Thinkin' about a Mini-master...anyone have one?

[kmystry]

I recently bought a BW for concealed carry after several years away from NAA guns...I love it.  I'm now contemplating a 22lr Mini-Master for out in the desert plinking and general all-around fun. 

There doesn't seem to be much discussion about them on this forum.  Are they accurate?
I'm not looking at one as a carry gun just as a truck gun for rolling tin cans.  I know that there are other options that give you more cartridge capacity and cut down on the reloading "fiddle" time, but I kind of like the "fiddle" time...that probably sounds weird but I like manipulating my guns. Also, I'm such a fan of the craftsmanship of NAA guns that I think I might enjoy one.  Any thoughts, gentlemen?

[TwoGunJayne]

I've got both a black widow and a minimaster, each with conversion cylinders. I think the BW is a better "always" gun, while the MM is a better lightweight target pistol. I got my MM with the adjustable sights; I was used to the non-adjustable BW sights so when I first saw the huge adjustable sights on the MM I said "WOW!" and had no choice but to buy it.

I think you'll find that the longer sight radius of the MM, plus the better sights will have you hitting better and at greater distances. Also, the longer barrel makes a CCI stinger perform nearer to the level of .22 magnum out of a mini. You really want one with a conversion cylinder. It's the only way to go.

I have no plans to get rid of either... ever.

[cedarview kid]

I really like my four-inch NAA minis, but I have to admit that I like the four-inch Earl better than the Minimaster.

[kmystry]

What is it about the Earl you like better?  They look a bit heavier to me with the faux loading lever.  But maybe that's not the case.
I agree with your comment, Jayne.  The BW IS an excellent "always" gun.  I think I'd opt for the fixed sights on the Mini-master.  It's what I have on the BW and I love them.  There seems to be lots of Earls in the gunshops near me...are they an aquired taste?  I never see any Mini-masters, ever.

[TwoGunJayne]

Heh. I had to drive an hour and a half to get my Mini Master and my Hogleg (6" Earl) on the same day.

I never thought I'd like the Earl so much until I held one, liked it enough to buy it. After waistband carry of the 4" for a week, I realized that I simply loved the thing. It was extremely comfortable, not bulky or heavy at all. For me, a 4" Earl is perfect for IWB carry. When you hold it in your hand, point the muzzle up and look at it from that perspective it's just nice. Well, for me, anyway.

With that said, I've carried a Black Widow far more often. It's the grips.

[kmystry]

Interesting. Yeah, I do like the grips on my BW.  I have both the rubber ones and the Rosewood ones.  I'm gravitating back towards the rubber ones at the moment.
The 4' length on the Earl seems too long for CCW but they are very small footprint guns overall so I can see that they might be ok in that role.  Does this apply with your MM as well...good for CCW too or just enough of a profile difference between it and the Earl to not carry it?

[TwoGunJayne]

The adjustable sights on the MM are huge, that's what's stopping me from IWB carrying it. They snag pretty well. The non-adjustable are better if you have to get it out in a hurry. I get it out for a deliberate task: hunting, target shooting, etc.

Strangely, I'd IWB my Hogleg before I'd IWB my Mini Master. It fits in the crease between leg and groin in front waistband extremely well and pretty much vanishes.

[tomlogan1]

I have a mini master with the NAA shoulder holster that I use when fishing. 

There are a lot of copperheads where we fish and camp and the mini master with shot shell works quite well.

You won't regret getting one.  My only change was to paint a red dot on the front sight to make the gun more accurate.  It won't win any 100 yard competitions, but has put down several copperheads.

[cedarview kid]

What is it about the Earl you like better?  They look a bit heavier to me with the faux loading lever.  But maybe that's not the case.
I agree with your comment, Jayne.  The BW IS an excellent "always" gun.  I think I'd opt for the fixed sights on the Mini-master.  It's what I have on the BW and I love them.  There seems to be lots of Earls in the gunshops near me...are they an aquired taste?  I never see any Mini-masters, ever.

I think the Minimaster actually contains more metal, do to the ribbing on the barrel. The fake loading lever is minimal in weight, I would think. If you want the adjustable sights, though, definitely go with the Minimaster, as the Earl doesn't have that option.

