Sidewinder keyholes

[OV-1D]

  Big difference between boars meat and sows meat I've found anyhow . Boars seem to be taste a lot more gamier and smell more strongly than a sow at least down here in FL.  Grain fed is the best way to flush out the boars undesirable issues but that means penning them up for a good long while before slaughter . All grain fed wild stuff gets much better in time , difference is day and night .  

[TwoGunJayne]

For a Sidewinder with a 1 3/8" barrel that means that a bullet completes only 1/5 of a rotation before it leaves the barrel. I am not a ballistics expert, but that seems like it could be pushing the envelope of reliability. Since most bullets do not tumble out of my Minis, clearly that enough to stabilize most rounds out of most Minis.

Though a mini isn't really supposed to keyhole in the air, I've noticed that a great many rounds seem to tumble AFTER impact. At least that's the gel tests talking. The rounds wouldn't do that if they spin too hard, they would need to penetrate further before tumbling.

Keyholing INSIDE the target is an excellent thing if other characteristics are preventing expansion of a jhp.

...but then again, keyholing in the air reduces accuracy and initial penetration.

[TwoGunJayne]

  Big difference between boars meat and sows meat I've found anyhow . Boars seem to be taste a lot more gamier and smell more strongly than a sow at least down here in FL.  Grain fed is the best way to flush out the boars undesirable issues but that means penning them up for a good long while before slaughter . All grain fed wild stuff gets much better in time , difference is day and night .

The old pig men I've talked to say you should castrate an eater before puberty, but then that's farming... not hunting. I worked in a store that sold equipment to do that.

[Goatpacker]

I always just go by the rule that if they smell bad they will taste bad. A lot of the pigs here eat a lot of grain wether it is cattle feed or the corn from our deer feeders. I've had boars that ate good up to 400 lbs but have had some that didn't at 200 lbs.

[Goatpacker]

Dinadan has, as he usually does, given us a really good photo, the bore shot posted earlier in the thread. Far from a great bore.  The rifling appears shallow, at least shallower than my mini and it seems to be roughly cut compared to mine.  Is this typical of newer guns?

Agreed that this is an excellent photo. The grooves and lands seem to be sufficient to do there job in my opinion, but the bore appeasers to be rough. A rough bore fouls quicker than one that is smooth. I have a Shilen barrel on one of my rifles that was lapped. It has no machine marks whatsoever ever and never needs a brush pushed through it, a patch with solvent is all that is needed. Typically barrels that have bores not so smooth do not shoot well when they are spotless, therefore a few "fouling" shots are taken before going for accuracy.

[TwoGunJayne]

I agree, that barrel does look a touch rough, but it's possible to take lapping and polishing too far. Also, if the rifling looks "deep enough," yet is oversized relative to the bullet then this causes other issues. Hollow base bullets can mitigate this to a degree, as they'll size to the barrel wall like the skirt on a diabolo pellet gun.

It's like the very controversial bullet slick coatings: if the application and product actually DID reduce friction in the barrel by a sizeable amount, then velocity of the projectile must decrease if no other variable is altered. To coat the bullet or polish the bore is not enough by itself, but they do enable hotter loadings. Yet another balancing act... The people who say molycoating bullets is snake oil didn't look at the total package: barrel friction, burn rates and pressure curves, complete burn cycle versus incomplete, and so on. If you treat bullets and bore for reduced friction, hotter powder must be used... unless you don't mind losing velocity. Really, it's mostly consistency that usually matters for long range stuff, though flat-shooting does help with a reduced target lead. Not much point to all this in a normal pistol.

Less friction = less back pressure = a change in the burning characteristics of the powder. It almost always drops the chamber pressure down as powder burns much more quickly under confinement and just goes "poof" on the ground. It's the same reason a poor crimp on a handloaded shotgun shell will yield reduced velocity and possibly unburned powder left in the chamber and barrel... a "blooper" load.

