Cailifornia strikes again

Bigbird48 · May-22-13 11:05

In a controversial move that some believe will essentially lead to a de facto ban on semi-automatic handguns, Attorney General Kamala Harris announced that, effective immediately, all new semi-automatic firearms sold in the State of California will require a unique microstamp on every shell ejected when a gun is fired.

Microstamping, or ballistic imprinting, is a technology patented in the 1990′s by engineer and NRA member Todd Lizotte. When a gun is fired, a tiny engraving on the firing pin etches a microscopic identifier onto the cartridge as it is expended by the firearm.

The law, which requires every semi automatic gun sold in the state to imprint the gun's serial number on the cartridge, was signed into law by former California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger in 2007 and was delayed due to patent stipulations in the legislation.

The legislation specified that it would take effect only when the technology was available and all private patents had expired.

But at a Los Angeles news conference Friday, Harris announced that micro-stamping had cleared all technological and patenting hurdles and would be required on newly sold semiautomatics, effective immediately.

"The patents have been cleared, which means that this very important technology will help us as law enforcement in identifying and locating people who have illegally used firearms," Harris said.

According to proponents of the legislation, ballistic micro-stamping will help law enforcement investigators track down firearms used in the commission of crimes:

Attorney Benjamin Van Houten of San Francisco's Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence said the announcement should send a message to other states, the Obama administration and the gun industry that "this is the future and it's really critical to helping law enforcement solve gun crimes."

Implementation of micro-stamping "moves California to the forefront of the nation in combatting gun crime," said the law's author, former Assemblyman Mike Feuer, D-Los Angeles, who attended the news conference and is running for city attorney.

It's not clear exactly how a firearm that has been illegally purchased, such as through straw buyers who purchased semi-automatic rifles to Mexican drug cartels from federal agents in Operation Fast and Furious, could help track down criminals using untraceable guns in the commission of a crime.

In addition to being ineffective in tracking gun crimes, NRA attorney C.D. Michel suggests that with firearm sales across the country already putting overwhelming demand on gun manufacturers, the new California law could lead to widespread shortages of handguns in the state:

"This is not going to help solve crimes," he said. "It's easily defeated, easily wears out and can be used to lead police down false alleys" if the serial numbers are altered.

Worse yet, Michel said, manufacturers will be unwi

TwoGunJayne · May-22-13 12:05

Ahh yes, ballistics forensics... the "TSA Security theater" of forensics.

Nobody told AttnGnl Harris that ballistics forensics yield false positives. Nobody told the politicos about sandpaper either. This will fix nothing, create a new layer of taxation and legislation with zero benefit to society. It might even falsely incarcerate someone.

Are they planning on banning replacement firing pins and extractors next? Time to buy stock in some "firing pin" companies...

So what happens when the microstamping wears away from normal use? Is the gun owner a criminal now?

Bigbird48 · May-22-13 13:05

the only thing this will do is make guns and ammo more expensive for everyone. The ammo and gun mfg's will pass the cost on to everybody not just California residents, and of course the only ones that it will effect is law abiding people, because the crooks will import guns from other states, they will file down hammers , replace firing pins, buy ammo out of state. Whatever. Do these idiots who make and pass these laws ever look at what they're doing. Do they even have a mind that can comprehend that these stupid laws they make up will have ZERO effect on what their trying to accomplish . It just shows the mentality of the people who vote these idiots into office. I'm sure they have every good intention at heart but are just too blind to see that these laws will have no effect. Duhhhh

TwoGunJayne · May-22-13 13:05

It's stuff like this that makes me feel that every 50 years or so we need to put every law (aside from core documents) in a big pile, set them on fire, and start fresh.

Our system is getting progressively crapped up with this stuff... layer upon layer of bureaucracy, waste, and taxation without representation.

Now that over half the price of guns and ammo is tax (plus sales tax, the tax on your income in the first place and so on,) do I get an extra vote or two as a gun owner?

Taxation without representation: It was one of the reasons to start the War of Independence.

SteveZ-FL · May-22-13 13:05

What's even funnier would be if current gun contracts between CA LE organizations and gun providers do not call for such micro stamp capability. Manufacturers are not required to honor unilateral contract amendments to provide this capability on new units. If the manufacturers don't take such amendments, then the CA LE organizations will need waivers from some state authorities for new units which can't microstamp. If the LE organizations get waivers, then there will be complaints that the rules only apply to the citizenry and not the government. Curiouser and curiouser...

boone123 · May-22-13 18:05

How many brands of new semi autos will no longer be sold in the stupid land of Calif.?
Should up the sales of black market guns bigtime.

MR_22 · May-22-13 18:05

What a cool idea on paper--and a nightmare in practice.