If you love the Black Widow, tho, that's another great reason to get the Minimaster--because it's basically "more of the same." It's just longer. If ya don't love the Earls, again, go for the Minimaster. I like the loading lever, tho. It makes me sure the cylinder pin is in and good to go.

[Uncle_Lee]

You have now read all the reasons to get one, now go get it (or two of them).

I also don't mind removing the cylinder during the reload.
You don't shoot up as much ammo that way.

What are we going to do when we get down to the last box of 22s in the closet?

[tocsn40]

That will be on sad day indeed

[bleak_window]

I recently stocked up on .22 pellets just in case the .22lr runs out.  At least I can still target practice.

[Bluelitenin]

My first NAA was a mini master. I really like it, it is the magnum cylinder. I have found it quite accurate at 25+ yards. I have even mounted a scope on it. Although I have yet to shoot it
since adding the scope.

[kmystry]

("I recently stocked up on .22 pellets just in case the .22lr runs out.  At least I can still target practice.")

Have I missed a shooting option? 
I don't understand how you shoot .22 pellets in your 22lr gun.  Educate me if you will. Or...oh...you're shooting them in a pellet gun only while you wait for the availability of .22lr ammo to shoot in your regular .22 guns, is that it?
I talked to the local Wally World sporting goods manager on Saturday and he told me he is seeing more and more .22 lr ammo coming in.  You just have to catch them just right because he said it's gone in just a few minutes but he said they have been getting those 525 ct. Remington Golden Bullet bricks in with some regularity lately. It's not my favorite ammo but, man, it would be like gold right now to have a few bricks of that stuff.
I think I'm gonna go see my FFL and have him find me a fixed sight Mini-master (if he can).  I went out in the desert Saturday afternoon and blew through some random 22 shorts and long rifles I had laying around.  My black Widow grouped pretty well at 21 feet with all of it including the shorts.  I put a few cylinders of .22 mag downrange too.  I carry with .22 mag but plink with long rifle.  Anyway, I'm rambling on...

[cedarview kid]

I don't think anybody is suggesting shooting .22 pellets from a .22LR handgun.

I also have a small pellet gun collection, but I don't have any .22's. All of mine are .17's, which is the "standard-size" pellet. They're still a lot of fun to shoot. Don't discount the fun factor of shooting an air gun. I have a number of them that I shoot. In fact, I recently purchased a Umerex fully auto BB gun, which is a blast! It shoots in bursts of 3 and 6, as well as single shots. It's a hoot to shoot!

My "adult" Gamo pellet rifle with scope is a fun target gun. It's very accurate. I also have a "cheap" (as in price) Chinese pellet rifle that I bought new for $20. I don't see how they could sell them new, with the wood stock, but I guess that's what you get for cheap Chinese labor. It's not a bad pellet rifle at all. I also have a few other decent pistols, including the popular 1377 (of which I have 3, but one needs the seals replaced).

[TwoGunJayne]

Kmystry: "Have I missed a shooting option? I don't understand how you shoot .22 pellets in your 22lr gun.  Educate me if you will. Or...oh...you're shooting them in a pellet gun only while you wait for the availability of .22lr ammo to shoot in your regular .22 guns, is that it?"

Mr N.C: "I don't think anybody is suggesting shooting .22 pellets from a .22LR handgun."

Oh yeah! Well *I* do! 
.22 lr and short pellet shooters:
Heh! BOTH! CCI calls them "CB caps," Aquila calls them "Colibri" and "Super Colibri." They actually beat some pellet rifles in muzzle energy. 20 grains at 700 fps is moderately decent pellet rifle territory, but definitely not high end. Its the only kind of available .22 rimfire ammo I've seen lately.

Also, naa, I've gotten one of those Umarex Steel Storm things as well. Tons of fun! People love tearing up cans and old cd-r disks with it. I have a Crosman 13xx also, a true classic. Your choices in air look good to me!

