Refinish .22 Mag

[red14]

Welcome to the forum, Natchez.

   

   A keyhole is when the bullet tumbles, not go straight.

[chopprs]

Yes, and gets it's name from the shape of the hole that it makes in the paper target. Not a round hole but irregular shaped. Sometimes the shape of a keyhole.

[natchez]

Thanks, I can picture an oblong hole. That is what happens once in a while when I shoot my 22 mag mini. Do you think it is all revolver related, or can it occur from poor technique like dipping the barrel on firing or flinching?

[lashlarue]

On a recent outing ,my 22mag keyholed the last shot rifling on these little guns is very shallow,mine was copper fouled, a good cleaning and all is well.Next time I'll run a brush down the barrel every 10-15 shots.

[natchez]

Thanks for the tip.

[sirbarkalot]

Natchez:

   

   Keyholing is a problem within the barrel and/or ammunition.  That is to say, you cannot cause it

   by flinching or anything like that.  If you flinch, a nice clean round hole should appear in your target but in the wrong place.  If the bullet it tumbling, it is mechanical problem of some sort..........

   

   Barky

[coinchop]

I have a Black Widow that when I got it would shoot pretty good at close range but at longer range the bullets seemed to loose their way. This is in 22 cal. Unlike Gooeysmokes gun, my gun barrel was not deformed. What it had was a poor crown. I recrowned it and took it out and shot it at a hole in a dirt bank at 100 yards plus. I shoot that gun lefthanded out the truck window with my elbow resting on the window sill. The best I could do was only get 3 or 4 bullets into that 8 in. hole out of 5 shots but the rest were close enough so I knew it was my shooting if I missed. The more I shot it the worse I got. I am talking after over 100 rounds. It went back to throwing bullets where ever it felt like. Up till today when I started shooting it I had shot over 200 rounds through it. I have never belived that a dirty barrel was causing it to throw [keyhole] bullets. I always felt that the buildup of hard burnt poweder and lead and whatever else builds up on the end of the bore especially on a short barrel, was making the bullet exit the bore with the same effect as a bad crown. If the bullet leaves the bore and the crown isn't even, the pressure behind the bullet does  an uneven thrust on the base of the bullet  as it leaves the bore and will tilt it.  The crown has to be even all the way around. Today I went out in the country  with A 22 Henry rifle, a 63 Smith, and my Black Widow. I was shooting dirt clods sticking out of the snow so I could see where all the bullets hit. After killing a couple of hundred black clods sticking out of the snow with the Smith and the rifle I got the  BW out. I started shooting at a dirt clod out past 100 yards. Long way for a BW. I shot 50-60 rounds at that dirt. Sometimes I hit it[RARE], some times I was close  and some times [alot] the bullet went off to another farm. To prove my point to myself I took A 22 bullet because thats all I had and stuck the lead bullet in the end of the bore and twisted it back and forth and knocked all that crap off the crown. I shot the gun about 30 times after that till it got dark and no more flyers. If I missed or wasn't close I knew I was me and my shooting.

   I know I should clean my Black Widow more often than I do but I wanted to know if I was right about the buildup on the crown causing flyers and now I know.  

   I am not going to tell anybody else this will fix their gun, but it worked for me. I know if I had cleaned my gun it would have done the same fix. I just had to prov to myself that in my case that it was the buildup at the muzzle. I think some of those little guns have a small crown so the buildup happens fast.

   I have read that you can wear a barrel out cleaning it faster than you will ever wear it out shooting, but I haven't read any thing on short barrels with builtup crap on the muzzle.

   I could have made my point with a lot less words, but than it wouldn't have fit the story side of the forum.

   

   If I had a new clean gun that keyholed the bullets the first thing I would look at would be the crown...

[natchez]

Thanks for the detaled and informative information Coinchop. As you can probably tell, I am new at short barrel gun shooting. I will take a good hard look at the crown tonight. Hopefully, the weather will permit some shooting soon :-).

[coinchop]

Natchez>

   If you go shoot like I do you dont't have to worry about the weather. I drive out into the country and until winter gets here I shoot  cow-pies. They are now froze solid as in ice. Now after we have had some snow there are millions of black dirt clods sticking out of the snow on tilled farmland which splatter black dirt out on the snow when you hit them. I find a field where I can park and shoot downwind right out of my pickup window. Its like having a heated shooting shack. I have done this so much I don't know if I can even hit anything standing up. Its OK to do that where I live if the truck isn't moving.

   It allowes me to shoot all winter.

