Hoarding ammo

[redhawk4]

I think it's only hoarding when you are either buying it for the sake of it, buy it to sell at a profit, or already have more than you could ever likely use. I keep ammo stocks based on what I am most likely to need if an emergency arose and ammo was not available - a bit like now really well not quite we still have food and the civil unrest is still under control. Therefore it's legitimate to have several thousand rounds of certain calibers for defense and providing food regardless of how many rounds you shoot on a regular basis.

Regarding 22 for defense, from a rifle and at a distance where you are keeping people at bay rather than close up combat, it could be very effective. At 100 yds a round between the eyes will kill someone as dead as anything else, so if nothing else you could preserve ammo for bigger calibers until people start getting up closer. The lower noise may also have some tactical advantages.We shouldn't forget that an NAA sized revolver has the ability to kill, but the same ammo coming from a 20" rifle barrel is in another league all together in terms of velocity and vastly better real world accuracy to ensure suitable placement.

Looking at the killing power of small calibers, I was watching a real life crime show last night where 4 people were murdered in the same incident. One was a woman the other 3 comprised of 2 good sized high school football players and another good sized former player and older brother. The murder weapon was in 25 acp which gives about the same performance that 22 mag has when fired from a small handgun. So while I would not rush to my gun cabinet and then out into the street with a 22, given some other options, it's ridiculous to imply "it's a bit better than nothing".  If nothing else you have to take into the account the effect the idea of getting shot has on any would be attacker, who would certainly go to the homes of non gun owning liberals for whatever they want,  before chancing their arm against a 22. Who knows order may then be restored before you ever need to find out how well your 22 will work in anger.

[RogueTS1]

I agree and do not forget that in combat the effect being sought is to take the opponent out of the fight not necessarily kill him so a .22 at 100 yards is very likely to stop the enemy from coming forward aka take him out of the fight. Same thing applies at closer ranges just not to the same effect.

[OV-1D]

  Just got back from Gander Mountain in West Palm Beach  ,Fl. Well everybody must be buying 22 ammo direct anymore they had 8 boxes of 22 shorts thats it . Every sort of other ammo was everywhere with 12 gauge being in crates and everywhere also . They had plenty of 17 hmr , 22 hornet . Quite incrediable that 22 lr & 22mags are completely gone and they had limilts of how many any single person can buy from the 22 shelves any given day . THIS IS VERY STUPID THING THATS GOING ON  ,what a joke on us . By the way 45 cal was extra plentiful in auto and rimmed and all prices were pretty compatable with only a maybe 15 % markup from usual if that much .. I could buy a new car and a half with what ammo I've saved over the years with these shortages .

[rhett]

I agree and do not forget that in combat the effect being sought is to take the opponent out of the fight not necessarily kill him so a .22 at 100 yards is very likely to stop the enemy from coming forward aka take him out of the fight. Same thing applies at closer ranges just not to the same effect.

here is how I evaluate my cartridges effective ranges from a rifle barrel.
25 yards =.22 Short (high Velocity)
50 yards = .22 long rifle and 12 gauge buckshot
100 yards = .22 Magnum
200 yards = .30-30
300 yards = .243

note, the .22 caliber is for small game one shot kill, and the slightly larger .243 is a long range big game one shot kill.

so, the lesser cartridge will in fact perform within its limitations. shot placement is the most critical factor at any distance or caliber.

true, wounding shots involving a group of assailants has moral and logistical advantages, though nothing is more demoralizing than a one shot kill.

[tomlogan1]

Went into a local reloading supply with a buddy and found a single box of .22 long rifle for $3.95. It was his last box and he had no idea when he would get more. 

Of course, I took it.

[heyjoe]

i was following an auction today on gunbroker for a lightweight baby browning. i checked out the highest bidder and saw that in another auction, he had just bid and paid $89 for 550 lr rounds. I didnt bother to check back after that.

[Dinadan]

A friend just bought some LR from a local fellow. That fellow has a business model of watching internet sites for ammo to become available, and buying as much as he can as fast as he can in order to sell it himself. I am guessing that people like that have a lot to do with the ammo shortage. At some point the market should be flooded with enough ammo that there is no longer much profit in that business model. When that happens, probably a lot of of folks like me who used to buy ammo as they needed it will start building stockpiles of a few thousand  rounds, just in case this happens again. That may well prolong the shortage again.

[frimsure]

this hoarding thing is getting out of control. i drove from my home in green bay to miliwakee and back all i could find for ammo in 22 cal. was bird shot. but the shelves still had .17 hmr ammo though. i found one store on a rundown part of town here in green bay who had 5 boxes of magnum round left. 4 where winchester home defense rounds each box was $16.00 a box the last box was a box of remington magnum round he wanted $14.99. really people??? you can buy .30-.30 rounds for that price.

[boone123]

To hoard, or not to hoard.  Went out to the country today, as it was a beautiful winter day, and ran 300 rounds through a 3rd model Colt Woodsman. Shooting them was way more fun than saving them. Another trade off in this life that was a good time...
Some of you may remember today for the rest of your life, as the day spent watching your hoard of ammo, or looking for some.
Not me!     Life is good...

