NAA .32 vs Seecamp

[adsinger]

I'm thinking of adding a .32 auto to the arsenal. I've got three NAA revolvers, but no experience with the Guardian line. I am trying to decide between the Guardian and the Seecamp. I'm hoping someone here has owned/used both or can point me to a comparison or has a strong opinion one way or the other.

Thanks.

Alan.

[PRM]

I favor the NAA for cost and its ability to digest a wider range of ammo. My Guardian has run every type of .32 ACP I've tried with zero problems. Seecamps are known to be more ammo picky. 

[grayelky]

I fill 2 of your 3 requirements: I own a Seecamp .32 and I have strong opinions. I have handled numerous Guardians, but have never fired one. I suspect they will have less felt recoil than the Seecamp, as they are noticeably heavier, and a little larger. The larger grip will make controlling the recoil easier, thus making it seem to have less recoil. It is a fact the Seecamps are ammo picky. The Seecamp was designed around the Winchester Silvertip, the only self defense .32 ammo on the market when it was designed. It shoots it very well. Mine also handles Speer Gold Dot and Hornady Critical Defense quite nicely. These 3 are recommended by Seecamp, as is another one, which escapes me at the moment. There is only one brand of FMJ they will feed. I made no attempt to remember it, as I do not plan on shooting FMJ from my Seecamp. What practice I do will be with carry ammo. The Guardian has much better sights, as the Seecamp has NONE! The top of the Seecamp is completely smooth. That did not stop me from destroying an empty .22 mag box at 7 or 8 feet with mine. What I like is the very small size of the Seecamp. It is even smaller than the KelTec P32 I got years and years ago. It would be perfect if it were lighter than the P32. The Seecamp points extremely well in my hand, and it just feels like a very well made firearm. As small as it is, I have no trouble controlling it. The quality of both guns is very high, no complaints on either.

Based on what I know about both, I do not think you will go wrong with either one. If the check book is a big factor, get the Guardian. Both guns can be found on gunbroker.com, but it takes a fair bit of luck to get a good deal on a Seecamp. If you are very inexperienced, consider the Guardian, as it will be easier to shoot. If you do not like heavier guns, get the Seecamp. I think the Seecamp is nicer finished than the Guardian, as it is more "polished". That of course is subjective. You may prefer a more matte finish, in which case you may like the Guardian better. Do let us know which you pick, and why. Like I tell my customers: If you have a hard time choosing, buy both!!

[adsinger]

Thanks for the replies and the good info. I have handled the Guardian but not the Seecamp. They are not generally seen at dealers around here (Jax, FL), I'll need to search one out at a gun show.  I currently carry a magnum Pug which replaced a Ruger LCP that I positively hated. Since I now have three NAA guns, I'm leaning towards the Guardian, it's just the shiny, pretty of the Seecamp brings out my inner Magpie.

Alan.

[Teddydogno1]

NAA has some custom work they can do on your Guardian.  I want to do the carry/melt package where the remove the sights and round all of the corners.  They also offer polishing, frame checkering and extra slide serrations.

Rob

[TwoGunJayne]

Also consider that the Guardian is still in production, while the Seecamp has been mentioned as this pistol that is "sort of available" for some years now...

Semi-custom and full production are strange games.

[heyjoe]

Seecamps are in full production. i have 4 of them.two 380 acp, one 32acp and one 25 acp never had a problem getting one. had to wait a couple of months. they are available. msrp for 32 acp seecamp is$446.25.  the Guardian is $402.

[TwoGunJayne]

Wow. I haven't seen one since the 90s.

[G50AE]

Wow. I haven't seen one since the 90s.

Me neither, I thought they had gone the way of the Davis P380.

[theysayimnotme]

NAA has some custom work they can do on your Guardian.  I want to do the carry/melt package where the remove the sights and round all of the corners.  They also offer polishing, frame checkering and extra slide serrations.

Rob

If you want to make it more like the Seecamp why not just buy a Seecamp in the first place? I wanted the meltdown but with the shipping the cost was far too much. I finally found one on consignment that was already melted & only cost about what the meltdown & shipping would cost.
I would be hard pressed to call the bumps on the slide "sights". Seecamp got it right to begin with. Maybe a small front sight but that is all that is needed.

[boone123]

I have both in 32s. So what does that mean? To me it means, life is good!

[cfsharry]

Boone,

I do not own either. Have a buddy with a Seecamp in .380 which I have shot. An extremely well made pistol. Have never shot a Guardian.
How about a 'first person' comparison of your two guns. What do you like and dislike about each? If you had to give up one, which would it be?

[boone123]

CF---
Ask a mother which kid she loves the most. Thats me and guns. I am a shooter so because it has sights, I shoot the Guardian the most, but I love the smooth cuddly feel of the Seecamp in  my pocket with my hand on it.
Having both removes any stress related to only having just one of them. If I had to part with one, I would probably keep the Seecamp, because I would still have all my other North American Arms guns. Also Guardians are easyer to find.