If the serial number is engraved, how is that going to tell what type of gun fired it? There could easily be multiple copies of serial numbers on different brands of guns. And it would be SO EASY to file down the end of the firing pin and nobody would be able to easily check it. And how do you special order a replacement firing pin? That's going to be nightmare. And how long does the stamp on the firing pin last? 1000 rounds? What then? How expensive is the microprinting on the pin going to cost? And it's immediately effective? BAM, no gun sales for months or even years in CA.

WOW. Stupid stupid stupid. Hey Californians, GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN! Soon they will make it illegal to move out, because they want your tax dollars!

Bigbird48 · May-22-13 19:05

@22
OK first off I'm pretty sure each gun mfg has its own unique serial number setup just for the reason you mentioned. I don't think there are duplicate serial numbers out there. Second I don't think its a cool idea at all. For all the reasons I stated in my first post. It only affects us the law abiding citizens. The crooks will find every way possible to have weapons that don't have this microchip and third the cost will be passed on to everyone everywhere except of course the crooks that just steal most their guns anyway.

TwoGunJayne · May-23-13 05:05

Quote
I don't think there are duplicate serial numbers out there.

(sarcasm)

Yeah, 25 gun makers who don't talk to each other wouldn't possibly make a mistake. Neither would the ATF! I'm sure it would work flawlessly 100% and won't increase the price of anything. GENIUS!

(/sarcasm)

OV-1D · May-23-13 07:05

Our government is always great at putting the cart ahead of the horse . Why they REFUSE to address the issue of all these lawless people doing lawless things is beyond me . Maybe we MUST get to a state of marital law in order to address this growing problem . KILL THE KILLERS is the only way to bring back a state of goodwill amongst us . Laws for laws for laws will not and never has changed the killers minds and their acts of violence and still the leaders of our country don't get it , evidently their afraid of losing their miserable worths . It's not a board game anymore and it's out of control if it ever was . Our system of government is bulging at the seams and it's got to blow and us good people are the ones who are going to suffer , our wealthy government leaders will have one up on us being they have the backup to get them through the terrible times ahead . We don't have to worry about nuclear holocaust we have to worry about our own government failing and our ability to import food for most of it is anymore . It will be a black market world for years , sounds like a t.v. series doesn't it , but if things continue as is it's a sure thing down the line . Our commercial system has already shown it's worth with bailouts with money that doesn't exist , how long before that can't happen again , it's already wavering ready to fail again , only till more fat cats get more out of it will it fall again . Dam I hate thinking this way , it's not the way it should be , but it's hard to changes greed and big ego's with beer monies . ENOUGH !!!!!

grayelky · May-23-13 15:05

Quote from: boone123 on May-22-13 18:05
How many brands of new semi autos will no longer be sold in the stupid land of Calif.?
Should up the sales of black market guns bigtime.

Part of their plan. Make it so expensive to sell guns in CA, it is not cost effective to do business.

Perhaps they should look to NJ, and the other state(s) who used to require a fired case so the handgun could be registered. This way, the gun could be traced back to the owner if a piece of brass was found at the crime scene. After 11 years, no traces were ever made.

OV-1D · May-23-13 15:05

Any lasting and meaningful legislation by government officials has and always will be a miserable failure , everything after the signing of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights , the first and only meaningful and lasting documented legislation , has been a downhill roll ever since . They just make more laws to keep governments ability to grow larger and larger and richer and richer forever and ever . Were reverting back to the early days of the beginning of England and beyond .

G50AE · May-23-13 18:05

I see more revolvers being sold in CA, which don't leave shell casings behind. Meaning that the tracing "system" can't work.

Bigbird48 · May-23-13 19:05

The Gun mfg's should just pull out of Ca. and the heck with them. if they want to be so stupid to enact stupid , meaningless, unenforceable laws, then don't sell guns in Ca.
Andthey wonder why they are broke Duhhhh!!

Kentucky Kevin · May-24-13 07:05

The problem is n ot that polititions can not see, the CHOSE not to see, same situation that happens when looking at Jesus.

G50AE · May-24-13 15:05

Quote from: Bigbird48 on May-23-13 19:05
The Gun mfg's should just pull out of Ca. and the heck with them. if they want to be so stupid to enact stupid , meaningless, unenforceable laws, then don't sell guns in Ca.
Andthey wonder why they are broke Duhhhh!!

I do understand that sentiment, but I don't totally agree. I think we do need people in California fighting back against this silliness. Giving up and running is not a good strategy.

SteveZ-FL · May-24-13 16:05

Trying to fight the CA silliness is like trying to teach a pig to whistle. If they want the place to be a big commune of druggies, derelicts and deadbeats, it's their choice. Eventually the earthquakes and Santa Ana fires will prevail, since the populace will be too stoned and broke to care.

Bigbird48 · May-24-13 16:05

Who's fighting anything out there they just make and pass laws without even asking the people what they think.No constitution no free speech, more taxes then you can shake a stick at .Stupid liberal politicians , would anybody miss Cail if it broke off and floated away. No I didn't think so.