[grayelky]

I was looking for .22 LR ammo to sell in my shop. I found a site where I could buy 120 boxes, and selected it. While doing the math, I figured I would be just slightly ahead of break even, but, it would give me an edge against all the other gunshops in the area. I had decided to go ahead and make the purchase, and started checking out. The shipping was $78!! That would have added $.65 per box just for the shipping charges!!!!

Not "No", but HECK NO!

The next time you are tempted to accuse your LGS of price gouging, stop and consider what the owner may have had to pay to get the item.

[OV-1D]

 Shipping charges for just about everything is a compleat disgrace . Thats never going to get any better , we just might as well get use to that .

[TwoGunJayne]

All I can get within a reasonable drive is .22 short CB caps (no powder.) I guess it's better than nothing, at least I can still plink my .22 short frame.

A local gun show was scalping the 525 round boxes for $100, the "normal people" weren't buying. Some rich guy walked up and bought 4. I was in shock and disbelief that he fed the scalpers.

[tomlogan1]

Cheaper than Dirt has Aquila CB caps a 500 round brick for $3.92 plus $11.xx for shipping.  Just ordered and it went through.  Will be interesting to see what they ship.I printed my orde and it says 500 rounds.

[bud]

Going to a gun show next Saturday. Can't wait to see if they have ammo, and if so the price that there asking for it.   

[RogueTS1]

Hopefully not an hour and a half wait just to get through the front door. With that kind of wait makes going to a gun show almost like going to work.

[TwoGunJayne]

TomL, let us know how your misprint price 50 round box price for 500-brick went through. I could use a couple thousand CBs.

Side note: Aguila Super Colibri fits in the NAA .22 short mini if you nip the tip off with a utility knife. There is no chamber pressure to speak of, this is like the OPPOSITE of hot rodding. Cold-rodding? Is there such a thing? (Yeah, man... it gets 50 horsepower LESS and I managed to add 6 seconds to the quarter mile on THIS baby. Jealous?  )

[bleak_window]

Jayne, maybe that "rich" guy at the gun show was not rich at all but perhaps needed the .22lr instead of just wanting it, and so paid the going price.  What if he had already scheduled an Appleseed weekend for his family, or had the grandkids visiting and wanting Grandpa to teach them?  Sometimes it's better to overpay rather than postpone something important or miss out on precious memories.  Just saying we don't always know the reasons people do what they do.

[Kentucky Kevin]

Talking with my wife today, going to attend another appleseed end of March, told her I've still got some ammo that cost around a penny each, love to shoot, no reason not to go.

[TwoGunJayne]

Okay, bleak and hardtack. I feel bad now, you're probably right. I am the last person who would deprive boy scouts from their merit badge, or even the girl scouts (if they did such a thing.) In fact, anyone at all who wanted to practice the sport of target shooting should be permitted to do so.

I realize now that even our future Olympics are being hurt by this. 

Who the heck is buying out all of the .22 everywhere? They must have a mountain range of it by now. Maybe we should get them a gun in another caliber? What's a caliber that nobody likes? 

[Kentucky Kevin]

2GJ that's twogunjayne, funny that you should mention Scouts, I just returned from an Arrow of Light ceremony to usher three Cub Scouts into Boy Scouts, which is where I learned the rules of shooting. Spoke to a professor, who's husband is also a teacher,that was going to start homeschooling thier two teenage children because she is unhappy with the direction that the public education system is going.

[oldguy]

Gunshop in town has 22s on the shelf, they are avaiable IF you buy a 22 firearm. No firearm no ammo. Times are changing, they used to give 50 rounds with a purchase now you need to buy  a gun to  be allowed to purchase rounds at 225% increase from Dec2012.

[Kentucky Kevin]

Woe unto the watchman if he cryeth not when he sees the evil approaching. I started buying 22 to store in 2007 when it was less than $6 per 550. Thank God. There is a storm coming be prepared.

[boone123]

I have been trying to figure out how they can teach students about the second amendment if the gun word, and pictures are such a bad thing.
If not for some of those crappy kill em all, TV shows, some kids might not ever know what a gun looked like.

Old lady obama thinks all guns are all automatic. Would serve her right if somebody locked her in a gun store all night with the lights off, and real sound effects. Might make her hair curl.

I think if I could name one of my kids today, I would name him GUN. Every time the teacher called his name, everybody would duck.
Then again, with all the gun-free zones, he could be barred from school.

Here I am, thinking in print again.

More on hoarding, I still shoot faster than I can hoard.

[tomlogan1]

As expected, Cheaper than Dirt took my money and sent a singe 50 round box.  After emailing them, the sales rep said I should have known better.

That really set me off so I sent him a scan of the original add and my order form, both specifying a 500 round quantity.

I told him that I don't make  the pricing decisions for CTD and if they want to have a loss leader, that's OK by me.

I want either a full refund or the other 9 boxes.

If not, I'm done with them and will find a bottom feeding lawyer to get me compensated for my pain and suffering.

[boone123]

I check Wal-mart almost every day and a couple of nights ago they had a case of Winchester bulk packs still on the cart.
Got my share. They shoot good!!!    Made some awesome long shots. Missed some to. Was a good day...

