Lubricants & Solvents

[blue_heron]

Here is a link to oil/lubricants I would like to share.
http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Lube/lube.html
Of particular interest to me is the article "In-Depth Details on Various Lubricants and Cleaners"

What are your preferred gun oil/lubricants?
What are your preferred gun power/lead/copper solvents?
I prefer Break Free CLP and Hoppes 9 solvent for most things.

[TwoGunJayne]

That's two really good ones.

If I'm doing a quick spray over surfaces when I'm going out into the damp, the RemOil spray is okay. It just doesn't seem to stay there long, though. I don't know if it absorbs or evaporates... or both.

Carb and brake cleaner cuts some serious grime but will destroy wood finishes and plastic. It tends to leave rubber alone.

Vinegar (or actual ascetic acid) is good for black powder.

Something I've noticed is that if you blast parts with 250 psi shop air, it dramatically cuts cleaning time and you don't use so much solvent.

If it isn't black powder, I often just use a hoppe's bore snake (often dry) to do the bore and call it a day if I'm going to shoot it again soon. I wouldn't do it like that if I were going to put it away for a while.

[swolf]

I very recently heard that Break Free CLP (or equal) is what the military is using to douse firearms to clean/rinse/lube firearms.  I've been using it exclusively for my NAAs and when working on tweaking my 12 ga single shot (reaming/polishing/cleaning/lubing.)  Seems to be very easy and working so far.  Ages ago I worked in a Wild West show and cleaned our .45's and shotguns regularly, and used WD40 to blast the corrosive blank powder, brush, rinse, and lube the guns.  Those horribly abused guns lasted for YEARS that way, with only the occasional replacement of the odd hand or main spring.  Of course the rifling was destroyed with the powder.  But the action stayed solid.  I'm guessing the gentler Break Free is a big step up.  BTW--WD40 never did destroy the wood grips or the blued finish.

[TwoGunJayne]

Some people freak out at WD-40 as a gun cleaner. My father and I used it exclusively for decades once upon a time. Never a problem.

Oh yes, PENETRATING oil is what you DO NOT want to use! Kroil Oil or similar? It lifts the finish off of parts.

That Break Free was good, but expensive for how far a can seemed to go.

[swolf]

We used/abused our Uberti/Colt clone .45's 7 days a week with black powder and corrosive commercial blank loads, and cleaned them maybe twice weekly.   The cleaning was mostly to eliminate the scale buildup inside the barrel that would blast out at our fellow actors on occasion.  Cylinders were not a problem, even though the .45 blanks were relatively short and could have caused plastic and powder residue to hinder loading.  I played cowboy for 4 years, and continued to abuse my .45 after that as well.  I (in my youthful ignorance) fired live rounds through the pitted and abused gun for years.  I can't imagine a firearm being more mishandled--dropped from horseback, rooftop, into muddy puddles, rained on, snowed on, put away wet.  And it worked well every time I pulled the trigger.  SO...I have to seriously doubt the "experts" who claim certain oils and solvents MUST be used (not to mention the whole "cleaning brushes MUST be pulled through ONLY in the direction of bullet travel" nonsense.)  I am lazy and irresponsible, and I find my firearms--with minimal care--tend to survive my abuse quite nicely.

[Goatpacker]

We used/abused our Uberti/Colt clone .45's 7 days a week with black powder and corrosive commercial blank loads, and cleaned them maybe twice weekly.   The cleaning was mostly to eliminate the scale buildup inside the barrel that would blast out at our fellow actors on occasion.  Cylinders were not a problem, even though the .45 blanks were relatively short and could have caused plastic and powder residue to hinder loading.  I played cowboy for 4 years, and continued to abuse my .45 after that as well.  I (in my youthful ignorance) fired live rounds through the pitted and abused gun for years.  I can't imagine a firearm being more mishandled--dropped from horseback, rooftop, into muddy puddles, rained on, snowed on, put away wet.  And it worked well every time I pulled the trigger.  SO...I have to seriously doubt the "experts" who claim certain oils and solvents MUST be used (not to mention the whole "cleaning brushes MUST be pulled through ONLY in the direction of bullet travel" nonsense.)  I am lazy and irresponsible, and I find my firearms--with minimal care--tend to survive my abuse quite nicely.

