Did this citizen do right or wrong?

oldguy · February-01-13 10:02

http://m.jacksonville.com/news/crime/2013-01-31/story/man-who-held-suspected-hit-and-run-driver-gunpoint-describes-night

Found this story online. Was the action "right" or "wrong"? "Legal" or "illegal" is a different question depending on who is reading the Florida laws, I would guess.

OV-1D · February-01-13 11:02

Thats just how we do things down here in Florida .

coopercdrkey · February-01-13 11:02

This topic has been addressed several, (many?), times on this Board. The citizen did what he felt necessary under the circumstances, and must therefore suffer whatever consequences come his way.

The States Attorney's Office may well decide to bring no charges. If they do decide to charge him, it will likely be for brandishing a firearm. Concealed Carry Permit notwithstanding, the instant you draw your concealed weapon you become just a guy with a gun, regardless of your good intentions.

Let's hope he is not charged criminally. Even then he's not off the hook. I would be amazed if the hit and runner did not bring a civil action, maybe for kidnapping or false imprisonment or some other such BS. He would be unlikely to prevail, but think of the time and money this well-intentioned citizen will go through before it's over.

I know it sounds crass and uncaring, but I agree with Louie who said, in effect, "Me or mine, you're toast. Anyone else, I will observe closely and try to be a good witness."

BTW, it's only the way some of us do it down here in Florida.

RogueTS1 · February-01-13 11:02

Sounds ok to me. I am not sure i would have chased somebody down but I do not think what he did was wrong.

RogueTS1 · February-01-13 11:02

Unfortunately our litigious society has become unfair and ridiculous forcing many to think this way but............... this me or mine thinking is what leads to the way our society has become. Lazy, unattached and on the dole with a highly overated entitlement attitude. If we cannot help our fellow good citizen, neighbor etc without fear of ruin it leads to our own moral downfall in my opinion. Big Brother decides who can help whom without punishment and how they should do so.

If most everybody thought this way juries both criminal and civil would make it known to those that wished they were in power that the people do things "this way" and will not stand for such perverse Big Brother monitoring nonsense and that the bad guys better beware.

cfsharry · February-01-13 12:02

I have to disagree. Unless the hit and run victim was already being ministered to I believe the victim's well being should have been the first priority. Thinking the victim was dead without trying to render assistance is not, in my book, a good reason to pursue the perp.

keyman · February-01-13 12:02

He thought the man was dead, he called 911 and I'm sure they dispatched an ambulance to make sure. What could he have done for the guy that would have been greater than what he did? He was faced with a moral dillema, and he made a judgement call. I say bravo.

To those who would say it's wrong, would you also have this armed man walk on by if you were being beaten by muggers in an alley? Wait until they finish and give you medical attention maybe?

oldguy · February-01-13 13:02

The main points I picked up on were:
1-Minimal force was used to hold suspect until police arrived and no shots were fired.

2-"I thought he had actually killed the guy." Avery said Thursday. "I just felt there was no way in the world that he should be able to drive away from an accident where somebody died."

3-"He said he had been on the phone with a 911 operator throughout the incident and had informed him that he had a weapon."

4-"Everybody has to make a decision," he said. "That's the decision I made at the time."

5-The driver is being held on a charge of "armed possession of marijuana" at the time of the writing of the news report. Which to means the suspect had both marijuana and a weapon either on him or in his truck.

I believe this was a "righteous act". To me it sounds like a citizen acting in the interest of his city. There was no lynch mob action. It was hold for the police and let them figure it out.

coopercdrkey · February-01-13 14:02

Lest you misinterpret my position!

I think the guy did a brave and honorable thing. He may, in fact, have done more than enough to convince the State to not bring charges, and I sincerely hope that is the case.

Nevertheless, he exposed a firearm in public and detained another individual against his will. Those are chargeable acts!

And the miscreant, regardless of his leaving the scene, may bring any charge he wishes against our honorable citizen. In this great country of ours, anyone may sue anyone else for any reason at any time!

Have you had to engage a lawyer lately?

And don't ever accuse me of sucking the public dole to my face. I may need a lawyer......

oldguy · February-01-13 18:02

I think Florida law recognizes citizen's arrest power; detaining someone suspected of a felony for the police is ok, if minimal force and no delay in contacting police. Like a shop keeper hold a shoplifter until police arrive. Hit and run is a felony.

Bigbird48 · February-02-13 08:02

That's a tough call as to weather its legal, but it was honorable and I commend the guy. What ever happen to citizens arrest? I hope nothing bad happens to this guy and the driver gets locked up for ever.

oldguy · February-02-13 16:02

http://www.local10.com/news/Witness-to-hit-and-run-gives-chase-holds-suspects/-/1717324/18370852/-/b6gd39z/-/index.html

The latest story I could find says nothing about action against citizen, suspect made bail and pedestrian is expected to survive. No uproar from anti-gun crowd about gun use in this case.

lohman446 · February-06-13 05:02

From what we have been told of the actions:

I am not going to fault the person who did it. He made the decisions he did in a high stress situation and did what he felt was right.

My interpertation:

As with others my gun is to protect me and mine. I am not a police officer. My gun may be used to prevent crime: severe bodily harm, death, rape, or kidnapping. The list is fairly short. It is not intended to be used to carry out the duties of an officer.

That being said he may be ok. There are some obscure "fleeing felon" laws that might actually protect him. I would not want to be in a position to try to depend on them but he might be legally better off than we would initially think.

redhawk4 · February-22-13 21:02

Because he actually saw the crime take place he was entitled to make a citizens arrest in my understanding of the law from cases I've read of in UT. I'm not sure on the legality of using a firearm to make a citizens arrest though, I suspect it also depends a lot who wants to make an issue of it.

Logically I have no problem with what he did. Assuming the driver had insurance, had the man died his family would have got an insurance settlement, as it is he will get his medical bills paid and compensation. Hopefully it might educate others to do the right thing if involved in an accident. He also saved the tax payer the cost of a police investigation that may or may not have ever found the driver.

keith44 · March-04-13 00:03

Morally correct, IMO, but under KY law (I only know KY and some of Indiana's laws) he would be arrested and lose his CCW permit

redhawk4 · March-04-13 11:03

That's the problem in a situation like this and for society as a whole, morally or even logically everything he did improved the situation for the victim and for society - but legally it was wrong.