We, here at the fine NAA forum, put the "master" in the "mini." 
Primer power .22 pellet shooters:
You can make a "pellet shooter" out of a 5.56/.223 rifle by dinging the base of the case neck with a center punch, drilling the primer pocket larger for 209 primers, the flash hole larger, reloading a primer in the primer pocket, and slipping a .22 pellet into the case neck. You can increase velocity slightly by adding a thin spread of white elmer's glue around the edge of the pellet, just like reloading a black powder all-brass 12 gauge shell. You'll want the lighter weight pellets. This trick works best in a bolt or single shot action, a semi is pointless. Sportsman's guide has the gall to sell these casings at some ridiculous $15/3 casings. Whatever. Anyway, small rifle primers are piled up in racks and stacks near me. No shortage, no gouging. Unfortunately .22 pellets are undersized when compared to .22 firearms, so there will be an accuracy hit unless the barrel was made for pellet-only.

Since there's no ammo to buy, the ammo budget has to go somewhere. Hey, I bought a couple thousand heavy pellets in .22 and several thousand in .17, a 530 fps full-auto airsoft that tears up empty soda cans, a 4.5mm Umarex Steel Storm select-fire co2 BB gun, a new slingshot with spare bands, and a bunch of reloading components because of this.

For the same price, I could have bought 5 boxes of bulk loose 500 rounds of .22lr at ripoff prices at the recent gun show near here. I think I got the better deal, and at least I can play with these toys once the current politicos (re)create the revamped all-new Department of Social Security (we will refer to them as the SS) with top-notch uniforms designed by Hugo Boss.

A few links for your reading pleasure...
A 209 primer powered rifle: http://www.cabelas.com/product/Pedersoli-209-Hawk-Rifle/706417.uts
http://www.primegun.com/prime.htm
Remington Rider .17 lead roundball percussion cap only http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=2032
Thread with pellet adaptor pics: http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/thompson-center/85457-what-about-22-caliber-pellet-adapters.html
Indoor Shooting Training Devices: http://adaptagun.com/index.htm
Explosive Airgun Pellets: http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/04/13/upgrade-your-air-rifle-pellets/
Primer Pellet Rifle History: http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/11/nothing-new-under-sunthe-zimmerstutzen.html

[cedarview kid]

LOL, Jayne!

We better watch the fun we're having or Dianne Feinstein might notice! How dare she say our guns are "unnecessary pleasures"? What does she know, anyway?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/26/sen-dianne-feinstein-assault-guns-nnecessary-p/

[kmystry]

I fondled one of those Pedersoli 209 primer guns at Cabela's in Lehi, Utah not long ago.  I thought it was pretty cool but, boy, they were proud of them.  I think it was north of $350.00 as I recall!  Lightweight and cute though.  But my BW is lightweight and cute, too.

[TwoGunJayne]

Mr NC: As if the 2nd amendment is an "unnecessary pleasure." Sounds like something the Founding Fathers of America would think a tyrant would say.  If the freedom of speech permits Feinstein to say these things, then I am free to say that "Feinstein is an unnecessary politician and should transition into the fast food industry." Grr.

Kmy: I have to wonder how hard those things are to make? How hard could it be to throw together a conversion barrel for an H&R Handi Rifle or some such? Since .22 pellets are slightly undersize compared to .22 rimfire, I've got a spare .22 pellet rifle barrel lying around from an old project and Eun Jin .22 pellets are the heaviest at a hair over 32 grains...

I'm not suggesting anyone void their warranty or anything or actually try this, but I wonder how well a .22 blank and a .22 pellet would work from the cylinder of a .22 mini master? Not a power tool load, but an actual blank. Most of those blanks are even black powder, if I recall clearly. I wouldn't think it would cause an unsafe pressure situation. I wouldn't try it in my beloved NAAs, maybe in a junk .22 revolver perhaps...

[kmystry]

Somethin' to think about for sure...I assume you can fire a Ramset (power driver) load from a .22 as a blank round.  I have no idea what kind of powder is in those little charges but I'm fairly certain it would have to be smokeless powder to generate enough power to drive the fastener.  Anyone ever do it?  It would be interesting if you could figure out a way to put a pellet in front of the charge somehow like a black powder rifle charge concept.
I'm probably going to get someone mad at me for this line of conversation...just thinking out loud, no harm intended.

[TwoGunJayne]

I read some armchair internet expert's post on using .22 powder tool loads in a firearm: His summary was don't do it, it causes unsafe pressure and can destroy guns. Keep in mind that it was some joker on the internet, he posted no pics or data to back it up.