Sounds like you have a gun that is a true "diehard". Most good quality guns are "diehards". The ones that are made right are built to last and that is the way it should be.

I am a believer about cleaning a gun in the direction of bullet travel. If you clean from the muzzle then there is a risk of damageing the crown and jacking up the accuracy potential of the gun. Of course I do understand that this becomes a non issue for a firearm that is shooting blanks.

[TwoGunJayne]

Thanks again for cool stories, Swolf. I do enjoy your contributions.

[JRobyn]

Damaging the crown on the minis is less risky IMHO because the crowns aren't too precise to start with   Anyway, how can you get a rod into the bore from the breech end on a mini?  Does someone make super-short .22 brushes and tips?

After all the cleaning is done (usually Hoppes for me) I have always really liked a thin wipe down with Birchwood-Casey "Sheath" as a moisture repellant and rust preventer.

- Jay

[TwoGunJayne]

Anyway, how can you get a rod into the bore from the breech end on a mini?  Does someone make super-short .22 brushes and tips?

A "pull through" rope, such as the Hoppe's Bore Snake.

Alternatively, you can use a military boot lace that's knotted "just right."

The ".22 rifle" snakes have a longer brass "drop weight" than ".22 pistol" to get the show started. The rifle snakes have a longer brush section and overall length. You can use the .22 rifle snakes on a NAA Short from the cylinder end of the barrel, but you must likely trim a bit off of the brass drop weight to make it work.

Pull-throughs have been a military standard for a long, long time. Back when dirt was new and wheels were square, some militaries used pull-throughs that were actually made of chain. When the grunts complained that the steel chain pull-throughs were destroying the barrels, they were instructed not to use them so hard.

Unbelievably, some STILL use chains! Pic 1 is a pull through chain for HK91! (I would have thought that hard chains would have gone out in WW1.) Admittedly, they're sleeved in something like aluminum these days, but still! Soft snakes or rope is the way to go. Pic 2 is a proper soft pull through.

http://www.hoppes.com/boresnake/the-boresnake

[Dinadan]

We used/abused our Uberti/Colt clone .45's 7 days a week with black powder and corrosive commercial blank loads, and cleaned them maybe twice weekly.   The cleaning was mostly to eliminate the scale buildup inside the barrel that would blast out at our fellow actors on occasion.  Cylinders were not a problem, even though the .45 blanks were relatively short and could have caused plastic and powder residue to hinder loading.  I played cowboy for 4 years, and continued to abuse my .45 after that as well.  I (in my youthful ignorance) fired live rounds through the pitted and abused gun for years.  I can't imagine a firearm being more mishandled--dropped from horseback, rooftop, into muddy puddles, rained on, snowed on, put away wet.  And it worked well every time I pulled the trigger.  SO...I have to seriously doubt the "experts" who claim certain oils and solvents MUST be used (not to mention the whole "cleaning brushes MUST be pulled through ONLY in the direction of bullet travel" nonsense.)  I am lazy and irresponsible, and I find my firearms--with minimal care--tend to survive my abuse quite nicely.

Great post! I Just this past year I got my first ever black powder gun. After reading some stuff about how to clean it, I really wonder how many fellows back in the nineteenth century did all that cleaning on their revolvers. Maybe the average cowboy's or gold miner's revolver rusted solid after one use; but it is hard for me to believe that they took the gun apart, washed it in hot water, then dried, oiled, and reassembled! These were men who did not even wash themselves!

[OV-1D]

AAAHHHHHH but their gun , those were taken better care of than their women . 

