North Dakota man wins gunfight with NAA .22 Short

[bleak_window]

Just goes to show that having a gun and being willing to use it is more important than the KIND of gun you have.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/North-Dakota-man-ends-robbery-in-3-seconds-has-gunfight-in-his-own-living-room.html

[Goatpacker]

Wow, lots of comments about him needing a bigger gun. When it comes to something like that we all need a bigger gun. But you know what? He used the one he had and the one you have is a heck of a lot better than the one you need.

[OV-1D]

 Like some commentator said it beats a sharp stick . I suggest a double action 38 cal and above for the t.v. table and maybe a 45 auto by its side just for my other hand . Myself I would have been by the door as soon as the door got kicked in a 12 gauge with double odd buck would have helped close it again , surprise ,surprise , surprise . Some people have all the luck .  

[Goatpacker]

Sounds to me that if they would have come to your house the police could have been able to apprehend all three of them after they stepped over them to come ask you what happened.

[heyjoe]

sounds like the work of 3 brain surgeons. i dont think they will have to worry about what to do in old age.

[Goatpacker]

One of the biggest questions I have about that whole story is, how many flowers can a town of 182 people really need?

[bleak_window]

Maybe it was a false flag attack so the guy could sell a few "Get Well" bouquets.

[TwoGunJayne]

same goes for the gun in reg 22LR IF and I mean IF loaded with Stingers, but if reg 22 low velocity
rds are used you may as well shoot BBs.......

Sigh.

Typical BB gun, 5 grain steel BB at 400 fps = 2 ft pounds muzzle energy. Even the weakest ammo (Aguila Colibri 20 grain) from a .22 lr NAA mini (6ft lbs) is 3x that. That said, those "pellet rifle emulator rounds" aren't any good for SD either.

Another person who thinks standard velocity ammo is going to bounce off someone's chest like they're Superman.

Winchester Super X 40 grain "standard," NAA .22 LR Mini 1 5/8", 91 ft lbs. 45 times the power of a BB gun. (There's your 45, right there!)
http://naaminis.blogspot.com/2010/09/naa-mini-magnum-ballistics-shootout.html

A 21 grain pellet rifle pellet from a 4" NAA Cap-and-Ball Earl reliably takes small game, no sweat. It's about as powerful as my .22 pellet gun.

91 ft-lbs is over 3x more powerful than my .22 pellet rifle, which still kills stuff. People have gone down to pellet rifles before. 2 ft lbs? BB Gun? SEROUSLY? It isn't CCI Stingers or nothing, though those are some of the best rounds. CCI Maxi-mag +V has done slightly worse in some tests from a short barrel as it's nominally formulated for rifles, not super shorties. It's still 40-something times the power of a BB gun!

Ahh, the simple pleasures of being an "Internet Armchair Expert." I get it. It was just hyperbole on the part of the poster. It gets a bit tiresome, though.

"You'll shoot yer eye out, kid!"

[JES14352]

I'm just glad to hear that despite being shot the home owner will be ok....

[TwoGunJayne]

I'm happy for that. I'm also happy that they caught one of the perps with a slug still in his back and the .38 with empties still in it. That's a "red-handed smoking gun" right there. It's going to take a clerical or judicial error to keep that guy from serious time.

[RogueTS1]

I find it strange that a man living in North Dakota does not have a shotgun or some kind of hunting rifle. Anyways; good for him. Way to clean house!

[top dog]

Roguets1,
He probably did have a shotgun and/or rifle in the house but the 22 short mini was what he had on him at the time.
I am glad that his injuries were not too serious and that he will recover.

I also found it quite interesting that the article gave a lot of attention to record of the perpetrator.

In my state,they would have pretty much jailed the homeowner and released the perpetrator on his promise to appear and that is in light of a terrible home invasion that took place several years ago where three women were killed/set on fire.

The two perpetrators had been on parole when they did this.

                                                                                                                 Top Dog

[RogueTS1]

The story states he watched as a car with people he did not know pulled into his drive, sat there, emptied out, knocked on hid door which he did not answer, backed up to the door and two of them forced open his door. Sounds to me like he had plenty of time to get whatever gun he wanted to make the confrontation. Story ends with, "He also plans to get himself a bigger gun and more bullets."

Still sounds to me like a North Dakota man that does not have a shotgun or some kind of hunting rifle.

[Kevin55]

All the old clichés.

A rifle when you know you will be in a shootout, a handgun when you might get in a shootout. This is why the army issues rifles to enlisted men and handguns to senior staff at HQ.

A bullet shot into the bad guys chest is better than a 45 sailing over his shoulder.

A 22 in your pocket is better than a 45 in your dresser drawer.

[Kevin55]

Sounds like a home invasion looking for drugs.  Either they had the wrong address or someone spread a rumor the local flower shop guy was shipping "pick me up bouquets" with more than flowers.

