Hello from Michigan! New to NAA

[mdzcpa]

Hello All

Just a quick post to say hello, introduce myself, and gather a few opinions.  I'm relatively new to handguns (about 1.5 years).  But in that time I have gathered a few pistols, spent lots of time at the range, and a few months back secured my CPL in Michigan.  I carry every day now, either a M&P Shield in .40 when clothing permits, or my Ruger 380 LCP for deep concealment.  I also acquired the new Ruger LC380 for it's mild recoil, easy slide, and smooth operation at the range.  I sometimes carry that one as well.

As I was lurking around the local gun shops, looking on line and reading up on all the fine possibilities in firearms, I can accross the North American Arms minis.  To be honest I was immediately smitten by the pistols.  I read nothing but good things about the quality of these peices, and after assembly my other pistol collection for duty, the thought of something unique, collectible, and usable really peaked my interest.

I'm proud to announce my first NAA acquisition was new PUG. It is a dealer item with tritium sights and included the extra 22LR cylinder!!  So far all I've done is admire the pistol, but I plan to take it to the range soon.  I started with the PUG as I began to consider the possibility of it being a daily carry when I was lightly enough dressed that even the LCP wouldn't work.  But that's where I need advice. What is the consensus here about the 22MLR as a SD caliber?

[Kentucky Kevin]

Never met anyone willing to stand down range. 22lr instantly kills an alligator (swamp people). For me pants on = guns on. Practice will produce good accurcey. It beats thowing rocks or jabbing with a pencil. I came here because I was tired of reading that you can't hit the side of a barn, when I knew I was hitting shotgun shells at 10-12 feet most of the time. I don't carry the mag since I have insufficient practice ammo. Some people think I post to much without contributing. It is overall a good bunch of guys

[limapapa40]

Welcome MDZCPA. I carried the Pug in 22mag for several months until I got my Sidewinder. Now I carry it everyday. I was lucky enough to collect enought 22mag ammo to practice with it. Get a good pocket holster. You'll love the Pug.

[TwoGunJayne]

Put 400 rounds through it before you make any decision about it one way or the other. It's the "secret safety." The average new person who picks it up can hit nothing with it at fairly close ranges. Get your round count up and you'll easily win plinking contests.

Welcome to the party, pal!

ps: 1,500 is better. Get a stack of mainsprings from NAA, learn to change them out. Carry a mainspring with 200-500 rounds on it so it's tested for "real world" purposes. Mainsprings come and go, some are defective and don't last long. The gun itself is mostly a lifetime affair. You'll want to keep coming back to it.

[Dinadan]

SNIP
I'm proud to announce my first NAA acquisition was new PUG. It is a dealer item with tritium sights and included the extra 22LR cylinder!!  So far all I've done is admire the pistol, but I plan to take it to the range soon.  I started with the PUG as I began to consider the possibility of it being a daily carry when I was lightly enough dressed that even the LCP wouldn't work.  But that's where I need advice. What is the consensus here about the 22MLR as a SD caliber?

mdzcpa - welcome and congrats on a great NAA. I also started with the Pug. Regarding your question, I think that most of us agree that .357 magnum or .45 ACP is better than .22 WMR for self defense. However, since we often cannot or will not carry a heavy caliber, a NAA .22 WMR Mini in our pocket is worth two .45s back at home. I got my Pug because I was just not carrying the .357 that I bought for carry. Now I am almost always armed.

[RogueTS1]

Welcome to the group. If you are anything like the rest of the NAA world you will have more of them sooner than you think. Bigger is always better but the Pug with the right .22mag ammo will ruin anybody's day. I always carry a Pug in a hand made pocket holster as my got caught off guard gun BUG. "Give me your wallet. OK here it is" >>>>>>>>> Shoot him in the face with my supposed back pocketed wallet money.

[bigwheel]

Hearty welcome MD. Sounds like your getting some excellent advice here. The minis certainly have a role to play in helping good guys stay alive. What role seems to be the point of some heated and emotional based discussion. I tend to regard them as ancillary to the main battle weapon. I consider them for stand alone usage only for carrying around the house..taking out the trash..walking the cat around the block etc.  For ultimate concealment try the link below for packing your bigger guns..stick the mini n the shirt pocket or some other elusive and readily accessible location. Thats how i do it so its bound to be right.lol. Looking forward to your posts. Dont be a lurker.

http://www.smartcarry.com/

[bud]

mdzcpa,

I have both the pug and the black widow with both cylinders. I like both, and switch back and forth on carry option.

I have a son that lives in Holly Mich. Beautiful State!

[I]

Now you're going to want a Black Widow with the spare conversion cylinder!

[.54Cal_Kidd]

Welcome aboard! You've met some of the locals already, interesting and knowledgeable crew they are.
The FAQ has information on holsters, grips and ammo among other things.
I've got a mini in .22 and a Black Widow in .22 and I would have no problem carrying either for SD.
Shot placement is paramount no matter what caliber ya gots. I read a report on an officer that wound up shooting 33 rounds of .45 and hitting the perp 17 TIMES before he keeled over. Several mortal wounds but only the last 3 were fatal.
Like Hardtackwon said: Never met anyone willing to stand down range.
Remember, Robert Kennedy was killed by a .22.