The best lapping jobs I've seen gave a somewhat frosted appearance, not bright mirror shiny. Unfortunately, since we can't handload .22 rimfire, a mirror bore might not be optimal... all other things being equal. Chrome-lined bores are a slightly different game.

Some say that residual oil in an otherwise clean bore accounts for erratic velocity before the "fouling shots" are complete. Ironically, oil in the action is exactly what you want for a well-built pellet rifle. Junk can't handle the dieseling.

[cfsharry]

Shilen makes great barrels.  Have a 6.5 Grendel with a mid weight Shilen and it is a shooter.  Holds 1/2 MOA all day.  What rifle is yours?
Perhaps you are right on the rifling but to my eyes it is shallow.  That along with the roughness of the grooves would lead to rapid fouling and create the equivalent of a shot out bore.

[Goatpacker]

I would not attempt to lap the barrel in the pic because the grooves and lands appear sufficient but marginal.

[Goatpacker]

Shilen makes great barrels.  Have a 6.5 Grendel with a mid weight Shilen and it is a shooter.  Holds 1/2 MOA all day.  What rifle is yours?
Perhaps you are right on the rifling but to my eyes it is shallow.  That along with the roughness of the grooves would lead to rapid fouling and create a the equivalent of a shot out bore.

Mine is on a rifle that is close to a M40 A1 sniper rifle, but 26"  on a long action chambered for 30-06! And yes 1/2" groups all day. The best measured is .23" looks like a tiny three leaf clover shot at 100 yards.
No one in their right mind would expect target accuracy from a mini but I believe in wringing out as much as possible from all my weapons wether it is a rifle, handgun, air gun, bow, or even a blowgun.

[TwoGunJayne]

Shilen makes great barrels.  Have a 6.5 Grendel with a mid weight Shilen and it is a shooter.  Holds 1/2 MOA all day.  What rifle is yours?
Perhaps you are right on the rifling but to my eyes it is shallow.  That along with the roughness of the grooves would lead to rapid fouling and create a the equivalent of a shot out bore.

Encore stainless pistol, .30-30. Crap factory barrel, lucky to hold 2 minutes from a rest, more like 4+. My groups are erratic as my hands shake a bit, and long range pistol never really was my forte. I really don't like that barrel. It'll have to do whilst I save my pennies for a Match Grade Machine works stainless ported 12" 7mm-08 with 6-point scope mounts, going to sell the .30-30 barrel then. I've already got the loading stuff for the 7mm, but not .30-30 so I can't really max out accuracy. Old Mike says if you don't handload, you're not getting the gun's true potential due to various headspacing variations in different makes of factory cartridges. He seems to think unless you're using fire formed brass in the same chamber, you'll never get maximum accuracy. He says a lot of things. He seems a smart man and his site is a great read. It's food for thought and I like to think. I really think he's a bit obsessed, though.

With the .30-30 pistol, I can't hit the broad side of a barn without shooting sticks or a good rest. Standing off-hand is no good for me. Then again, it's basically a super magnum pistol and we're talking 100+ yards. Kinda hurts. Once I move to the 7mm, it'll be reduced loads for me.

Too many irons in the fire, plus working on a big remodeling project. My air conditioner caught on fire, on and on. My wallet is pulled in too many ways at once right now. Been wanting that 7mm MGM barrel for well over a year now, haven't had the spare scratch to plunk down the Benjamins. That isn't even counting the 3 or 4 "toy" barrels I want.

I'll finally have my "pocket deer rifle" one of these days. Yes, a mini. It'll be a nice companion to my AR-7 and NAA Hogleg. I really don't like the factory 15" .30-30, maybe I've got a bad one. One thing is certain: I need those headspacing tools and a far better mike than what I've got for OAL measurements and experiments. It's actually a daunting amount of work, but that sounds fun. I've got 80 Federal brass, plenty of powder, primers, and projectiles. It's going to take a whole lot of experimentation, apparently more so than with the long gun versions of the Encore and Contender.

[cfsharry]

GP,
Sounds like a custom build.  You do the build or hire the job out?  Heavy gun?  Scope?

