Self-defense value of mini-revolver in .22 short

[antares_b]

Do you think the NAA shorty has any value for self-defense, or do you think it's just a novelty?

[westerly1965]

I think it does...anytime someone tells me that a .22 short doesn't even hurt if it hits you I always offer to put three or four in them to see how they like it.  So far I have not had any takers...lol

[westerly1965]

That said I still think your better off with LR HP or Mag's if you can get them in the .22 cal...

[umpire]

The shorty isn`t the greatest in the self-defense arena. But it does have its place.

   Like the saying goes " What ever you have on you ,is better than the bigger gun you left at home"

   

   Its size makes it easy to carry, which is a plus.

   

   There is a couple of threads on here about using a certian bullet(Colbri,or something like that) that is actually for the LR, but by snipping the end of the lead of off the bullet will fit the cylinder of the shorty , and with the extra grain bullet compared to a regular short ,it gives a pretty good wallop.

   

   I never tried it , so it`s just what other boards members have tried.

   I know that I would not want to be hit with one

[lohman446]

I am STRONGLY of the opinion that all normally concealable firearms are, by their nature of being concealable firearms, poor choices for self defense. Yes, this applies to the vaunted .45 also.  If a concealable handgun is your only choice and you are facing a DETERMINED attacker (who stays determined after being shot) in relatively good condition chances are it will come down to something more personal than a gun fight.  I figure 5 holes and bullets bouncing around gives me a better chance in hand to hand combat.  The exact size of those holes and bullets is of a FAR secondary consideration than there existance.  

   

   Most SD scenarios end when a gun is produced.  Hence the rule: always have a gun.  Here the .22 short fills a niche.  To those who argue "it doesn't look like a gun".  Stand in the mirror with your mini and look at the business end.  It looks like a gun.

[westerly1965]

*To those who argue "it doesn't look like a gun". Stand in the mirror with your mini and look at the business end. It looks like a gun.*

   LOL Lohman that is a very true statement..

[heyjoe]

22 shorts are used in head shots to kill cattle for slaughter.

   for its purpose as a can carry easily anywhere its legal close in surprise i have a gun im not going to be your victim gun it fits the bill

[antares_b]

Thanks to all who have responded so far. These are very well-reasoned responses.

[bbgun]

As an old court reporter, I had a case where 2 neighbors got in an argument over a parking place.  The one chased the other up his stairs to his apt. The one got there first, got his .22 Beretta loaded with shorts and shot the other guy five times while he was coming up the stairs.  They fought but the shotee soon collapsed and was thrown back down the stairs.  He lived, but I heard that was the last time he went after the .22 short shooter.  So don't sell them short.  My brother was in the Border Patrol and got in a gunfight with a smuggler.  The Bad guy = a Mex cop -- was shot four times in the chest with a .45 auto then proceeded to shoot 2 of the Border Patrolmen and then drove himself to a nearby hospital!  So who knows -- but don't sell those .22 shorts short.

[grayelky]

It all boils down to something very simple: If *God wants him alive, you can't kill him. If God wants him dead, you can't keep him alive. About the only thing I can do is influence how long he stays in surgery.....

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   *You don't believe in God? You are on your own. Figure out your own philosophy!  

[ephraim]

Grayelky,

   I like your sound reasoning because I do believe in God.

   

   ".22 shorts are used in head shorts to kill cattle for slaughter"

   I believe they use rifles which gives them a lot higher velocity. I know when I was a kid on a farm we used 22 shorts in a rifle to kill hogs for slaughter. Usually about 6 or 7 at a time. Then the next day everyone would go to the neighbors to help them with their butchering.

   E!

[guadman]

Even just in forums I have read stories ranging from a guy who was shot 14! times with a .45ACP and lived....down to a police officer who was killed from 1 shot from an NAA mini LR.

   

   You can never be sure what will happen. I like my mini in LR but the fact is that if we fought and all you were going to "shoot" at me was a rock u had in you hand that you were throwing I bet I would duck and possibly head for the hills.