A local retired deputy had a home invasion.  Wrong house.  The deputy had handguns stashed in every room.  He asked to use the toilet and came out blasting, hitting the othe guy 3 times.  The invader shot the retired deputy in the face, the invader took the revolver from him and tried to finish him, but all 5 shots were fired.  The invader tried to say he accidentally shot himself when he was found miles away.  Google Greenbrae Deputy shooting for details.  Moral. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.  Or guns in one spot.

[Kevin55]

I've never heard a NAA 22mag shot, but the noise from a AMT automag In 22mag was deafening at an outdoor range. I figure if someone shoots a 22mag indoors, the sound and muzzle flash will deafen and blind everyone.  Time to go unless, you're really set on the home invasion.

[redhawk4]

I think this goes to show that generally people are scared of any gun and will most times retreat when they see it deployed.

I do find some fault with the homeowners actions, given the idea is to avoid getting into a shoot out at all cost - he was hit 3 times with a 38 special and therefore very lucky to be alive. Had the 3 bullets struck him somewhere else it would have been a different story.

His scenario is a good one to consider for ourselves and our homes, what would we have done? I'm not sure I have the answer yet, still thinking it through given the position and design of my home. Certainly having realized something might be going down, I would be beating a path to my gun safe and more suitable firepower to go up against 3 people and in doing so I would have been taking up a barricade position at the top of the stairs, to give me the best tactical advantage if they did kick my front door in, but I can't help wondering if the guys had seen someone was home, would they have just gone elsewhere?. Other than going out onto your front porch 12 gauge/AR15 or something in hand (not a good idea tactically) I'm not sure how you'd get that message over.

[TwoGunJayne]

Rifles and shotguns are cumbersome. I don't feel it's a good idea to leave them loaded and unattended in one's house, stashed or not... unless you've got some James Bond-esque sliding panels or what not.

I keep a full size .40 handy with a spare mag. Try as I might, I just can't fit that full size 12 gauge into a socially acceptable backpack. The advantage of being all girly is that you get something like one of those KelTec folding carbines in your giant "hand bag." Oh well, it fits my back pack too.

As far as what I can keep on me at all times, the largest I can seem to put up with without having a special outfit is no bigger than a compact .380. I carry my Guardian all the time, or else my Black Widow. Maybe both? Mathematically, there are far better choices as far as muzzle energy. Strategically and "tactically," if you can't whip it up and fire, you've got nothing but an investment portfolio.

It makes me feel more at ease having a larger option within arm's reach. Don't forget that the whodunits may very well be in your house when you get home. What you have on your person is what counts when it counts. A rifle in your gun safe is all well and good, but it's not in your hand the moment you open the door to your house.

That said, if all I've got is my NAA Short, I'm going to make it work. I think the key to something like that is that they don't see it coming. I can palm a short and I don't have particularly large hands. The fastest draw is the one that was already in your hand; the BG will miss the cue of you digging in a pocket or something.

...and yes. I actually wander around the house holding an NAA Short sometimes. It feels good in the hand.

[Kevin55]

I was in a gun store looking for a magazine extender for my 870 shotgun.  The clerk said, "do you hate your neighbors that much?  If you can't defend your house with 5 shots, shooting up the neighborhood with 8 won't help.". He had a good point.  Plus I have heard of problems with the mag extensions.

One friend said the best place for a truck gun rack is under your bed.

I don't have children in my house. (under 18).  If I see suspicious people about. I have a glock and mags.

[I]

My state law (ironically) states #6 shot or rim fire for pest control.

Penetration test, much?

# 6 can do some damage under 10 feet. Put it this way, some guy With interpersonal relationship problems took a single pellet to the eye, involving the optic nerve. Critical condition, but he recovered pretty much fully.

The shooter was just "smoke checking" him, figuring that no injury would result from discharging a firearm in city limits. This was even in the news here. Doubt it made even state news.

[top dog]

Yes,I guess the North Dakota resident did have time to get a better weapon,indicating that maybe all he had was the Mini short.

But I will say this,I tip my hat to him and salute him for going toe to toe while being outnumbered and out gunned.

He was NOT outfought though.

As was mentioned in the above replies,perps will run when confronted with determined resistance.

                                                            Top Dog

[grayelky]

Perhaps he needs a sign for his front door:

This door is not locked for my protection. It is locked for YOURS.

Last week, a story ran on the 6:00 PM news about a guy who stabbed his parents to death with a Sumari sword. He also knocked on a neighbor's door, sword in hand, and began asking why she had been talking trash about him around the neighborhood. My question is, What gun would you want if he had knocked on your door with sword in hand?

[top dog]

If I looked outside before opening the door,I would not have opened it to that person.

My choice of weapon for that would be a long gun,probably a 12 gauge.

Best choice would be to not open the door,keep it locked and call the police to let them handle it while I am still armed inside.

And no,I would not take VP Joe Biden's advice by shooting two shots off the balcony or through the door.

                                                                                                           Top Dog

[stantheman86]

Keep in mind not everyone is a "gun person" maybe the only gun he had was a .22 Short mini that he used for occasional carry...

