oldguy how many snowmen have to taken out ? 

Back when stainless steel was first seen for firearms, the gun magazine writers were claiming it was inferior to carbon steel because the machining methods at that time was leaving "micro burrs" on mating parts. Whatever perceived problem then has long since been resolved, but lingering blame on the metal may still exist. Temperature related expansion/contraction differences between stainless and carbon may exist, as well as surface roughness issues... but that's metallurgy far above my pay grade. 

[PJ Garrison]

Stainless steel has a tendency to "gall".  Galling is a sort of damage caused by friction (it's sort of complicated, but there's a wikepedia page on the subject if you're really curious).  If I remember correctly, a lot of those early stainless guns had galling issues.

However, the industry seems to have solved the problem long ago, so I don't think this is the issue.

I think a large part of the problem is that .22 magnums are high pressure rounds with a long cylindrical case.  The magnum empties will have more surface contact than the LRs, and because the pressures are higher, they may expand more, or contract less. 

It's less noticable on the basic NAA minis because you're only poking one round out at a time.  Multiply the friction times 5 and it will be much more noticable.