Coward to the end

[redhawk4]

As if Mr Loughner's actions were not cowardly enough in his initial act of senseless violence in AZ, it annoys me further that he's pleading not guilty, too much of a coward to own up to it, it appears. A further waste of tax payers money and time and importantly more upset and time until there's any closure for the victims and their families.

   

   When you make a decision to do something in life, you should have the decency to stand up and take the consequences. No doubt he will try and hide behind so insanity defence and there's other legal mumbo jumbo behinds his plea - but if you hadn't noticed already it pisses me off.

   

   http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41231057/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41231057/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts

[lashlarue]

He didn't say anything, his attorney pleaded not guilty on his behalf.

[rjtravel]

His attorney is the one who lacks decency.

[jswi2374]

A defense attorney's job is to force the prosecution to prove "beyond a shadow of a doubt" that the accused is guilty. Be glad they do... it forces the government to be thorough and obey its own rules before imprisoning or executing a person. Out of control governments kill far more people that out of control citizens...  

   That said, the guy is guilty as sin and will (hopefully) be proven so.

[billinpittsburg]

JswI2374 is absolutely correct.  Criminal defense attorneys often do not have an easy job, but it is a very necessary one.

   

   An initial not guilty plea is ALWAYS standard procedure.  It doesn't mean he won't accept a plea bargain later, or be convicted.

[rjtravel]

I do know what defense attys do - for years I was officed with trial attorneys.  Unless he/she is a court appointed atty who is following std protocol it is then his/her decision to represent this monster - and he/she lacks decency.

   Richard

[lohman446]

What bothers me is that we are trying him for the injury to the congresswoman first.  Lets try him for the most grievous crimes first.  While I understand the crimes against her are severe there were FAR MORE grievous crimes committed by this man.

[louiethelump]

I don't know about AZ, but here in Florida, they cannot plead guilty in first degree murder cases..... they have to have a trial.  I think it is an issue to make sure the offender gets an opportunity to a reasonable defense, and does not enter a plea based on emotional issues or from lack of representation, and then there is the issue of appeals...........  Some judge up the line would likely overturn whatever penalty was given, and maybe force a new trial when it is more difficult.........

   

   Anyway, what I am getting at is pleading not guilty is standard in major cases...........  Cannot even get into the guy's mental condition without a trial...............  

   And this one seems as nutty as any......

   

   louie

[mndoug]

Ah, don't get me started!  The matter of his "guilt" is without question.  He was pinned to the ground with his gun still warm.    All this PC crap calling him the "alleged assailant" is what's insane.  He did it.  People saw him.  People stopped him from continuing his rampage.

   

   The question is, "was he out of his mind at the time?"  The answer:  Yes - to the extent that anyone who kills anyone else is "insane" (meaning not in control of themselves, as normal society defines "normal"... meaning, "do not murder others."

   

   So, he was insane.  But, he is still guilty - his advance writings show premeditation.

   

   Lethal injection - the authorized death penalty method in Arizona - is too peaceful and expensive for those who murder.  Why can't they use $2.50 worth of ammo and do it via firing squad (or even better, cut the cost to less than $1.00 by reloading the rounds!)

[louiethelump]

THERE YOU GO!!!!

[mndoug]

Or, they could recruit a big firing squad of members from this board, and we could hit the guy with about two dozen 22LR rounds... at the very least, he'd be in some kind of big-time pain!!!  

[stainless1]

With constitutional carry in AZ. and all those armed, law abiding citizens, it's a pitty no one was there to take him out during or just prior to his rampage.

[grayelky]

My apologies for ranting, but sometimes it is beyond my control:

   