   (remember David and Goliath).

[coinchop]

I carried a 22 short back when for a few years.

   My thoughts were to hold off showing or using  

   it till the BG though he was safe and let his

   guard down a little, if that was possable.

   Supprise, BANG!

   If there was no hope for that my hope was to be

   a good shot...

   A 22 short mini isn't much of a gunfight gun

   so if things get scary, you had better be quick

   and accurate if thats the route you have to take.

   Just my thoughts.

[coinchop]

I might add, when I was younger I could run  

   better than I could shoot, but now I can shoot better  than I can run.

    I hope that I don't ever have to make a decision

   on which to do, ever...

[petergunn]

@ greyelky. Sound advice and observation. I too believe in GOD!

   

[grayelky]

Even with my personal philosophy in mind, a .22 short is pretty week. I may be wrong, but it is not much smaller than a Mini LR. If you have one, of course, use what you have. If you are pondering a purchase, I would go with the LR at the least. Right now, if I were buying my first Mini to use as a last ditch, please God let me get out of here in one major piece gun, with the knowledge I currently have I would pick a .22 mag for caliber, and either a Pug or a 1 1/8 standard revolver for a delivery system.

[antares_b]

I'm getting one for fun. My regular carry guns are more powerful. I was just wondering if folks on this forum think the .22 short mini is viable--at all--for self-defense. Outside this forum, it seems to be regarded as completely useless. I'm glad to see that people here think the little gun does have a place as a carry option.

   

   This post has generated some great stories.

[newguy]

S&W's first revolver that really sold was a 7 shot 22 short single action.  It was sold and marketed as a defense gun and sold quite well.  There was an issue with enough power, and some cases of the 22 short failing to penetrate Heavy woolen coats (particularly Confederate uniforms).  That said, it sold in the thousands, and not everyone wears heavy clothing and I am sure it did the job in more cases than it did not.  I have 3 guns for 22 short now, and I see it as the thing to have when you can have it or nothing.  The 22 short mini will hide in places where nothing else will, and for that purpose it shines.  It is the gun you have when for whatever reason, you do not have a gun, and is better in my mind for fending off attackers than your swiss arm knife or a set of keys.  

   

   And by the way, if you look on the NAA webpage and read the tests with the 22 short out of the mini, it does better than you might think.  Today's 22 short is a pretty hot little round, and there is really not all that much difference in what comes out the muzzle of the 22 short mini and the 22 lr 1 1/8" for velocity........  The 22 short gives more velocity than some of the 22 lr rounds tested.

   

   I would rather have my pocket 38 snub, but I can't always have that.............

[ricart]

I will not go into detail as I have put this in this forum before.  I have watched a man die from a .22 short and I have seen men live from a .45 in the head.  I have seen a woman walking around with a 4" hunting knife stuck up to the hilt in her back.  (Yeah, she lived)  I talked to a man shot in the head with a .25 and survived.  Another shot in the groin with a .25 FMJ and bled out before they got him in the EMS unit.  Gray's theory above is the best answer I have read so far, if the power upstairs says it's time, it's time.  No, I wouldn't use a .22 short for defense.

[flyinbiker2001]

I the 70's I took a 25 Acp to the skull impacted going upward fired from belt buckle level just below my left eyebrow it stopped right there the doc grabbed it with a set of stats yanked it out put a stitch or 2 and sent me on my way with a bad headache- it however did stop me but much to his misfortune did not stop the 5 Recon Marines with me-

[lashlarue]

Some thirty odd years ago, I decided I wanted a shooting range in my garage,

   .I bought a brick of gallery shot 22's, which I was assured would be less dangerous than a bb gun.I have no idea how long these had sat on the dealers shelves, but the bullets had hardened, considerably.My target was a wooden framed box with a 2" telephone book and a wet Sunday Houston Chronicle to stop the bullets.I fired nine rounds at my homemade target box.All nine pierced my target box, filler and embedded themselves in the sheetrock behind it.The pistol I used was a Hight Standard Sentinel with a 2" barrel.They definetly would be lethal against a live target.