[Kentucky Kevin]

Precious metals   wasted or invested??? Went shooting today Wasted 30-40 rounds throughRuger Charger( no optics point shooting at 25 yds ) Ruger 10/22 Take down (no sling stud and am removing optics to put on Charger ) Invested Beretta 21 stills groups tighter than I can HOLD 4 NAA mini's at ten feet still not able to put all on playing cards at ten feet shooting fast. Once I can consistantly do that, I'll start incresing the distance. forgot how fun it is to shoot the 4 inch mini master lg grips and real sights.  Going to start having a plan before I get to the range

[tomlogan1]

Here is the original description for the 500 round brick I ordered.  This comes up from the actual order I placed when you click on the item number.

[RogueTS1]

It does list a 500 round brick for sale so they cannot say it was a simple typo.

[tomlogan1]

Here is what they are offering.  I am inclined to take it and then discontinue business with them.  There are too many places to spend my money that won't lie to me.

I have refunded your shipping.


Chris Brown

Cheaper Than Dirt, Inc.
2524 NE Loop 820
Fort Worth, TX   76106
Phone 817-378-5100 Ext. 158
www.CheaperThanDirt.com
From: Tom Logan [
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2013 5:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Fw: RE: Order 11560798

Chris -

As I mentioned, attached please find my original order as well as the description showing this was a brick, not a single box.

I expect Cheaper than Dirt to either send the other 9 boxes or refund the entire amount, including shipping.  I would never buy a product in which the shipping cost was three times the purchase cost.


----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Tom Logan <t
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 8:47 PM
Subject: Re: RE: Order 11560798
Chris
If you check the order and the item you will see the add was for a brick.  I will email you a copy when I return home later this week.
I only want what I ordered or a refund.  If a refund, I will return the single box.
I never question deals from internet sites that are loss leaders.  Since I am a current customer, I never expected a hassle or I would not have ordered.
If the order had been checked and an email sent about a mistake in pricing, I would have cancelled with no problem.
Since the order was accepted and processed, you have a moral and legal obligation to make it right.

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android
From: Chris Brown <[email protected]>;
To: Tom Logan
Subject: RE: Order 11560798
Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2013 8:17:31 PM

It was a single box. That's why it was $3.92.




Chris Brown

Cheaper Than Dirt, Inc.
2524 NE Loop 820
Fort Worth, TX   76106
Phone 817-378-5100 Ext. 158
www.CheaperThanDirt.com
From: Tom Logan
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 11:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Order 11560798

My order for item 7-A339 called for a brick, not a single box.  That is what you shipped to me.

I have a print out of the original order and it did specify a brick.

Please send the balance or let me know how to return the one box for complete credit including shipping.

Thank you.

[Uncle_Lee]

I check Wal-mart almost every day and a couple of nights ago they had a case of Winchester bulk packs still on the cart.
Got my share. They shoot good!!!    Made some awesome long shots. Missed some to. Was a good day...

I have been checking Wal-Mart in the mornings and there is nothing there but shotshells.
Yesterday morning I talked to the girl about the ammo situation and she said that the ammo comes in around 6:00 PM and never gets off the cart. People are lined up waiting for it. It is all gone before 7:00 PM.

[boone123]

I have been picking up some 22s at Wal-mart, the last two times off the cart before its stocked. Most of the time I check twice a day.Still shooting them faster than I can hoard. I see that now some states are looking at in some cases, a big tax on ammo.
I think in many cases, power to rule becomes a mental problem.

[rhett]

CTD has removed all previous price tags on ammo? Just noticed it while eying out for more hoarding. CHEAP , the little bird flutters away.

[TwoGunJayne]

I was going through boxes of junk and throwing stuff away. When, lo and behold, I opened a box containing about 2,000 Winchester wildcat .22 lr loose rounds in a plastic bag!  Excellent! 

I found ammo that I had hoarded away from myself and forgotten about. Time to go shooting!!!

See? Hoarding isn't always a bad thing! 

[bigdave74]

22 Rim-fire shelf life,
I don't know about all you out there but I have found 22 Rim fire cartridges have what could be termed a shelf lime.  My experience has been the longer 22 ammo sits around the greater the fail to fire rate.  Lets say I am using ammo that gives me 1 failure out of every 200.  Keep ammo from the same lot on the shelf at room temps for say for 5 years and that rate goes up to 3 or 4 out of 200.  Each years after the first five the rate would increase a bit until after 10 years failure would be near 10%.  Also the bulk packaged and less expensive ( heavily waxed lead RN ) tended to have a higher initial rate of failure and tend to have greater failure rate over time also.
No hard data was recorded for this phenomena so numbers quite approximate.  Still I have been seeing this for about 50 years of shouting.  Something to think about those of you hoarding 22 out there!

[tomlogan1]

Ive not been shooting as long as you so I will defer to your stated failure ratios and projections.  With the price and availability of rimfire these days, your observations are somewhat moot.

Heard what is probably a new urban legend that the Federal Government is causing the shortage by threatening ammo manufacturers to lose any military, or other government contracts if they supply the retail market.