   Dec. 27, 2010 my cousin who, at the time was a Ga. State Trooper, made a traffic stop. The guy fled, Chad caught him when he crashed. The car video clearly shows Chad approach the driver's side, cautiously, stop and head to the other side of the car, via the rear. At some point, the driver, who was the only occupant in the automobile, raised up from the passenger side door, leaned out and fired 3 shots from (later to be discovered) a S&W 9mm semi-automatic hand gun. One round struck Chad in the head. The video clearly shows the a$$hole checking Chad, trying to move the brick mailbox he hit so he could drive off. He was unable to do so. He then got into the patrol car and fled the scene, leaving Chad laying on the ground, still bleeding. He died on the way to the hospital. The car was later found, as was the driver. He was still wearing the same clothes and still had blood on his hands. He claimed he and his girlfriend had gotten in a fight. A witness stepped forward, pointing out where he threw something on the roof of the apartment building. This was later discovered to be the gun he used to murder my cousin, Trooper LeCroy. Ballistics techs later matched it to the bullet recovered from Chad. The Crime Lab matched prints from the gun to the person in custody, whose prints were also in the car that crashed and the Trooper's Patrol car. I am not sure which, but he still had keys in his pocket that matched one of the cars. I have not seen the video. The Command Staff of the Georgia State Patrol, some of whom I know personally, say there is no doubt the person in custody is the same person who is in the video. It is a major tribute to the professionalism of the Atlanta Police Dept, and the Cobb Co. Police Dept (whose officers assisted in locating/arresting Favors) that this scum bag, who is wasting perfectly good air each minute of each day, is still alive. It later came to light the a$$hole was scheduled to appear in court the Monday before he murdered Chad, but for some reason, neglected to show up for his 5th or 6th felony charge this year (sorry, for 2010). It also seems he was out on bond- his signature- promising to show up in court. The Mayor of Atlanta, the Chief of Police and the Prosecuting Attorney for the City of Atlanta wrote an open letter to the Chief Judge in Atlanta, proclaiming the process used for stream lining the release of prisoners was broken, and should be changed immediately. They cited a man who was let out on his own signature in Sept, and went back to the location he was arrested from and stabbed someone to death, and of course, they cited the death of Trooper First Class Chadwick LeCroy.

   

   The attorney who has represented this useless waste of human DNA was quoted to the effect, "I have represented Mr. Favors in several of his cases this year. We have not used the insanity plea yet, and this may just be the case we need to use it." I'll just leave this one alone. I suspect several of you can read my mind.

   

   I did inquire as to the possibility of posting bail for Gregory Favors, but was told I could not. I promised he would not leave the State. Ever. To their credit, the family of this bag of used horse food did apologize to the family, friends and fellow Troopers of the man killed by Gregory. This of course before Favors' attorney got to them and stopped them from making any statements.

   

   It never ceases to amaze nor surprise me how much more urgent it is to deal with people who have threatened or assaulted politicians, than with some one who has only murdered other people. The Arizona case is a perfect example. There were  people killed, yet the case getting the fast track seems to be where he shot a politician. I suppose it is a good thing we do not have a Class system in this country, huh?

   

   Oh Favors? He plead Not Guilty.

   

   I will put my rant in neutral for now. One day I will be okay, it just is not going to be too soon. I am in a better frame of mind than my older son. He and Chad were almost as close as he and my younger son.

[wildtim]

This is why hanging should still be the means of choice.  No resources wasted.

   

   Wither that or break this guy up for the parts.  He loses all rights as a convicted felon right?  society should get his heart, lungs, eyes, liver etc. to use for those who might have a future.

[Dinadan]

Gray - sometimes I just have to stop and remind myself that my anger is hurting me, not the institutions I am angry with. I agree with every point you made.

[grayelky]

Dinadan-

   I hear you, and I do understand.

[cedarview kid]

That's a good point to learn, Dinadan. I had this problem with my last boss, from the job I quit in June. It's been hard letting go of the anger, but it was holding me back. It's not all gone yet, but it's better. (And he helped me land a job I really like.)

[redhawk4]

"Or, they could recruit a big firing squad of members from this board, and we could hit the guy with about two dozen 22LR rounds... "

   

   Use 22's that would just make him even more angry

[Uncle_Lee]

Do it cheap.

   Cut his throat.  

   Not just him.

   All on "death row".

[41magmag41]

Being a former police officer and trooper in KY I personally think all death sentences should be carried out within 90 days.  Enough of sitting on death row for 10 to 15 years and taking up tax payer money.  90 days should be sufficient to file any appeals or new evidence.  Put me down for the firing squad if they want volunteers.

[gonzoman1]

I firmly believe that victims of violent crime should have the option of an active role in the removal of the offending party...Let his family and shift line him up and execute him in the manner in which he took the officers life. Each executuion should be evaluated and conducted in the same manner as the crime in question. There is and should be nothing "gentle" about the death penalty. Im with you 41mag, sign me up. I could even write it off as training...Dig a hole and be done with it.

[bud]

I agree with everything you guys have said here!

   

   I wish the husband of the congresswomen, or the father of the 8 year old girl could have a chance to wipe the SMILE off of that fuc---- Loughner's face!

[grayelky]

I vote for letting Dad have a few hours with him.

[doc_stadig]

There has been several that touched around the truth of what has to take place, and I agree that when convicted, he should be met with the Creator, but one of the things that many of us have done, when we took our oath, whether it be as a military person, a law enforcement officer, or member of the judiciary, was that we would defend our Constitution, and the Bill of Rights, up to, and including, with our lives. As bad as this guy's crimes are, he will still have the right to a trial by his peers, and the burden of truth will be on the state of Arizona, he MUST be considered innocent until he is proven guilty by that jury of his peers.  