[redhawk4]

There are lots of products out there and I'm sure they all have followers, it's a bit like a "which oil should I use i my Vintage Triumph" debate for many of them, but there are some that are a little different and it's interesting to get feedback on them.

I like Eezox I use it mainly for corrosion protection, it's excellent on blued guns because it dries and means you can "fondle your baby" without getting all oily or leaving fingerprints on it. It works better than some of the other cleaners I have for getting the soot of the front of the cylinder on revolvers. It's supposed to be a top notch cleaner and dries to a dry lubricant film. This is OK for some applications but I wouldn't rely on that for heavy use of firing a lot of rounds. Seems to work fine on my Guardian where I'm not planning on firing too many shots and I don't want to attract dust while carrying or get oil on me. When it goes to the range I check it before hand and usually add a smear of oil for luck.

[RogueTS1]

BALISOL; it does everything best. It has been around forever and will not eat the finish off of anything. Does not gum up. Cleans and lubricates all in one whether super high or super low temperatures.

[blue_heron]

I do French & Indian, Revolutionary War, War of 1812 reenactments; we fire black powder blanks. It is my experience that Ballistol works very well for my flintlocks such as my Brown Bess, Kentucky Long Rifles or fusils.  It works great in conjunction with black powder and muzzleloader bores seasoned with TC Bore Butter. 

[grayelky]

I ran across this about 5 years ago, and have been using it in my gun shop as a lubricant since. Try it, you will like it.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/lubricants101.html

I have yet to find a down side.

Most of the gums that come across my counter have waaaayyyy too much oil on them. If you can see it, there is too much there. The oil will attract dust. Enough dust and you have a paste. Once the paste dries out, you have gunk, which can attract moisture and, well, it just goes downhill from there.

[bud]

I have a retired police officer friend of mine AND another friend that used to be on the pistol team for the army reserves tell me they use Marvel mystery oil on the slides of pistols, and they said it works better than anything they have tried. It is red, comes in a qt.bottle for around $6.95. It is used on car engines,  etc. I bought a bottle of it, but haven't tried it yet.

[OV-1D]

I have a retired police officer friend of mine AND another friend that used to be on the pistol team for the army reserves tell me they use Marvel mystery oil on the slides of pistols, and they said it works better than anything they have tried. It is red, comes in a qt.bottle for around $6.95. It is used on car engines,  etc. I bought a bottle of it, but haven't tried it yet.

  That's one product that has staying power , that's for sure but it is very acidic .

[ikoiko]

Not sure what you mean by "acidic", but it does not contain water, so it has no pH.

[bud]

ov-id,

Your not suppose to drink it!   

[blue_heron]

Marvel Mystery Oil is a compilation of mineral spirits, naphthenic hydrocarbons, and chlorinated hydrocarbons". The chlorination probably means that it's using chlorinated paraffin, which can break down into hydrochloric acid and etch the metal it's supposed to protect.
It is specifically listed in my link under "In-Depth Details on Various Lubricants and Cleaners".

[TwoGunJayne]

Why on earth would someone put that in an engine...? Never used it myself, but I've talked to many who swear by it.

[blue_heron]

Most, if not all of automobile manufacturers do not recommend or endorse any additives to the engine oil in their vehicles such as Marvel Mystery Oil or STP Oil Treatment.

All Automobile Manufacturers list the minimal OEM/SAE standards that modern quality engine oils meet and/or exceed.

I have a friend who uses Mobil-1 0-20WT at $5.00 a quart for all his firearms.

I purchase my Break Free CLP from Amazon at around $58.00 a gallon; WD-40 sells for approximately $22.00 a gallon. I don’t think much of WD.

[OV-1D]

Most, if not all of automobile manufacturers do not recommend or endorse any additives to the engine oil in their vehicles such as Marvel Mystery Oil or STP Oil Treatment.

All Automobile Manufacturers list the minimal OEM/SAE standards that modern quality engine oils meet and/or exceed.

I have a friend who uses Mobil-1 0-20WT at $5.00 a quart.