[Goatpacker]

I build most myself, did let Shilen install the barrel and blueprint the action. Built that one about 12 yrs ago and it wears a Burris 6x24 power electro dot scope. Yes it is a heavy gun at 12 lbs, great for the bench or a beanfield hunting rifle from a blind. It inspired the next rifle I built to be a lightweight backpacking rifle. It's a Remmy model 7 chambered 300 SAUM that only weighs 6.45 lbs with scope, rings, sling, and mag full of ammo. That rifle weighed 6.95 lbs naked out of the box with nothing on it. I called it the "stripped mule" for the zebra stripped camo job and the way that thing kicks. It is a 3/4" gun in itself and wears the stock barrel.

[cfsharry]

GP,
Cool trick getting the model 7 to lighten up by adding stuff to it! 
Not familiar with the 300 SAUM cartridge.  Have read about the 300 Whisper and the 300 Blackout, both designed for suppressed usage but not the SAUM.
Surprised you don't have a wee bit stronger glass on the 06 as it can reach out there pretty good.

[Goatpacker]

As far as glass on the 06, 24 power is pretty high, high enough you can see your heartbeat through the scope. Most snipers use only 10x, the benchrest shooters use a 32x. The 300 SAUM which stands for Short Action Ultra Mag was Remington's attempt to answer Winchesters new line of WSM (Winchester Short Mag) Remington made the 30 cal 300 and a 7mm version as well. Ballisticly very close but the win has a slight edge. Me I'm a Remington man and went with the 300 SAUM. Remington was a day late and a dollar short on the new chamberings and Winchester ran off with it. You can still get the ammo but unless you go custom from like hornady then you options are very limited. The WSM's are very popular and abundant with lots of flavors in the factory ammo market. So much so than Remington "took their hat off" to Winchester and now chamber their rifles for the WSM line of cartridges.
Just realized that maybe when I was talking about that scope I did not state that is was a 6x24 power with a 42 mm objective. You could have been confused that I meant it had a small 6 power fixed scope with 24mm objective!!! Yes that would not do it justice. Mine is variable 6 to 24 power.

[Dinadan]

The photo is my Sidewinder bore. I do not have much keyholing out of it, so even though the rifling is not overly deep, it is deep enough. Regarding the rough machining visible inside the barrel, none of my Minis have a bore as smooth as my Rugers. Whether that affects anything I cannot say. I have tested some ammo by shooting it into books. The recovered rounds show good rifling marks, which I take to mean that the rifling is doing what it is supposed to. Below are Speer Gold Dot rounds fired from my 3" Earl, Black Widow, Sidewinder, and Pug.

[cfsharry]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought, 24mm objective.  Thanks for the clarification.
Got a 5x20x50mm Vortex on the 6.5. Best scope I've ever owned.  Unfortunately the club I shoot at is limited to 200 yds so I've never been able to see what the gun can really do.  Envy your back yard.

[cfsharry]

Dinadan,
Thanks for the pics. Sure does appear that your guns have adequate rifling.
Do you recall seeing posts in the past about shallow rifling some have experienced?  Perhaps I am confused. Happens more often with each passing year.

[Goatpacker]

Dinadan, I don't "sweat" a bore that is a little rough either. This is taken care of after a few shots until it is scrubbed down again. It only effects accuracy by a little for the first clean shot or two. You take some REALLY NICE pics.

[Goatpacker]

Cfsharry, all I can say about Vortex glass (I own a little myself) is that if I had looked through some before hand I would have never spent the money on the Swarovski glass I own. Vortex has some of the best I've seen no matter how much money you spend, and a unconditional warranty for life no matter if you bought it, found it, or stole it can't be beat.

[TwoGunJayne]

I'll check it out, but I'm looking for a long eye relief monocle, similar to what'd be on a Cooper rifle, if you know what I'm saying. Looking into the PGO pod, a threaded twist ring rear mono pod. I think it'd go a long way to tightening me up prone.

I like adjustables, but aren't sure why. Fixed is good, too. Different tools, I suppose.