Kevin · May-25-13 01:05

This foolishness generated several ideas:

Pre-microstamped used cases to scatter at the scene of your illegal shooting. Remember those valentine candy hearts with the different sayings printed on them. Imagine the market for bags of mixed cases pre-microstamped "property of Eric Holder", "FOAD ATF", or "Hope and Change". If the law extends to semi-auto shotguns, 12 gauge cases might be big enough to microstamp "I voted for Joe Biden and all I got was this lousy double-barrel shotgun".

Swappable microstamping plates. You can get custom slide cover plates and magazine base plates, why not stamp your cases with "Don't Tread on Me" flags or "007 - Bond, James Bond" when you shoot?

Quick-change stamping gun parts. "If the serial number check fails, you must set bail."

A gun manufacturer could "load up" the microstamping section of their factory with workers "on the fast Obama track to citizenship" who misunderstand the English instructions and create a big batch of semi-autos that all have the same serial number. Time that with a big order to a major CA law enforcement agency and watch the hilarity ensue.

Caseless ammunition, anyone?

Uncle_Lee · May-25-13 04:05

Somebody is electing those stupid politicians.
Stupider people I think.
More people vote for them than against them.
So this must be what most of the people out there want.
Must be something in the water they pipe in.

Bigbird48 · May-25-13 09:05

@ Kevin
Thanks so much Kevin I needed that laugh today

Maybe you should put that in the humor section also. That was outstanding.

mhg · May-26-13 17:05

I want the concession to police the brass at the range for the LEO shooting ranges
Can you imagine the market for the casings from there
20 casings for 20 dollars, frame your local sheriff
Got a speeding ticket from a trooper? Have him thrown in jail for attempted murder before your court date. Got a beef with a neighbor, get a couple casings from his gun off the range, fire a couple rounds near the donut shop where the LEO's are hanging. Leave the pilfered casings and no more problems.
A whole new industry has just been born.
Mike
ps. I'm just kidding around, would never even consider doing something so devious

poncho · May-27-13 09:05

I read there is new legislation coming up that stops PPT sales in calif.
Maybe I read it here I don't remember. But it was the only way I could purchase an naa 32 legally.

MR_22 · May-27-13 09:05

Quote from: Bigbird48 on May-22-13 19:05
@22
OK first off I'm pretty sure each gun mfg has its own unique serial number setup just for the reason you mentioned. I don't think there are duplicate serial numbers out there. Second I don't think its a cool idea at all. For all the reasons I stated in my first post. It only affects us the law abiding citizens. The crooks will find every way possible to have weapons that don't have this microchip and third the cost will be passed on to everyone everywhere except of course the crooks that just steal most their guns anyway.

There's absolutely NO WAY that all gun manufacturers coordinate serial numbers. It's impossible--especially when you consider back 100 or 150 years or more, or back to when serial numbers began to be used. Each gun manufacturer is in charge of their own serial numbers. There is no national or global serial number coordinator. It's just not practical.

Identifying a gun is done by serial and make and model. If anybody has evidence to dispute that, I'd love to see it!

(BTW, the serial number on each of my Early Bird Sidewinders is 2 letters and 3 numbers. With the billions of guns produced thus far, there is simply NO WAY that ANY 5-digit serial number would still be available if all serial numbers were coordinated.)

TwoGunJayne · May-27-13 20:05

Fire a dirty (as in dirt) bullet, your barrel scratches are changed. The Oswald rifle was test fired so much that it's original ballistics were obliterated.

This "micro stamping" technology will suffer the same burden. A gun changes over thounsands of rounds. It's a fact.

Kevin55 · June-12-13 06:06

The beauty of this state is offset by the stupidity of the politicians.

Immigration policy... I strongly suggest you keep Californians from immigrating to your state. They will spend half of their time bitching about how bad California has become. The other half making their new state as messed up like California.

We have an abundance of libertards that have never done any work harder than move ideas around on paper. I look forward to the whining when their jobs are offshored or taken by unregistered immigrants.

Does anyone have statistics on how many guns registered to their owners are used in robberies and shootings? Aren't most stolen or Strawman purchases or imported by gun runners? We do have a serious gun runner problem and we need to figure out a way to put bad gun dealers out of business.

Kevin55 · June-12-13 07:06

California makes manufactures pass a safety test to be sold. Every model must be tested, even if the difference is slightly different. One reason why NAA only sells the 1-1/8 barrel mini revolvers and not the 1-5/8 models. Someone said the MiniMaster can be purchased as it is a revolver, single action, and has a 4" barrel. I would really like a Black Widow, but you can't get one out here.

Semi-automatics need to have a firing pin block, so they won't fire if dropped. KelTec won't sell handguns in CA anymore.