Swivel Machine Works sells a modified Ruger 10/22 that fires arrows using them, but only suggests two colors out of all the powder loads.

http://www.swivelmachine.com/html/rimfire.htm

HAH! There is some data, but that's out of a modified rifle... not a pistol.

[TwoGunJayne]

Hey Sandy! Hint, hint!

[Kentucky Kevin]

TGJ save some of those 22cb for a long barreled rifle, they sound like a pellut gun and have great penitration althought hey drop 6 inches at 25 yds. Would kill ANY pest quietly, without having to get a $200 stamp

[rhett]

TGJ save some of those 22cb for a long barreled rifle, they sound like a pellut gun and have great penitration althought hey drop 6 inches at 25 yds. Would kill ANY pest quietly, without having to get a $200 stamp

Be careful using CB's in a rifle or any firearm for that matter. A "Squib round" is possible, the bullet stays lodged in the barrel. I think this warning is even printed on the box.

[TwoGunJayne]

That's why Super Colibri are better to try out of a long barrel, though you still might get a "squib" shot that sticks in the barrel.

Just plain Colibri rounds? They aren't as good, but you have less of a squib chance out of a pistol. Super and Regular Colibri rounds? Neat rounds, really.

[Kentucky Kevin]

I think I tried it once and found it loud, Buddy with a can swears by them

[TwoGunJayne]

Aquila round comparison:

Aguila (Super) Colibri: Less grain weight and less foot pounds of energy.

Aguila SSS 60 grain rounds: They are 3 times the projectile weight (60gr,) still mostly subsonic even out of long barrels. The only problem is that longer range work with them requires a faster barrel twist. Maybe something like an AR-15 with a .22 kit or dedicated upper and you're spitting them through a faster than 1:10 twist barrel? My understanding is that you can't really twist those things fast enough and it even opens the barrel up to the really high-grain .223 rounds. Upwards of 80 grains is possible with an AR-15, just sayin' guys...

Aguila Super Hyper Ultra .22 long rifle Extreme: This is the round they claim that meets the .22 magnum. The brass is too thin and tends to jam NAA revolvers from case head bulging. Not good. Even my bolt action rifles tend to stick on extraction with them.

Aguila High Velocity Short: Same thing.

If you have a .22 revolver with a very heavy cylinder (as far as weight,) you can better use these rounds. A lightweight cylinder pistol will tend to have case head swell and revolver tie-up. My semiautos aren't so keen on these rounds, either. I have an old US made H&R heavy cylinder revolver made in the 1950s that eats Aguila all day. The cylinder alone weighs probably five times what your average NAA complete pistol does. It isn't a concealment piece, though it is small.

My favorite NAA mini-master load? Federal Automatch. Accurate, reliable, conistent. They weren't too expensive before the crazy happened. Maybe they will come back down again one day? It used to be $15-$17 for 350, and they really cycled well through my finicky small autos and every single one of my NAAs, ever!

[Kentucky Kevin]

I used the 60 gr and decided to save the rest of the box to shot in my bearcat

[Uncle_Lee]

Hey Sandy! Hint, hint!

TGJ,
I would take a pair of those loooong Mini Masters also.
Or a pair of 9.5" Sidewinders.

[OV-1D]

TGJ,
I would take a pair of those loooong Mini Masters also.
Or a pair of 9.5" Sidewinders.
[/quote]

  Theres my hero again whining for two . Doesn't it get old try whining for four just for a change up . Wash those drawers don't forget .

[kmystry]

Hey fellas...as a side note:
I THINK ammo is sorta coming back in my area (southern Utah).  I picked up 100 Super Colibri sans powder rounds at a popular small local gun shop the other day.  Also, Sportsman's Warehouse on Friday here in St. George was selling cases of .223 and I got 200 rounds of CCI MiniMag.   My buddy snagged a brick of Remington .22 thunderbolts.  We were limited to two plastic boxes of the CCI and one brick of Remingtons. I was too late for that.

I'd like that "uberlong" Mini-Master.  Sweet! 

[TwoGunJayne]

I scored 200 rounds of CCI CB shorts for my NAA short last week. I intend to shoot every single one and "save the good stuff."