Why the .32 and Not the 25 NAA?

[naalover]

I asked about the Guardian in another thread, and many people have mentioned they own the .32 Guardian. I'm curious as to why there are no mentions of the 25 NAA given that it is a much more powerful round?

   

   Here's my opinion of the 25 NAA:

   

   

[jsan]

Very nice!  Who made the dies?  I was interested in getting a .25NAA but never found one anywhere in my area.  I did come across a thread here about someone having a .25NAA and experiencing poor reliability due to ammo problems at Corbon.  Seems this little round isn't as popular as its bigger brother .32NAA.

[chopprs]

I do not have either but if I did buy one it would be a .25. I have had many .25 auto pitols in the past and while the projectile is fine there is just not enough power behind it. This fixes that problem and makes a little gun very desireable to me. The issues IMO appear to be with the ammo and not the gun and I am sure will be addressed or possibly can by the firearm owner with a simple fluff and buff. I am guessing but it really does not seem like a big issue.

    On the other hand the .32 compared to other guns in it's category seems to be big and heavy and has a terrible trigger pull. I understand the benefits of the .32NAA but I would just buy something like  Kahr P380 or a Kel-tec or a Ruger as I am sure they work and I have shot them all and they are all great guns.......just my .02 cents!

[billinpittsburg]

I am generally not a fan of newer, limited-supplier calibers over older, well-established, widely available calibers.  However, the .25 NAA is one caliber I would like to see really take off.

   

   .32 is a semi-rimmed cartridge, with all of the feed reliability issues that come with a rim.  Fortunately these issues do not seem to be prevalent in NAA guns.

   

   .25 NAA is a true rimless cartridge, which should, combined with the bottleneck design, result in a cartridge having excellent feed reliability in the smallest pocket pistols.

   

   The reliability and availability issues are far more critical to me than theoretical differences in stopping power.

[sirbarkalot]

How is it the 25NAA is rimless when it supposedly has the 32 ACP as a parent case?  Did they modify it when they made it with the new head stamp?

   

   Please elaborate.  this is the first I have heard of that.

   

   thanks

   

   Barky

[chopprs]

Hhhhmmm, I would like to hear this one to...?!?!?!

[bobt]

I am still interested in the .25 NAA but the cost and limited availability of the ammo are my main concerns. Also it depends on how you conceptualize 'power'. The .25 NAA will give more kinetic energy and, with a solid RN bullet better penetration. The .32 auto develops more momentum.

[chopprs]

I forgot to mention that I like the smaller frame of the .25/.32 as well.

[sirbarkalot]

there is one on Gunbroker for a good price with ammo at fair price offered as an extra cost option.......

   

   Makes my bidding finger itch!

   

   I have two guns at my dealer to pick up tomorrow and another 32 H&R magnum on the way so I really should not.............

   

   

   someone tell me I should not......

   

   .............

   

   ...........

   

   Anyone???............

[sirbarkalot]

By the way NAALOVER; do you handload for the 25 NAA?  Do you know if you can use 32 acp cases and form them?  Those little cases are sure hard to find in my forest shooting range with all the leaves all over the ground.  I have just about given up trying to find 32 ACP,,,,,  but I have a lot of them..... and 25 bullets are available.....  

   

   Just thinking and looking for input......

   

   

   Any information on this is sure welcome

   

   Barky

[heyjoe]

you should Barky you should! oops not what you were looking for.

[heyjoe]

even the buy now price is decent. never fired. good deal.

[naalover]

Barky,

   

   I had a conversation with one of the loaders over at CorBon last week. He mentioned that, with a full-length reshaping die, I should be able to neck the cases down myself.  

   

   We were discussing the 32 NAA, so I'm going to call about the 25 NAA, but I got the dies in order to reload the ones I'll be shooting during evaluation.  

   

   For the 32 NAA, you just neck down a 380 case to accept the 32 bullets. I don't know how many grains of what type of powder to use, but I'll be finding out all those details.

   

   I've never reloaded before, so this is all going to be a new experience for me. From my calculations, each round of 32 NAA should cost 31 cents to produce--assuming I don't screw too many up.

[naalover]

Jsan, there's only one company I found which produces dies for the 25 NAA, and it's CH Tool and DIe http://www.ch4d.com/">http://www.ch4d.com/

   

   They're expensive, but should last for many thousands of rounds.

[sirbarkalot]

Lee has the 32 naa on their web page under close outs at 34 dollars.  If Lee is 34 dollars, 78 is not really out of line for CH.