   Sunday when I was out shooting a Henry 22 and a Ruger Bearcat and A BW, a game warden stopped and checked on me. Told him I was shooting dirt clods. I don't think he was sure if he should belive me. He tried to look in my truck and all he saw was a lot of shells on the floor from the rifle. He asked me if I had a hunting license and I said no. I asked him if I needed A license to shoot dirt and he said no. He stood out there in the wind for a long time talking to me but got so cold he had to leave. In all the years that I have gone out in the country shooting thats the first time the law has checked on me. Once in a while a farmer will stop to check on me to see if Ineed help even though they know what I am doing, just so I know they are around. Most of the time I feel like I have access to the biggest shooting range in the whole country and its great. If its legal to do this where you live and there is room, you will never go back to waiting for a nice day to shoot.

[natchez]

Thanx Coinchop; I will go shoot tomorrow. You are right; the heck with the weather and the wife :-).

[justme]

Coinchop, do you think my 1 1/8" mini will stabilize 50 grain WMR bullets? I had to send it back to NAA before I got a chance to try them. It should be ready to come home today or tomorrow.

    I've had several of these guns, but you seem to actually shoot yours quite a bit.

[coinchop]

Justme>

   I really don't know. I shoot mostly 36 gr. 22LR.  

   and I shoot a lot of them.  

   I would try shooting them and if they don't work try something else. In some guns a heavier bullet won't stabilize with the standrad twist in a barrel. Also you don't have much barrel to get that bullet spinning.

   Good Luck.

[chopprs]

http://www.break.com/games/tiger-woods-wife-outrun.html">http://www.break.com/games/tiger-woods-wife-outrun.html

[natchez]

Yes, it is very, very funny. Sad, that someone with so much would seem to need to seek more.

[Moderndayedison]

That's funny, it just shows that super

   celebs are people too. When your wife

   gets to stuck up and drunk on being

   your wife to actually be your wife.

   

   It's time for some strange.

   

   I had a similar situation but it ended

   in divorce due to religious reasons.

   

   I refused to worship her.

   

   .

[legion]

Watch it to the end.

   

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17RGmGZX7ng">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17RGmGZX7ng

   

   I would. He's armed with a deadly weapon and is capable of injuring me at the very least. I'd be in fear of my life once the first window was smashed and I'd shoot to stop the threat once he made it to my drivers side window.

   

   This is a pretty big discussion on another board with very mixed opinions. I'm curious what others feel.

[bud]

He is dead!

[coinchop]

I would have feared  for my life so I think shooting him would have been justified. Seeing some of the places he was while beating on the car one might have ran over him or pinned him against another car or a barricade

[coinchop]

A couple of weeks ago I pulled into the gas station where I buy gas. I pulled almost up to the front  an older car that was almost in my way. This is mid afternoon. The drivers door is open and the radio is loud. Owner of the car was on the other side of the pumps trying to get at a guy in a silver car. After the guy[BG] pounded on the silver car for awhile that guy unlocked his door and BG pulled him out of silver car and they started fighting. IT stopped after a bit and guy got back in silver car and locked door again. BG goes to his car and gets butcher knife and tries to get guy in silver car. I am sitting there with 6 handguns on my way to the country to shoot but only one was loaded. I can't belive this is real. I am sitting there with truck door open 10 feet from this guy trying to figure out if he doesn't like anybody, or just the guy in silver car. If he can get to the guy in the silver car it appears he will try to kill him. I thought for sure if BG got into silver car I would be forced to draw my gun and maybe use it. As it turned out  guy in silver car took off and BG got in his car and backed up and got around me and cut silver car of at corner to highway. He jumped out with knife and tried to get the guy again but guy in silver car might have got the knife. As he took of and BG went back to his car I didn't see the knife. BG took off chasing him and I called 911. I was releaved that I was out of the middle of that mess. I went out and shot for a couple of hours  and when I got back BG was in jail. An hour after they left the station the BG had went home and got a gun and went back where the other guy lived, stopped in the street and when the guy came out of his apt. BG shot him in both legs. The law got him right away. These guys knew each other and this whole thing was over a cell phone bill, Neither one was from the U.S.  

   

   I guess I am lucky because it didn't reach the point where I had to pull my gun out to maybe save a life. Or take one. If they had stayed at the station I think it would have reached that point. It would be pretty hard to not get involved in a deal like that if it came to it.

[glockman23]

I'd draw on him for sure.  One step forward with that tire iron and I'd light his ass up.

   

   Coinchop- what was the one gun you had loaded?

[tranquilo]

Coinchop, first thing I would have done is get my loaded gun in hand while calling the police to get there ASAP.  If the situation between the two looked one sided and someone was about to be killed - from a secure position I would point the gun and order both to stop the insanity and advise them that the police were on the way.  I would not fire the gun unless I became a target of attack.

   

   Legion, if someone smashed one of the windows in my car I would be justified in my state to take lethal action to protect my life.

[coinchop]

Glockman>

   Pug, in my belt holster right under my hand.