Nobody asked\, but today I already shot 3 ripe tomatos, some old apples, some shunk crap, 4 flies, bunch of cow pies, miscellaneous dirt clods sticking out of a mud hole and rocks off an old road. None of the above with a 32..

[Maccab]

I hadn't heard of it, so I had a peek at their website and on youtube. It looks similar to the Guardian, the .32Acp model, the .380Acp seems smaller than the Guardian it says retarded blowback but I couldn't see upon perusing it briefly why it wasn't just a straight blowback. In which case how have they made it smaller, then I wondered about the rifling was it Vp70 style. Does anyone know? I might have just missed something.

[Maccab]

http://www.seecamp.com/products.htm

http://northamericanarms.com/firearms/32guard/32guard.html

http://northamericanarms.com/firearms/380guard/380guardian.html

Seecamp 32
Weight No Mag. 10.45 oz.
Weight w/Empty Mag 11.5 oz.
Cartridge Capcity 6 + 1
Caliber .32ACP
Height 3.25"
Slide Width .725"
Grip Width .86"
Length on Axis 4.25"
Action DAO - Retarded Blowback
Trigger Pull 11.5 lbs.
Frame Material Stainless
Slide Material Stainless

Seecamp 380
Weight No Mag. 10.50 oz.
Weight w/Empty Mag 11.45 oz.
Cartridge Capcity 6 + 1
Caliber .380ACP
Height 3.25"
Slide Width .725"
Grip Width .91"
Length on Axis 4.25"
Action DAO - Retarded Blowback
Trigger Pull 11.5 lbs.
Frame Material Stainless
Slide Material Stainless

Part Number NAA-380 GUARDIAN
Caliber 380
Capacity 6 + 1
Barrel Length 2.49"
Overall Length 4.75"
Overall Height 3.53"
Width 0.930"
Weight Unloaded 18.72 oz

Part Number NAA-32 GUARDIAN
Caliber 32
Capacity 6 + 1
Barrel Length 2.49"
Overall Length 4.75"
Overall Height 3.53"
Width 0.930"
Weight Unloaded 13.5 oz

[Maccab]

Seecamp 32: Weight w/Empty Mag 11.5 oz.

Seecamp 380: Weight w/Empty Mag 11.45 oz.

Naa 32: Weight Unloaded 13.5 oz

Naa 380: Weight Unloaded 18.72 oz

Direct blowbacks operate by slide weight/spring resistance etc so I don't understand... The sizes either, how does a .380 weigh so much similar to a .32?

Has anyone chronographed a Seecamp .380 in comparison to a NAA .380, he was a German military chap.

I didn't see a locking method "retarding method" gas delay or etc so I think it might be the rifling the .380 Seecamp has reduced power via the rifling perhaps. Unless NAA models are just heavy and large comparatively but that seems uncompetitive although the price would suggest otherwise or there is a locking system I've missed or I've not read the above data right.

[ikoiko]

" The sizes either, how does a .380 weigh less than a .32?"

One way is that assuming the same basic parts are used, things such as the barrel will be thinner for a .380 than for a .32. Larger hole for a .380, therefore less metal & weight for a larger caliber.

Same barrel blank used for both pistols, one has a larger hole=> less metal, less weight.
Not sure how the rest of the components figure in.

[Maccab]

I see what your saying ikoiko, but how is it a retarded blowback design... In which case, it... Well no, maybe NAA's are just bigger etc for no reason, given the only reason I could see was in regards the weight required for a direct blowback system. I'll try and find more information... Do you see what I'm saying? Why would NAA make a .380 bigger than it needed to be for "pocket carry gun" there might be a reason.

That Vp70 rifling would do it though, you could make a .32 sized Guardian fire .380 by it losing velocity I think.

[Maccab]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9721mm_IMI

That Vp70 looks chunkier than required for a direct blowback in Mp5 cal 9mm so if it used this "chunky'ness" to control that more powerful round, with the gas loss... Retarding it, if you will... It would probably fire that bullet as fast as a 9x19mm i.e. the loss would be made up for thus. It was supposed to be 9mm Luger not 9x21mm if you follow me, see? If it was fired normally, 9x21mm would be a more powerful round and require a locking mechanism.

[theysayimnotme]

The subject of the weights of the NAA & Seecamp .380s was much cussed & discussed when they both came out.
As best I recall Seecamp stated their .380 was not designed for extensive use & they kept the weight to a minimum for it's intended purpose. NAA upsized theirs for the added recoil & extended life.
I tried to find those old comments from Seecamp but no sucess.

[Maccab]

Oh right, possible I suppose. But I still don't get why they say it's a retarded blowback then, anyway... That Vp70 rifling might work in a Guardian, it would effectively fire a .380 at .32 speed but the bullet would be larger, out of a .32 sized frame... As is my understanding, he he.

[I]

Wait... At first I thought it was an insult. Then I realized the synonym of "delayed blowback" oh, ok.