   I believe that the system will convict him, but we need to allow him the same rights that we would want for ourselves, had we been there to take him out, we would still have to stand before our 12 peers, in order that we could be found justified.

   When the Bill of Rights is bypassed we have little to keep us from anarchy, and crowd rule.

   just my thoughts

   

   

   Doc

[bud]

If I were the father of that little girl or the husband of the congresswomen, I'd take care of it myself and take MY chances with my peers!!

   

[mrmadhat]

Im sure there are enough people that would volunteer for helping rid the world of Loughner, they could beat him to death with a wiffle bat.  

   

   I think the punishment should fit the crime, if you kill someone violently, you should die violently

[stainless1]

Gray, I am truly sorry for your (and the state of Georga's) loss. I spent 34 years in law enforcement and feel for you. stainless

[westerly1965]

Funny sometimes how we can all have such different views on somethings and yet all have such similar views on other things isn't it?

   

   @ Gray.....for the record I feel that any officer harmed in the line of duty should be taken more seriously then any dam politician and I am so sorry for your loss....

[olgy]

Civilization is good.  But in some ways we have become "too civilized" for the good of good people. There comes a point at which one is not entitled to all the rights and freedoms that society generally confers upon its members.

[jswi2374]

Gray: I am sorry for your loss.  

   Doc: thank you for saying what I fumbled towards earlier. When the government can decide who "deserves" and doesn't "deserve" rights, we all effectively have no rights.  

   Im just a civilian teacher but I take my oath every morning with the kids... its the Pledge of Allegience. Thats enough

[doc_stadig]

Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2011 - 07:52 pm:      

   Jswi, you should not be apologetic about being a teacher, I served to protect The Constitution, the teacher of today is our only and best chance to educate the children. They are the future defenders. They are our country's only hope. It is through them that our leaders are going to come. The teacher of today is far worse off than the teachers of my day.I We were allowed to pray in school, when we were out of line, our teachers were permitted to "influence" us to get back in step, and if we were "influenced" at school, and our parents learned about our attitude adjustment, our parents would reinforce their attitude adjustment with their own adjustments. The teacher today has none of those powers. We learned about those documents, and the Bible, and there was never any discussion about 'the separation of church and state' the first amendment was never intended to prevent people from praying, it was put in place to prevent the 'state' from establishing it's own religion, which is what is happening as we speak. The state has established their own religion of agnosticism. 

   When the documents were drawn up it was after the signers spent 8 hours of prayer and seeking their Creator's input before they would make decisions that would ultimately change history. 

   How dare the ACLU presume to completely circumvent their intent. 

   The 2nd amendment is the weapon that gives true bite to the rest of them. I was glad to defend The Constitution, but your job is much harder, you have to teach our youth that if they don't get back to the basic precepts our form of government, that our country will continue to deteriorate til it is no longer a viable government at all. 

   Your responsibility, as well as ours, is to, once again, make us a truly United States. 

   

   

   Doc

[arizonagunslinger]

This puts me in an odd position, but I'm not one to pander. Loughner should not be tried, and in the event he is, any first year law student should be able to avert prison. I have read his papers, and watched his videos. Loughner suffers from schizophrenia, and is physically incapable of discerning reality. What he did was unconscionable and tragic, but he is not coherent enough to be responsible for his actions. He should be relegated away from society until his illness is controlled. Everything about this story is heartwrenching, but the tragedy didn't start when the shots rang out, it started when one young man's own brain betrayed him.

   

   ArizonaGunslinger

[wildtim]

Fine don't try him he is a danger to society and schizophrenia can't be cured, one .22 cal pill and he will be cured.

[arizonagunslinger]

Fortunately for you I don't take the same stance on stupidity.

   

   ArizonaGunslinger

[grayelky]

Arizonagunslinger-

   It takes a certain amount of "intestinal fortitude" to speak your convictions when you are quite certain they will be very unpopular. I admire that trait. One of my questions is:  What do we do with him once his illness is controlled?

   

   He was cognizant enough to purchase a handgun and ammo. He was aware enough to know it would be a tactical advantage to have 30 round magazines. He had enough control of his senses to plan on going to the gathering where he knew the Congresswoman would be. He was responsible  enough to appear on the correct date and at the appropriate time. For too long a time we have allowed the liberal side of society to over rule logic. We have been conditioned to believe that no one in their "right mind" would do anything so unconscionable and tragic. To do so, they must be mentally sick. Then why are they mentally healthy enough to put together all the steps necessary to commit such a heinous crime? I, for one, cannot understand how they can be too mentally unstable to stand trial and be held accountable for their actions, yet function at a high enough level to plan out a quasi-complicated crime and then pull it off.