[TwoGunJayne]

I read a report on an officer that wound up shooting 33 rounds of .45 and hitting the perp 17 TIMES before he keeled over.

...and even .22 short had a "one shot stop" rating by the (now discredited) Marshal and Sanow reports. They had science problems. Don't go by that info.

Put it where it counts. There are zero statistics for an opponent receiving muzzle flash, particularly to the face within 3 feet.

A magnum mini can always be carried.

[bigwheel]

Know all this right. I remember well the movie where Robert Dinero (sorry thought that was Al Pacino at one time..all Eyetalians look alike to us Scots huh?) The brown eyes are a dead giveaway.  Anyway this is the one where the well paid hitman went to S. America to do a hit and wound up doing the Rhumba with some brown breasted mattress thrashers in a ballroom dancing scenario. Then on getting out of Dodge unobtrusively he would drag the unfortunate bad guy po'pos into the crapper and give them one silent shot in the sternum with a stubby mini which killed them instantly. What was he shooting? Thanks. Where can I get one..or two..etc.

[TwoGunJayne]

Other members note: What bigwheel has just done is referred to as "dropping a chestnut" in some cultures.

It's a puzzle, trivia, question, riddle, or other things such as this.

To think about it is called "working over the old chestnut" or "cracking the old chestnut."

Once someone posts it, it's "cracked." It's done. Think about it a bit before some smarty posts the answer.

[OV-1D]

Know all this right. I remember well the movie where Robert Dinero (sorry thought that was Al Pacino at one time..all Eyetalians look alike to us Scots huh?) The brown eyes are a dead giveaway.  Anyway this is the one where the well paid hitman went to S. America to do a hit and wound up doing the Rhumba with some brown breasted mattress thrashers in a ballroom dancing scenario. Then on getting out of Dodge unobtrusively he would drag the unfortunate bad guy po'pos into the crapper and give them one silent shot in the sternum with a stubby mini which killed them instantly. What was he shooting? Thanks. Where can I get one..or two..etc

  That's where I seen it ......he had mercury filled tips on those 22 shells at least I think it was that movie .

[mdzcpa]

Thank you all for your responses.  From reading through the forums and posting on this thread I get the sense of a nice community here.  I am planning on carrying the PUG all the time regardless if I carry my other larger SD pistols or not.  This way I am always armed.  With summer approaching I may find myself on occasion with only the PUG, but I feel way better about that then only throwing rocks.  I have to concur with most of you that anyone hit with .22 LR or WMR is going to have a bad day.

And, as a few of you called it already, I've started to eyeball the Black Widow and Sidewinder
Is there an early intervention program for NAA obsession collection??  LOL

[lohman446]

A .22LR handgun is a horrible thing to have to depend on to defend your life. 


The problem that gets lost in these conversations is one of magnitude.  Just as the .22LR is a a horrible thing to defend your life with so is the 9MM, the .40, the .45, and the .357 MAG.  Concealable handguns, by the very nature of being concealable handguns and the trade-offs that come with such are uniquely underpowered.  Compare the energy carried by the great .45 with even the most anemic of deer rifles.  Then consider that a defensive handgun is likely to be fired straight on against an adrenalized attacker in such a manner that having to pass through the arm bones as well as the sternum is a real possibility.  Worse, unlike hunting, failure to immediatly stop the aggressive nature of the attacker may have dire and immediate consequences for the shooter. 

Truth be told I would prefer not to have to defend my life with any gun.  I would prefer to never be in a situation where violent defense of my life was even a consideration.  A handgun simply represents a series of decisions to best prepare for a situation we hope never exists.  Carrying a 12 gauge would be much more effective but has its own obvious issues. 

[TwoGunJayne]

The problem that gets lost in these conversations is one of magnitude.  Just as the .22LR is a a horrible thing to defend your life with so is the 9MM, the .40, the .45, and the .357 MAG.  Concealable handguns, by the very nature of being concealable handguns and the trade-offs that come with such are uniquely underpowered.  Compare the energy carried by the great .45 with even the most anemic of deer rifles.  Then consider that a defensive handgun is likely to be fired straight on against an adrenalized attacker in such a manner that having to pass through the arm bones as well as the sternum is a real possibility.  Worse, unlike hunting, failure to immediatly stop the aggressive nature of the attacker may have dire and immediate consequences for the shooter.

According to stats that I've read; alertness/awareness and proper attitude when preparing to display a firearm stops more situations than anything else. It's really hard to track this stuff as historically no paperwork is filed.

The .356 sig and .40 do extremely well with proper defensive ammunition as far as on-target performance. The FBI and the Secret Service can't be all THAT wrong. The key, even with those rounds, is shot placement. It literally matters more than anything else. I knew a guy who took his .40 out for hog hunting, though I told him he was crazy.