   

   Thanks for the info

   

   Barky

[heyjoe]

did you bid on it? i was thinking of it, got home too late today.

[laa]

It was my thread about feeding & ejection problems from the Corbon 25NAA ammo.  Corbon has been great to deal with and they are replacing all 25 boxes of ammo even though I had already fired 10 boxes and was only able to return 15 boxes.  Unfortunately, though, Corbon still has not gone into production on the 25 NAA.  This is part of the problem with finding a Guardian 25 NAA.  The Guardian 25 NAA's were out of production for several years.  NAA started production again about 6 months ago.  This is when I bought mine.  My understanding is tha NAA and Corbon are out of ammo so NAA is unable to test fire the guns when they come off the line.  No test fire means no shipments of 25 NAA's. As far as comparison to .32, I think the ballistic reports show the 25 NAA is a better round than he .32.  Higher velocity = better penetration, better expansion and better accuracy.  Compared to my Seecamp .32 (which was the model for the Guardian .32), I prefer the .25NAA (when I can get ammo).

[jsan]

Thanks, Naalover.  Since I don't have the .25NAA pistol, I'll not order a set of dies.  

   

   Loading up the .32NAA is pretty easy (I have the Lee dies).  Loaded up a batch of them by necking down .380 cases.  I'll not give out any load data, but I started out with a .32acp sized powder charge and worked my way up.  Unfortunately, I do not have a chronograph, so it was a little hard to make a decent loading.  I erred on the side of being a lighter powder charge and it is fine for practice.  I do have the problem of the bullets being pushed back into the cases from the recoil, so I'm looking into getting a cannelure tool so I can roll crimp the case and hopefully solve the problem.

[therevjay]

It's not as popular mostly because, most people do not reload and it's hard to find because (so far) there is only one gun chambered for it.

[paladin]

I hope Corbon or someone else offers FMJ/hardball ammo for the .25NAA.  

   

   If they also offer a JHP in the range of 62 to 71gr for a sectional density of .140 to .160 that would be far better than .079 of their current 35gr JHP offering. It would make sure the bullet penetrates far enough to hit vitals even when the HP expands.

[apple_a]

I think a 25naa breaktop(or removable cylinder) would be amazing.(moonclips!) i guess a .25acp conversion cylinder`would be a practical idea. you could possibly make it(the .25acp) a six shooter.(not sure if it would fit an extra round and could be made to time right?) but in a perfect world......

[sirbarkalot]

Don't need moon clips.  Both 32 acp and 25 acp are semi-rimmed and have been used in revolvers before..........  And since parent case for 25NAA is a 32 ACP case, it should be semi-rimmed as well.

[bobt]

Bottleneck cartridges do not work well in revolvers so the .25 NAA is a poor choice for the BT revolver. The .25 acp is expensive and has little advantage over the .22 mag.

[bigalum]

As to .25 NAA being rimless or semi-rimmed, J.B. Woods himself says his original .25-.32 ACP was not a reliable feeder, so NAA modified their .32 ACP cases to a rimless design.

   

   "At this point, North American wisely

   consulted noted ballistician Ed Sanow and the

   wizards at Cor-Bon. Using longer, uncut .32 Auto

   brass, they moved the shoulder further up the case

   and also made the case head rimless. The more

   stable case also had more powder capacity. Thus,

   the .25 NAA was born." - http://www.naaminis.com/news09.pdf">http://www.naaminis.com/news09.pdf

   Right from NAA's information sites...

   I hope this clears up any questions.

[bigalum]

I really don't think this cartridge is going to take off unless some other manufacturer chambers a pistol for it. I hope it happens soon - I really like this one, and I'm not normally one to dink around with wildcats. I've even thought about modifying an existing .32 with a new barrel, but most .32's are a little bigger than the pocket .25's, so I think I'll wait for a good SA pocket pistol in .25 NAA to come along.

[kwb]

I don't like the fact that these 2 proprietary cartridges are so expensive and hard to locate but can and will live with this fact. I'm after the .25 Guardian. To me even a .25 Auto round is prohibitively expensive to "target" practice with. Neither one of these frame sizes spells plinker to me.

   

   I'll take .22 magnum type power in a 14 ounce pistol. My plinking with get accomplished with my Mini-revolver. My PDW is something I don't care to nickle and dime with. My piece of mind doesn't come cheaply.

   

   Whatever floats anyone's boat.