I purchase my Break Free CLP from Amazon at around $58.00 a gallon; WD-40 sells for approximately $22.00 a gallon. I don't think much of WD.

  With WD-40 whats wrong with mostly fish oil ? ? ? Dangest all around product out there .............in desperate situations you could probably cook with it , great against salt water corrosion on aluminum products .  It was good enough to light lanterns back in 1400, 1500, 1600, 1700, 1800, 1900 hundreds it's good enough for me ( fish oil that is )   

[blue_heron]

It's a myth that it contains fish oil. Most likely it's made with mineral spirits and petroleum distillates. 
The exact formulation is a trade secret and there are many myths attributed to it such as it contains fish oil or that it can cure arthritis. 

If you go to the WD-40 website or fan club, and WD-40 actually has a fan club, it lists it uses and myths.

[OV-1D]

 Dang it Blue heron you ruined it for me now , I'll never cook with it again .

[Goatpacker]

Use at your own risk but WD-40 works great for arthritis!

[redhawk4]

I've always thought Marvel Mystery oil was just some type of ATF sold in snake oil packaging claiming all sorts of Miracle properties - I'm always very suspicious of any product that can be put in your fuel tank, in your engine oil etc. nothing can be that much better than anything else across such a range of different uses and environments.

I think when it comes to lubrication guns are very simple mechanisms and are not operating  under very extreme conditions so just about any oil can probably provide enough lubrication when freshly applied. The problems come from lubricants that will either evaporate, go waxy or go hard like grease can while in storage so when you dig your safe queen out it's gummed up and/or just not lubricated. A while back I commented on how Tetra grease that I had thought highly of, behaved differently because there were guns I'd not fired for a while due to the lack of ammo, and when I did get them out the grease had gone hard and more alarmingly gone brown with what I assume was rust as on brass gun parts it had gone green.

I think synthetic automotive oils, grease and ATF could all provide good lubrication with ability to keep parts lubricated, I'm sure many of the gun oils are designed to not dry out etc. too. I think the longevity of product ot provide lubrication over the long term is more important on firearms than the level of lubrication provided because guns do not have anything like the cycle rates and times that are experienced in many other mechanical devices.

WD40 is a very useful product and has it's place in your array of tools. The biggest drawback is the claimed lubrication properties which seem good when you first spray something and it's wet but a virtually none existent when it's dry. It will also wash away existing lubrication that's on something with it's solvent content. Even on something as mundane as a squeaking  door hinge it will initially work quite well but eventually it dries out and the hinge will be worse than ever as you've removed some of the lubricant that remained from when it was oiled 20 ears ago.. It's water displacing properties are great on black powder guns where water has been used to flush them clean, it really gets that out of the nooks and crannies and is what it was designed for, the WD stands for water displacing or something like it if I remember correctly. Also if you dropped a gun in water having dried it as best you can it would be a good way to make sure you don't have any hiding that will corrode parts later when your back is turned. It would be ideal if your Swimming trunk waterproof holster fails too. Again WD40 is a product, that IMO, claims to be good at too many things, but at least it is good at certain things keeping corrosion at bay being another one of them.

[redhawk4]

Why on earth would someone put that in an engine...? Never used it myself, but I've talked to many who swear by it.

There always seem to be people who will swear a certain product cured all ailments their vehicle had. A lot of people swear by Sea Foam, put it in your tank and your car runs so  much better. I have tried it in several vehicles, never noting the benefits others have enthusiastically told me about. A while back I had a motorcycle engine apart, the valves had a coat of carbon on, removing it is not a job I enjoy even with a powered wire brush. As I had time on my hands I put the valves in a jar of neat Sea Foam to see what would happen during the week until I would be reassembling the motor. Anyway the result was that all the Carbon was still on the valves and every bit as hard as it was when I put them in. As one of it's claims was it cleans your intake valves I was fascinated to know how this could occur when mixed in the fuel when it couldn't do anything when soaked in it neat. Perhaps the heat of a running engine could make some difference, but I'm really dubious about the claims for these products. They probably contain some solvents that might clear some kinds of blockages in the fuel system, but other than that I think there mostly snake oil and the claims are coincidence or wishful thinking on the owners part.