[redhawk4]

If shooting someone 14 times with 45 acp didn't kill them, then based on the same theory 22 short would be utterly worthless.

   

   Fortunately there is a concept called shot placement which will guarantee much better results, regardless of your caliber.

   

   It should also be remembered that getting shot with anything including an air rifle is very painful, so someone needs a good reason to continue toward you, if getting shot is involved. Most are scared off if they think they are going to get punched by their "victim" if you stand your ground, let alone shot. I've heard of cases where an air rifle has been sufficient to scare someone off.

   

   Real life is not like the movies - Pity in one way though, because the happy endings come along about every 2 hours in the movies

[bill_deshivs]

Gallery ammunition is designed to disintegrate when it hits a metal plate. They will penetrate soft items very well, as you found out.

[Moderndayedison]

I once had a brother-in-law.....took one under

   the chin in a night club back in the late 70's.

   

   It was a 22 short, and he died at the scene.

   

   Later, it was ruled a case of mistaken identity

   by a gealious husband, his astranged wife didn't

   want him messing with the guy she had been doing

   on the side so she just picked a guy out of the

   crowd not realizing the gravity of the situation.

   

   Both the husband and his wife were charged  

   with second degree murder in the case.

   

   It's one of the reasons I carry today.

   If I am ever caught in such a situation  

   I don't want to be an unarmed victim.

   

   I reserve the right to protect myself.

   There is nothing in the law that says

   we have to be like sheep in a pasture

   awaiting our own slaughter.

   

   In the instant when a situation arrises

   the law is rather vague, at that particular

   time you are the judge of your own actions.

   

   If someone shoots at you, you can return fire.

   

   It's your choice if you choose to be unarmed.

   But it is not wise to impose your choice upon

   others who choose to be armed and ready.

   

   This is the core of the "Right to Bear Arms"

   argument with gun control and it's advocates.

   

   If you tighten gun control laws, the only people

   who will have guns are the criminals who don't

   obey the law in the first place. Making law biding

   citizens their victims and making the criminal's

   job that much easier.  

   

   Which makes me question the motives of legislators

   given the fact that they should know this stuff.

   

   My conclussion:

   22 shorts are better than nothing at all.

   NAA is better than DOA.

   

   And I know that a 22 short or 22LR round

   either one can kill a person if they are

   shot in the heart, the head, or a major

   artery. The .22 round is just as effective

   as an ice pick, only you don't have to be

   at arm's length to use it.

   

   Hope that helps.

   

   

   --MDE

   

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[fordfan]

I agree with MDE. The criminals will ALWAYS have guns, no matter what, and will use them for their own advantage.

[stainless1]

Robert F. Kennedy was killed in Los Angeles by Sirhan Sirhan who shot him behind the ear with .22 shorts.

[theysayimnotme]

"I agree with MDE. The criminals will ALWAYS have guns, no matter what, and will use them for their own advantage."

   

   So too will the legislators who write those bills. They will somehow manage to get a permit for themselves or their bodyguards on the basis of their being so valuable to society.

[grayelky]

quote:

   

   They will somehow manage to get a permit for themselves or their bodyguards on the basis of their being so valuable to society.(emphasis is mine)

We could settle the national debt if we could buy them all for what they are really worth, and sell them for what they think they are worth.

[Moderndayedison]

Good one Greyelky.

   

[flyinbiker2001]

America has made over 1 mil guns a year for 200+ years thats 200 mil guns total if all guns were outlawed today the bad guys will still be armed for 200 more years Why dont anyone make that point Rob

[therevjay]

A LR is better then a short, a mag is better then a LR, a .38 is better yet, and so on.

   

   .A .22 short is however is MUCH better then thinking positive thoughts, and trying to remember just exactly how Jackie Chan made those neat moves.

[grayelky]

Therevjay-

   

   Excellent points. Both of them!!!