I sometimes keep my .22 LR mini in my pocket around the house, you never know. If I had to use it people would be asking "why didn't he go for his .357?" Maybe you don't have time?

[TwoGunJayne]

Yeah, some people just want to slip a .25 in their back pocket once in a while.

The problem with that is that you don't notice it printing.

[Fireside Mike]

Well I hate that it happened at all but it is proof positive that even in a sleepy town these things do happen.  As far as a bigger gun we all have to add ONLY IF YOU WILL KEEP IT ON YOU.  I am very comfortable with my 22M.  Last summer I slaughtered a hog for roasting with a single 22LR to the head.  My NAA 22M only drops 30 ft lbs from my 22LR rifle and I expect would have been more than enough to make it give up the bacon. 

[Goatpacker]

Well I hate that it happened at all but it is proof positive that even in a sleepy town these things do happen.  As far as a bigger gun we all have to add ONLY IF YOU WILL KEEP IT ON YOU.  I am very comfortable with my 22M.  Last summer I slaughtered a hog for roasting with a single 22LR to the head.  My NAA 22M only drops 30 ft lbs from my 22LR rifle and I expect would have been more than enough to make it give up the bacon.

The little Mag does fine. I like bacon too.

[RogueTS1]

My reply was not so much as to why did he not use a larger caliber gun. It was that I was surprised that a man living in North Dakota did not have a shotgun or rifle simply for the fact that he lives in North Dakota.

[redhawk4]

Well at one time we were getting some death threats from my wife's ex and he supposedly was sending someone to get us. I saw someone coming to the front door, a young African American man, he knocked and then ran back to the sidewalk  looking at the house in a very focused manner, hitting one fist against his open hand in what looked like a threatening stance, like he was ready to draw. It took me a matter of seconds to get from my office downstairs,where I observed this to the bedroom to retrieve my 1911, while instructing my wife and step daughter to not open the front door and to get upstairs.

Turned out to be a false alarm, he was apparently just selling something, by the fact I could see him in the distance way down the street sometime later when I ventured out to see if we had the all clear - by this time certain he hadn't come for us!!.

Who knows if the guy had another gun or not in this story, but if he did he should have gone for it when he first observed suspicious behavior - that's what I did anyway, I wasn't going to face anyone with a Guardian 380 if I didn't have to and also by having family upstairs and access to "heavier equipment" it would have made things a lot easier to defend.

We shouldn't always think of the front door, or other access as where to hold your ground IMO, it certainly can be, if you are ready at the time someone is busting it open and you have the right firepower, otherwise some sort of "barricade" style defense is better, I don't plan on giving anyone the opportunity to shoot me, I'm not looking to exchange gun fire.

[top dog]

RedHawk4,
You handled that situation very well. Obviously you have things planned out which is why the incident remained minor and did not escalate.

John Steinbeck had written that the ultimate weapon is the brain. You used yours.

                                                                                                       Top Dog

[redhawk4]

I guess you could argue a man armed only with a brain, will defeat a man armed with a gun and no brain

I think it definitely pays to have things thought out beforehand then you don't waste valuable seconds thinking about it when you should be taking action. Being aware of circumstances too can buy you valuable time, don't wait to see if someone acting suspiciously is going to do something or is just an innocent passerby, be prepared just in case,that can be as simple as putting your hand in your pocket on the grip of your gun as you walk on a street, or dashing upstairs to get your gun safe open for greater fire power - it's easy enough to "stand down" if it's a false alarm

[TwoGunJayne]

"Emergency Action Plan"

A little food for thought from the CDC. (You know, the Zombie guys.)

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2004-101/emrgact/emrgact.pdf

To be prepared for a ridiculous emergency also means that you're prepared for most of the others.

[redhawk4]

"To be prepared for a ridiculous emergency also means that you're prepared for most of the others."

There's some truth in that like "hope for the best, but plan for the worse"

If you watch movies then the" good guy hero" always seems to notice something is going down, before it does, giving him the edge when the action starts. We don't have his super human powers, the handgun with 200 rounds in the cylinder or magazine, the skills to dodge bullets with impunity, or the ability to get punched full power in the face over 10 times, with no major effect or even any serious bruises later, but being observant and anticipating possible dangers and threats before they can occur gives us mere mortals the greatest advantage to make the best of our limited abilities, IMO.

[Dinadan]

I have to agree others that the North Dakota man showed real fighting spirit. Good for him and I am glad that he survived! I am guessing that he will be buying a bigger gun once his wounds are healed.

Regarding the idea of stashing guns around the house for that type scenario: I am somewhat undecided. I keep one stashed in a concealed location that is too high for a child or a short adult to reach. I have considered stashing a couple of more, but even though it is very unusual for us to have children in the house I do not want any guns where a child could find one.

[OV-1D]

  A 12 guage coach gun acts very well as a coat hanger mounted on the wall next to the front door , never have to use the coat neither .