Another thing on Mystery oil that I've read (so it may not be true) is that it uses the same red dye as off road diesel, so if you put it in your diesel tank and get pulled over and have your fuel tested you might be in trouble and have an inadequate explanation. Also interestingly when they did an additive test for diesel fuel because the new Ultra Low Sulphur diesel lacks lubricative properties, when they added Mystery Oil the wear was 40 microns worse than the baseline level of straight diesel, whereas SuperTech Outboard 2 stroke oil TCW3 (which burns of quickly) with the fuel gave a 160 micron improvement and a gain in fuel mileage too. Moral of story is, not everything does what it says on the can.

[blue_heron]

The major purpose to which WD-40 was designed was to displace moisture and it's great for flushing out powder residue etc; it has an almost cult following.

That being said, for its cost there are better lubricants on the market, arthritis aside.

[TwoGunJayne]

A while back I had a motorcycle engine apart, the valves had a coat of carbon on, removing it is not a job I enjoy even with a powered wire brush.

For that, I use fine grey lapping compound, such as Clover. Nothing beats grinding the valve against the valve seat to clean and frost the mating surface. Go too far, though, and you won't seal. Good valves and valve seats have what's called a "3 angle cut." The one in the middle is what you're polishing with the Clover. Poorly sealing valves WILL burn up your cylinder head and cost you a lot of money. A few pennies in lapping compound prevents it. Pouring crap into your oil will never, ever address this situation.

Full disclosure: I'm an antique mechanic and historian.

[redhawk4]

A while back I had a motorcycle engine apart, the valves had a coat of carbon on, removing it is not a job I enjoy even with a powered wire brush.

For that, I use fine grey lapping compound, such as Clover. Nothing beats grinding the valve against the valve seat to clean and frost the mating surface. Go too far, though, and you won't seal. Good valves and valve seats have what's called a "3 angle cut." The one in the middle is what you're polishing with the Clover. Poorly sealing valves WILL burn up your cylinder head and cost you a lot of money. A few pennies in lapping compound prevents it. Pouring crap into your oil will never, ever address this situation.

Full disclosure: I'm an antique mechanic and historian.

It's surprising the difference cleaning, regrinding/lapping valves in an engine that still seem in reasonable condition can make to the performance. I don't mind the lapping the valves part, there's a perverse pleasure in that, it's getting the carbon build up off the upper side of the valve and the stem I dislike, it's always incredibly hard and takes  some time to remove particularly if the engines been running too rich and/or burning oil, because there can be significant build up - and then depending on the motor there can be a lot of valves, so there's a lot of tedious repetition involved. Optimistically, I thought a product claiming to clean your valves as you drive, might at the very least have some effect on softening the carbon making it easier to remove, if they had come out clean, shiny and ready to lap it would have been nirvana, but from what I could see and feel as I removed the carbon the hard way there was absolutely no change whatsoever after days of being soaked, it didn't even penetrate the surface. It never ceases to amaze me as to the unfounded claims people are allowed to advertise for some of these "miracle products".

Full disclosure:  I'm a mechanical engineer who was been rebuilding engines for 40 years.

[bud]

have a Browning auto 5 12ga. magnum shotgun that  would jam when I used 3 in. slugs. Did fine on 3 in. shot shells, but jammed on the 3 in. slugs.  A few years ago I missed getting a Buck because it jammed. I called Browning, and talked to someone at C/S and told them my problem. He put me on hold and got a gunsmith at the factory on the phone, and he ask me if I had fired it very much. I told him no because I used it mainly for deer hunting. He suggested I remove the forearm where you adjust the rings [from 2/34 shells to 3 in shells] and put  a heavy  coat of heavy motor oil on it. I had some 50 weight motor oil, so I used that, and NEVER had a problem after that.The start of each deer season I'd put a coat of 50 weight motor oil on it. Still have the Browning auto 5, and it works great!