   

   Tranquilo>

   If BG had broken out the window of silver car I was right there. When I pulled in there and saw what was going on once I figured out this was for real I didn't call 911 as quick as I should have thinking that the station attendents or the people around there with cell phones already had. This is not the kind of thing you ever see in the area that I live in. Most disagreements around here at the worst turn into 15 second shoving matches.  

   If  the BG had knocked the car window out with knife in hand I would have been involved...

[glockman23]

I think you did the right thing, not calling 911 right away.  If a potentially lethal weapon was involved (the knife) you may have had to take action right away, not be on the phone.  Let one of the unarmed sheep call 911.

   

   Kudos on being armed when it counted- you could have saved a guys life

[legion]

Thanks for chiming in.

   

   I'd link to the discussion at the other board but it's a paid member area.

   

   Most are talking about the legalities involved with all of their choices, which is good, but many of the legal questions probably won't be crossing their minds if it were to happen to them.

   

   Of those that commented what they'd personally do, the majority said they wouldn't shoot. It's just a vehicle and they'd try to run the guy over.

   

   Two thought the video was funny.

   

   

   Only 4 out of 75 or so members said they'd shoot because they'd believe their life was in danger.

   

   Interesting considering it's a discussion at a firearms forum. It's also interesting to see that quite a few responsible, well trained, long time members may choose to hesitate in a life threatening situation. Based on their discussions it appears many may hesitate because of the legalities of using deadly force.

   

   Again discussing these scenarios are great and I respect everyone's opinions, but when asked to watch the video a few times and answer yes or no to the direct question, "would you shoot." The majority said "no."  

   

   Now if I were a close bystander watching it happen I doubt if I could shoot. It's sad to say but even if the lady had been removed from the vehicle and hit with the weapon, I'd have to think real hard before shooting. I've read to many stories of people thinking they're protecting another only to have it backfire on them. Even the police run into this quite frequently.

[glockman23]

4 out of 75?!  Why the hell do people carry guns anyway?  If that's not a situation to pull your weapon what are you waiting for?  Are you supposed to let that crackhead decide if he wants to bean you in the head and spend the rest of your life wearing a helmet with a drool-cup attachment?  I've seen closed head injuries in my line of work- no thanks.

   

   Now if I was the bystander I'd be screaming at him and calling 911.  

   

   Unless he had the lady out of the car and was bashing her brains out.  Then he'd probably get shot.

[mgkdrgn]

1) he's beating on metal and glass ... making no move to beat on people.  He starts beating on people ... bang.

   

   2) if the people in the car don't have the cajones to run is sorry a$$ over, I'm not going to do their job for them.  maybe they want their car remodeled ... how do I know?

   

   3) I would be on 911 and keeping an eye on him

[Uncle_Lee]

I have a "Personal Protection" permit and that is the way I have always intended to use it. If me or one I care about is in danger, I will act.  

   

   I am not Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, or John Wayne. If two Joe Blow strangers are whacking each other up, I am going to drink a coke and eat popcorn.  

   

   If a carjacker is hitting on a mother and children, then that would be something different.  

   

   But just idiots whacking and cutting each other can go at it.

[red14]

"I have a "Personal Protection" permit and that is the way I have always intended to use it. If me or one I care about is in danger, I will act.  

   I am not Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, or John Wayne. If two Joe Blow strangers are whacking each other up, I am going to drink a coke and eat popcorn.  

   If a carjacker is hitting on a mother and children, then that would be something different.  

   But just idiots whacking and cutting each other can go at it."

   

   That is how I see it.  The 'two guys', might just help us out, by thinning the gene pool.

[glockman23]

"I am not Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, or John Wayne. If two Joe Blow strangers are whacking each other up, I am going to drink a coke and eat popcorn."

   

   And yet there's that picture of a little boy wearing a cowboy outfit.  You perhaps?

   

   LoL

   

   priceless...

[Uncle_Lee]

Yep, me at age 7, spring 1949.

   In my dreams at that age there were heros.  

   In reality now there are none.

[glockman23]

Wow, that's bleak.  I think there are heroes, but different than the ones of childhood.  They tend to look more like ordinary people to me now.  Then again, I'm still young.  Perhaps I'll grow more jaded as I grow older.

[Uncle_Lee]

I don't think it is bleak or jaded. Reality. I just don't have any heros.  

   No one is going to right the wrongs done today.

   That was just a dream like Santa Clause.  

   The only way it can be done is for everyone to stand together against evil and defeat it.

[paulgl26]

no need to shoot him just run him over

[gary]

Concerning hero's mine as a young child were the  

   troops who fought in WWII. Today they still are my

   most admired hero's but I now have the sad reality

   that we are losing that generation quickly and at a

   time again where we need them to straighten out the

   mess we're in.

[emperor]

Uncle Lee, I think you are just not looking in the right place for your heros. Iraq and Afganistan have a lot of our heros fighting for us every day.