With that said, the lowly .22 lr from a handgun consistently shows up in the top 5 cartridges that terminated a human by numbers. That's not saying that it does it with a single hit.

Consider that a .22 magnum fmj from a 4" barrel passes the FBI's (excessive) minimum penetration test on bare gelatin. Also consider that a great many .22 magnum rounds from an NAA tumble inside the target, there are many gelatin tests you can reference that will demonstrate that.

Raw energy isn't everything, you must also have proper penetration. Once that's taken care of, effective energy transfer is your next issue. Energy transfer means nothing if it didn't penetrate deeply enough to make it worth the effort.

We have a great many opinions here and I'm not saying it's the same hand cannon as a .460 magnum handgun (more energy than several kinds of "deer rifles,") I'm just saying that I don't think I could get away with conceal carrying a 5 pound .460 magnum hand cannon, but I could carry a NAA pug (wrapped in a "Ranger Balloon") in a swim suit and nobody would ever know.

Always gun? .22 magnum 2" with fmj or Hornady CD for me, personal preferences. There are a WHOLE lot of 1", 1 1/8", and 1 5/8" carriers around here. ...and the hollowpoints versus fmj discussion rages on...

[bigwheel]

Well guess I understand this line of reasoning somewhat..and agree with some of the parts which is within my level of limited comprehension. Can surely agree getting in shoot outs is not a good plan if it can be avoided..and think most rational folks who knew for sure boogers was on the agenda would surely be packing all the hardware they own and maybe stop off and buy a few more items while n root. For happenstance encounters a smart person would be packing the most powerful handgun available which is fairly easily concealed. How the rifle got injected into the conversation..still aint figgered out yet..but will say on comparing apples to apples instead of apples to oranges..there are some great choices out there for an effective handgun round in a concealable package. My choice is my Sig 226 .40. Carried it in plain view on the hip for quite a few years and have shot it enough to know it shoots straighter than I do..and is really nasty to get shot with. Very easy transition to move from plain view to a hide out model. It can be carried total concealed in several configurations and to fit all scenarios. Big guns make me feel better. Everything is bigger and better in Texas ya know? lol .
 

A .22LR handgun is a horrible thing to have to depend on to defend your life. 


The problem that gets lost in these conversations is one of magnitude.  Just as the .22LR is a a horrible thing to defend your life with so is the 9MM, the .40, the .45, and the .357 MAG.  Concealable handguns, by the very nature of being concealable handguns and the trade-offs that come with such are uniquely underpowered.  Compare the energy carried by the great .45 with even the most anemic of deer rifles.  Then consider that a defensive handgun is likely to be fired straight on against an adrenalized attacker in such a manner that having to pass through the arm bones as well as the sternum is a real possibility.  Worse, unlike hunting, failure to immediatly stop the aggressive nature of the attacker may have dire and immediate consequences for the shooter. 

Truth be told I would prefer not to have to defend my life with any gun.  I would prefer to never be in a situation where violent defense of my life was even a consideration.  A handgun simply represents a series of decisions to best prepare for a situation we hope never exists.  Carrying a 12 gauge would be much more effective but has its own obvious issues.

[TwoGunJayne]

http://naaminis.com/smf/index.php?topic=3602.msg57228#msg57228

[heyjoe]

i would put my money on the guy carrying the NAA mini who practices, develops muscle memory with the gun, knows whereto aim to get the bullet is going to hit where he wants it to vs. the guy who carries a .40 on his hip or iwb and never practices, who is overly confident  because of the caliber he carries. no contest in my opinion.

[OV-1D]

  Accuracy always beats speed and caliber just watch Matt Dillon on GunSmoke on the intro .

[TwoGunJayne]

Updated, heyjoe. Rule #6.

[bigwheel]

Well Marshall Dillion became quite a scandal at our house when him and Chester gunned down the outlaws who was holding Miss Kitty hostage...in cold blood...shot em right off the porch of the cabin I think and Chester had a twice barrel maybe?  I thought it seemed like a good plan. My Mama and Daddy did not like it. Then my Mama got to noticing when Matt shot some poor misguided sinner the target expire each and every time. You was supposed to just wing em like Gene and Roy did..lol. Paladin was bat about shooting folks fatally too. I always liked the Cisco Kid. He just grave the top of their skull with a .45 LC? and knock em out for while. Nobody had to die.

[OV-1D]

  U.S. Marshall's are allowed to shoot that way...... who's left to question them .  Now they took them off horses and put them on airplanes .

[bigwheel]

All the deputy US Marshalls I ever heard about winded up in deevorce court because they was off gallavanting around on airplanes too much for a family type life. I seen some full fledged Marshalls but did not get to know one. That job is probably about as political as getting appointed as the Post Mistress of Newcastle.

[heyjoe]

Updated, heyjoe. Rule #6.

im honored

[Kentucky Kevin]

Real world, car hits deer, deer not dead. Berretta minx 22 short in head, deer dead. Minx unfaithful, traded for case mower. Carry NAA revolver FAITHFUL and ALWAYS avilable