[TwoGunJayne]

It's surprising the difference cleaning, regrinding/lapping valves in an engine that still seem in reasonable condition can make to the performance. I don't mind the lapping the valves part, there's a perverse pleasure in that, it's getting the carbon build up off the upper side of the valve and the stem I dislike, it's always incredibly hard and takes  some time to remove particularly if the engines been running too rich and/or burning oil, because there can be significant build up. Optimistically, I thought a product claiming to clean your valves as you drive, might at the very least have some effect on softening the carbon making it easier to remove, if they had come out clean, shiny and ready to lap it would have been nirvana, but from what I could see and feel as I removed the carbon the hard way there was absolutely no change whatsoever after days of being soaked, it didn't even penetrate the surface. It never ceases to amaze me as to the unfounded claims people are allowed to advertise for some of these "miracle products".

Full disclosure:  I'm a mechanical engineer who was been rebuilding engines for 40 years.

I've always felt that it was more of an OCD thing to scrape all of the carbon off of everywhere inside the cylinder head and valves. The primary objective is a smooth, non-pitted, even and frosted appearance all the way around the valve and seat surfaces. Without that, the head is going to "blowtorch" through a gap in a poorly sealing valve. If your valve guides are worn or slipped, a session of valve lapping reveals this.

To get the carbon off, I've got a preference for a "wire cup brush" chucked into a cordless drill. If that doesn't get things started, a bit of fine work with a hardened steel sharp-edged block or carbide scribe seems to flake the big scales off.

Yeah. We're talking engines.

He suggested I remove the forearm where you adjust the rings [from 2/34 shells to 3 in shells] and put  a heavy  coat of heavy motor oil on it. I had some 50 weight motor oil, so I used that, and NEVER had a problem after that.The start of each deer season I'd put a coat of 50 weight motor oil on it. Still have the Browning auto 5, and it works great!

Oh yes. It isn't a lot of grease or oil, but a little bit in just the right place. It's like how the faintest smear of grease can stop a cheap nitrile engine seal from squealing. Viton seals and bushings are where it's at.

[redhawk4]

have a Browning auto 5 12ga. magnum shotgun that  would jam when I used 3 in. slugs. Did fine on 3 in. shot shells, but jammed on the 3 in. slugs.  A few years ago I missed getting a Buck because it jammed. I called Browning, and talked to someone at C/S and told them my problem. He put me on hold and got a gunsmith at the factory on the phone, and he ask me if I had fired it very much. I told him no because I used it mainly for deer hunting. He suggested I remove the forearm where you adjust the rings [from 2/34 shells to 3 in shells] and put  a heavy  coat of heavy motor oil on it. I had some 50 weight motor oil, so I used that, and NEVER had a problem after that.The start of each deer season I'd put a coat of 50 weight motor oil on it. Still have the Browning auto 5, and it works great!

I think that's a case of what I mentioned earlier, if you don't use a gun much you can find the lubrication missing when you break it out, particularly if it's a light oil that can evaporate and dry out overtime.  If you think of the forces, temperature and speed with which mating surfaces are moving inside an internal combustion engine, it's hard to imagine a harsher environment in which to reduce friction and wear, so engine oil ought to be a great lubricant on any gun, because with the exception of the inside of barrel, there's not a lot going on to "challenge" the oil.  The only other area to watch for is lubricants that become very thick if you shoot in very cold weather and stop the gun cycling, while I've heard of that with greases, I doubt even a 50 weight oil would become so thick that it would impede performance on most guns.

[bud]

Marvel Mystery Oil - Page 2 - Ruger Forum
rugerforum.net/maintenance/18252-marvel-mystery-oil-2.html   Cached
Marvel Mystery Oil. This is a discussion on Marvel Mystery Oil within the Maintenance forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; My uncles and my father had it in ...