I don't have a schematic handy. If it is delayed, then by what? Roller locks? Toggle? What? Anyone know the Seecamp guts?

[cfsharry]

Boone,

Thanks. Mother/child thing a great answer.
By the by, how the heck do you know it was skunk crap???

[Maccab]

Ammo picky, hmmm...

"One watched a Youtube video I, and that particular model certainly didn't appear to be Toggle locked"

Heyjoe, you own a .380 model. Would you be so kind as to divulge how if at all it's a delayed blowback design?

[heyjoe]

Chamber Ring Delayed



here is a  detailed explanation (not mine)
When a metallic cartridge is fired, the cartridge case expands slightly and seals off that side of the chamber and prevents gas escaping that way. Therefore, in all breechloading guns, the diameter of the firing chamber is slightly larger than the unfired cartridge case's diameter, so that the cartridges are easier to load. In a chamber ring delayed action, the back of the firing chamber has a ring around it on the inside, which makes the front of the firing chamber have a slightly larger diameter than the back of the chamber. So when the cartridge is fired, it expands to fill the chamber. However, since the front of the chamber has wider diameter, the front of the cartridge expands more than the back. Now when the cartridge is being pushed backwards by the expanding gases, the front of the empty case, which is now expanded to a larger diameter, rubs against the ring and slows down due to friction. Since the case is the one pushing the bolt back, slowing down the backwards movement of the empty case also delays the bolt motion correspondingly

[Maccab]

Well, you learn something every day 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowback_(firearms)#Chamber-ring_delayed

[cfsharry]

Joe,
Never knew what 'delayed blowback' really meant. Thanks for the explanation. Opportunities to learn from fellow forum member is always appreciated.
By the by, do you know what skunk crap looks like?

[OV-1D]

Chamber Ring Delayed



here is a  detailed explanation (not mine)
When a metallic cartridge is fired, the cartridge case expands slightly and seals off that side of the chamber and prevents gas escaping that way. Therefore, in all breechloading guns, the diameter of the firing chamber is slightly larger than the unfired cartridge case's diameter, so that the cartridges are easier to load. In a chamber ring delayed action, the back of the firing chamber has a ring around it on the inside, which makes the front of the firing chamber have a slightly larger diameter than the back of the chamber. So when the cartridge is fired, it expands to fill the chamber. However, since the front of the chamber has wider diameter, the front of the cartridge expands more than the back. Now when the cartridge is being pushed backwards by the expanding gases, the front of the empty case, which is now expanded to a larger diameter, rubs against the ring and slows down due to friction. Since the case is the one pushing the bolt back, slowing down the backwards movement of the empty case also delays the bolt motion correspondingly

  This is the main reason why brass should be used for reloading after only a few times before it is unwise to reload again , weakened and thinned material and after trimming too short .

[heyjoe]

Joe,
Never knew what 'delayed blowback' really meant. Thanks for the explanation. Opportunities to learn from fellow forum member is always appreciated.
By the by, do you know what skunk crap looks like?

[MR_22]

I'll give my standard answer to questions like this: when in doubt, buy them both. If you need to, you can always sell one of them later, but hopefully it doesn't come to that and you'll end up with TWO GUNS! Rarely have I sold a gun for a loss, so getting them both is probably a sound investment anyway.

[boone123]

CF-
Some things just never change. Skunk crap today looks the same as it did when I was a kid running loose on a farm.
I also see a skunk sometimes when I go out to that spot to shoot, and I have sat in the truck and watched one a couple of times.
Didn't feel like stirring up a stink, so left them alone. Who else do you know that can sit in a truck with a 32 in each hand and watch  skunks go by? Life is good!

[TwoGunJayne]

Who else do you know that can sit in a truck with a 32 in each hand and watch  skunks go by? Life is good!

Thanks for the reminder. I need to do this more often. .32 Skorpion in one hand and .32 Guardian in the other (for backup!)

[Teddydogno1]

NAA has some custom work they can do on your Guardian.  I want to do the carry/melt package where the remove the sights and round all of the corners.  They also offer polishing, frame checkering and extra slide serrations.

Rob

If you want to make it more like the Seecamp why not just buy a Seecamp in the first place? I wanted the meltdown but with the shipping the cost was far too much. I finally found one on consignment that was already melted & only cost about what the meltdown & shipping would cost.
I would be hard pressed to call the bumps on the slide "sights". Seecamp got it right to begin with. Maybe a small front sight but that is all that is needed.

I like my Guardian, mostly, and have owned it since 1999.  I paid about $300 according to my notes.  I was just thinking that the package would make it "more better" and a wee bit lighter.

rob

[cfsharry]

Boone, Joe,
Many thanks for sharing your knowledge about skunk poo. You are both now in my contact list under the heading "Crap Experts".
Joe, if we ever meet, don't feel slighted if I don't shake your hand.

[boone123]

One of the out of town gun stores I stop at had a guy working there that told other customers I was a crap shooter.
I did shoot a little crap this morning.